Marines posed with Nazi SS symbol in Afghanistan

[Valanthe]

But what if you were drawing the Hindu Swastika? I'd be a little scared of drawing the Buddhist swastika if everyone jumped to the conclusion that I was trying to be a racist fuckward. A general rule of thumb is though, curved=Nazi/straight=everything else. But this is a general rule, it's shown to be curved in the past too.

That's a fair point actually that I ought to have elaborated on in my original post, the differences are very clear to someone who knows them, (And uh, straight and curved makes little difference, it's actually the direction the arms point that marks the difference). the reasons I know the difference is because have dealt with so many people who have drawn or displayed a swastika on something, (A proper, Nazi, clockwise, swastika) and when confronted about it, try to sputter out some lame excuse about it being a "Hindu" symbol and not a racist one, which I have to add, coming from some pasty white american kid who has very clearly displayed a lack of interest in different cultures before, is absolutely priceless.

I suppose that example, which happens far more often than I'd like to admit, may have jaded me against honest naivete. Perhaps they are just stupid and ill-informed, and if it were just one or two marines who happened to post it on Facebook, I'd probably believe them. But the fact out of a dozen Marines, plus whomever took the picture, plus whoever was spectating, then out of all the people they would have shown it to, then the -business- who used it on their site, not one person went "Hey, wait a minute..." until somebody blew the whistle on them, and then they come up with this excuse that -reeks- of feeble backpedalling... that just doesn't sit right.

And while I apologize for slamming you with another wall of text, I feel I should chime in on the symbol itself. If these men had used proper Latin S's, then yes, this would in fact be simply a case of someone looking for controversy where there is none, But they used the Double Sig Runes which has only -ever- symbolized the Nazi SS, it was chosen specifically for it's call back to Nordic culture which Hitler believed was the bloodline of his Master Race. So unlike the swastika, and other symbols and gestures, this one leaves no room for misinterpretation.

 

[Nouw]

snip

No need to apologize, that made a very nice read and I understand what you're saying too.

 

[Brad Shepard]

Not the same symbol... but close.

The horizontal lines aren't the same. The German SS has a slant on all of them, those are straight/level.

Spoiler

EDIT: Plus, it sounds like the USMC have been using it since the 80's. Since, you know, it's not like Nazis invented Armanen runes, the Anglo-Saxon Sigel, or the letter S.

*yawns

Wake me up when Thor takes back his swastika...

are you me? because i was going to say something alone this line

 

[Devil's Due]

I'm a big history buff, and even on Nazi Germany. However, I didn't at first think "SS," nor would I have assumed that, since the Marines have used that symbol as the Scout Snipers since the '80s. So what do I think?

I think the media, and people offended by this, are over-reacting morons.

Simple mistake and/or misunderstanding. Nothing more, folks.

EDIT: Since some people are morons, you don't have to know every single symbol in every military force that roamed the Earth to be considered a history buff. I can name you more information on Nazi Germany political structure at the time, the laws enacted, reasons why it became how it did, offensive tactics, etc, but I do not know every single symbol they used. Especially since *gasp* they actually used a lot of symbols, just like a lot of other militaries at the time for each branch and division. If you honestly believe that because I couldn't recognize that symbol at that moment when I first saw the photo, then you're not worth my time. Just sayin'!

 

[Zoe Castillo]

--

 

[Kvaedi]

I'm a big history buff, and even on Nazi Germany. However, I didn't even know that symbol was used for the SS, nor would I have assumed that, since the Marines have used that symbol as the Scout Snipers since the '80s. So what do I think?

I think the media, and people offended by this, are over-reacting morons.

Simple mistake and/or misunderstanding. Nothing more, folks.

How can you be a history buff without ever seeing a symbol of the SS? This would be like claiming to be an expert on science fiction and not knowing an iconic name like Asimov. It just makes no sense at all. I would argue it to be impossible.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Sorry.. hang on..

Spoiler

That's not even English script, it's a 'sig' rune, not the letter 's'.

They did not stitch this flag themselves. Someone must have bought it, and since the only places which sell it are sites devoted to Nazi memorabilia, like the one above, you'd think someone would have had the grey matter to work out what they were buying.

Any Jewish person in Europe, and probably most in America and Israel, has relatives who were murdered by people wearing that symbol. So sorry, yes, there is a story here, even if the story is the mind-blowing stupidity of the US marine corps, (which interestingly is the defence they're going with, says a lot) it's still in the public interest to know. If the people representing my country overseas were morons, I'd sure as hell want to know.

For the record, no, it's not the symbol itself, I fully accept the right of actors, artists and even neo-nazis and racists to use the SS symbol knowingly, but being in the armed forces carries certain responsibilities, one of which is not posing with your nazi memorabilia. It shouldn't be too much to expect that if you don't know what a symbol means or has been used for, you shouldn't pose with it as if you support or identify with it.

 

[Dr. Pepper Unlimited]

Over reaction much? It looks nothing like the freaking Nazi symbol. Good christ the media likes to grasp at straws sometimes...

Looks completely harmless to me. Moving on...

 

[Zen Toombs]

JUST MY OPINION[woops, let me turn off caps lock. why was that on?]

It seems possible that some or all of the participants didn't know what they were actually participating in. At the same time however, I find it hard to believe that is the case. There may be some innocent victims here, but most of them were jerking around.

 

[Astoria]

How could they not know what that meant? I know nearly nothing about WWII and the Nazis and even I know that was one of their symbols. At least one of them had to know.

 

[Arakasi]

Nazis also used an eagle.
Also, a skull/crossbones.

Just saying.

 

[Apollo45]

There's just no good way to interpret this. Either these marines are racist fuckwads (And censors be damned, it's the only superlative that fits) and now they've got the higher ranks -covering- for them. Or they're complete imbeciles for not recognizing the second most famous symbol of the Nazi Party next to the goddamned Swastika as it symbolizes the singularly most feared and loathed arm of the Nazi Empire.

I was under the impression the second most famous symbol of Nazi Germany was the eagle. That and the swastika are the two things that come to mind when I think "Nazi" anyway, and honestly we didn't cover the SS much in our basic history class. We looked at the Nazis and how they rose to power, glossed over the finer details of their military organization, then went into the Holocaust before coming out the other end with D-Day and the end of the war. The only reason I know the SS symbol is because I watch the history channel now and then, and, not to insult these Marines, but the majority of them probably went straight from high school into the service. A basic high school education likely won't cover the SS much.

Am I surprised at least one of them didn't know it? Ya, I am. It is definitely a facepalm moment, but I genuinely don't believe they would use the symbol if they knew what it represented. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I refuse to believe that ten people in a scout sniper unit in a military that fought against the Nazis and still has a rather strong hatred of them would even consider using that if they knew what it meant.

 

[Esotera]

Looks more like the Kiss logo to me...!

And they didn't say they thought it meant that... they said their SS meant sniper scout... Sounds like you have right and truely jumpend on the media over exaggeration already...!

Oh, and my me sticking my middle finger at them I'm not saying Fuck you. No no no.

No, to me it means "Good job boys". Yeah, that's it...

Because symbols have universal meaning, right? I doubt the Marines weren't somehow cognizant of what it may have been tied to, but that is a horrible counter-argument.

Yes, a lot of symbols have universal meaning. Especially ones originating in a WORLD WAR where MARINES fought and DIED. If that symbol isn't known in America, then that's just kinda sad.

Maybe if we stopped funding the military and starting funding education...

I think the point was there isn't anything inherent about it. If a baby was born & wasn't taught about the SS, then the baby wouldn't recognise that this symbol was used by them, just like using a middle finger is offensive in most of the West, and various other gestures in other parts of the world. It seems quite implausible that no-one knew about this, but I suppose there's always someone...

 

[tthor]

How could they not know what that meant? I know nearly nothing about WWII and the Nazis and even I know that was one of their symbols. At least one of them had to know.

In all fairness, I myself didn't know that was the symbol of the SS

but frankly, considering all the other photos of soldiers happily posing with things (humilated prisoners, corpses, horribly gruesome corpses such as a guy who's whole head was blown open, humiliated corpses, etc) frankly, THIS seems like the least offensive of stuff I've seen

 

[rob_simple]

To be fair to the Marines, I'm obsessed with Nazis and I would probably have scanned over that image; like many people said it could just as easily be the logo for a metal band.

For the record OP, while you're busy throwing a hilarious shit fit and tarring all Americans with the same brush (I'm British, by the by) try and remember that THIS is the symbol everyone recognises...

Spoiler

 

[boyvirgo666]

Honest mistake my ass.

This is completely despicable. I like how the defense is 'They're marines, they wouldn't knowingly do that'. What does that even mean? I didn't realize the US military force was now considered to be infallible. I think they should've at least sent out a memo, or something.

I know alot of marines and they are that dumb. Not all marines are that dumb but a lot of them are. Its the army of one mentality and constantly telling them they are the best that breeds that.

 

[Muspelheim]

There's Hitlerites in that most esteemed, shining beacon of humanity of an institution? Well, I don't mind being correct in one of my assumptions for once.

Of course, they could just be thick. Although it seems odd to me that not a single one of that rather large group recognized the symbol and asked themselves if it was the best thing to pose to.

And while the arguement could be made that it's just a symbol, well... Look, I like it too, just like I like swastikas. It's just aestetic geometry. But it's been ruined by one of the most revolting ideologies we've seen in modern times. That sucks, but there's nothing we can do about it. Swaying the public consciousness to not associate it entirely with Nazism is going to take a very, very long time.
Believe me, here in the Nordic countries, Neo-Nazi groups have been trying to steal and taint symbols connected to the ancient Norse heritage for ages. While it's a shame that I'm going to be associated with those tossers if I wear a Mjölnir necklace or some other thing they don't know a shit about but have gone ahead and stolen anyway, that's where we stand. While I'm sure those can be reclaimed and de-nazified, I don't think the SS-insignia or that particular kind of swastika can, at least not in recent time and as easy.

And the delightful people in the US Marines are certainly not helping...

 

[thom_cat_]

Look... As an Officer in the military I have been deployed with guys like this, and you know what... they do stuff like that all the time without knowing! I had to get a guy to recover some folders once because he put pics of Templar Knights all over them, but didn't even think of the imagary, he just liked the pictures...

You got to understand the media put shit spin on all things like that... The story is probably not anything like it says, and it probably is the SS from the Kiss logo.. The Marines probably didn't put the two and two together, that's now that they are trained to do... on the other hand, what they are trained to do they are damn good at! I'd like to see you keep your obviously far superior head while its being fired at...

That's the difference between them and you... it seems obvious to you.. it doesn't to them.

And yes, I would defend this to the bone. The guys fuck-up from time to time, I know that, but it's my job to understand why they do, and to steer them from doing it again! And even though I am not of the same country as these guys, I have worked with them and understand that yes... that can be a naive mistake!

http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/2012/02/10/those-marines-bought-an-ss-flag-without-knowing-what-it-was-seriously-thats-your-excuse/
Yeahno... they knew what they were buying.