Marines posed with Nazi SS symbol in Afghanistan

[3 legged goat]

I didn't even THINK of Kiss... dear god... They must be neo-nazi's.

What I asking was if that Piss thing was making fun of Kiss. Not suggesting that they were nazis.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

I suggest we let people that died decades ago rule all our actions for fear that we might offend someone.

I for one am shocked that so many people on this forum use ponies as their avatars. Don't you know that they look similar to the steppe ponies that the Mongolians rode and used to kill and oppress millions of people for centuries? How could you be so insensitive.

I also throw rocks at anyone who wears a red coat, because how dare they evoke memories of the British oppression of the colonies. The color red should be banned.

 

[3 legged goat]

I suggest we let people that died decades ago rule all our actions for fear that we might offend someone.

I for one am shocked that so many people on this forum use ponies as their avatars. Don't you know that they look similar to the steppe ponies that the Mongolians rode and used to kill and oppress millions of people for centuries? How could you be so insensitive.

I also throw rocks at anyone who wears a red coat, because how dare they evoke memories of the British oppression of the colonies. The color red should be banned.

I for one completely agree.

 

[cdstephens]

Few things.

This particular symbol isn't embedded in American culture as a Nazi symbol (would probably more likely be associated with KISS). The reason the Swastika and the Hitler mustache are is because they've been brought up by popular culture in various forms of media for decades and decades. I myself didn't know that was the symbol of the SS, and personally I don't see how ignorance over one symbol makes an individual stupid, uneducated, despicable, or any combination thereof.

That being said, using such a symbol to promote freedom and democracy seems a bit....blegh. The soldiers themselves are probably victims of circumstance, and really if it's anyone's fault, it's the management's fault for allowing/approving this, not the individual soldiers. But again, it's just something the media is blowing up to massive proportions for no good reason. It's not like it's as offensive as pissing over a dead body or something. For the sake of making our country actually look half-way respectful though, PR should be on top of this shit.

Should they change it? Probably, if they want the military to not look like a bunch of dicks. Should the soldiers in the pictures and the PR department be burned at the stake for this? Probably not....

It's just hard to believe that they collectively decided to use a Nazi symbol, because that's equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I suggest we let people that died decades ago rule all our actions for fear that we might offend someone.

I for one am shocked that so many people on this forum use ponies as their avatars. Don't you know that they look similar to the steppe ponies that the Mongolians rode and used to kill and oppress millions of people for centuries? How could you be so insensitive.

I also throw rocks at anyone who wears a red coat, because how dare they evoke memories of the British oppression of the colonies. The color red should be banned.

Well, if they were photographed holding something as tenuously linked to the SS as your examples then there would be very little dispute, unfortunately (and as was pointed out in the first page I might add) The flag they were holding was an actual replica SS flag seen here purchasable on a Neo-Nazi website:

See the annotation: "A favourite and well known SS flag"

Add to that the gravity of the crimes that the SS performed so recently (there are still living survivors) and yes, you get something that the US army should not be defending it's use in their offical photos, no matter how similar it looks to their own squadrons insignia.

 

[3 legged goat]

I suggest we let people that died decades ago rule all our actions for fear that we might offend someone.

I for one am shocked that so many people on this forum use ponies as their avatars. Don't you know that they look similar to the steppe ponies that the Mongolians rode and used to kill and oppress millions of people for centuries? How could you be so insensitive.

I also throw rocks at anyone who wears a red coat, because how dare they evoke memories of the British oppression of the colonies. The color red should be banned.

Well, if they were photographed holding something as tenuously linked to the SS as your examples then there would be very little dispute, unfortunately (and as was pointed out in the first page I might add) The flag they were holding was an actual replica SS flag seen here purchasable on a Neo-Nazi website:

See the annotation: "A favourite and well known SS flag"

Add to that the gravity of the crimes that the SS performed so recently (there are still living survivors) and yes, you get something that the US army should not be defending it's use in their offical photos, no matter how similar it looks to their own squadrons insignia.

There we go! SS flag. Not a flag they made on base to represent Kiss. It is obviously an SS flag. They might have intended it to mean something else, but it still means that.

 

[3 legged goat]

Few things.

This particular symbol isn't embedded in American culture as a Nazi symbol (would probably more likely be associated with KISS).

Should they change it? Probably, if they want the military to not look like a bunch of dicks. Should the soldiers in the pictures and the PR department be burned at the stake for this? Probably not....

I personally would have never associated it with Kiss seeing as it as just the SS and not the whole thing. And they should should change it for that very reason.

 

[Cakes]

I can confirm that the Marines honestly don't give a shit, oooh that was used 70 years ago by a group that was unpopular!!! Go fuck yourself (and if you disagree any scout/sniper will step into the ring of honor with you)

I feel like "a group that was unpopular" is a bit of an understatement when talking about the SS.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

damn the nazi's runed alot of symbols...
here's a few

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowilo_rune

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

At least they didn't rune the "Ying Yang" or the "Smiley"...

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Few things.

This particular symbol isn't embedded in American culture as a Nazi symbol (would probably more likely be associated with KISS).

Should they change it? Probably, if they want the military to not look like a bunch of dicks. Should the soldiers in the pictures and the PR department be burned at the stake for this? Probably not....

I personally would have never associated it with Kiss seeing as it as just the SS and not the whole thing. And they should should change it for that very reason.

They have... Wow... you don't know when to drop it do you? Did you read the whole article? They were told to drop it, and they have been retaught:

The Corps has used the incident as a training tool to talk to troops about what symbols are acceptable after it became aware of the photograph last November, Chapin said.

So that's that...

Also, why does the world revolve around you... You state that because you personally see it as the SS then it should be changed... What makes you so important...
Normally I wouldn't have pulled you up on that, but you've turned up here with your arragant ways acting like the cats pajamas...

 

[artanis_neravar]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46329740/ns/us_news/t/marines-posed-nazi-ss-symbol-afghanistan/#.Tzc7zOP-_9o

I found this story when looking for a Current Event for my class, and my first reaction was facepalm, really, you thought it meant Sniper Scout. This is the reason everyone thinks Americans are retarded. Soldiers who think that the Nazi SS symbol means Sniper Scout. Even if it was true (which it wasn't) they would still be the least educated people ever. If you have had a History class, you have seen the SS symbol. The least USMC could do is only allow the full logo or change the font.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/02/marine-amos-apologizes-for-scout-sniper-nazi-ss-logo-021012/

This was an apology from the Marines. My thoughts are that if you have to apologize for a logo that you use, you probably shouldn't use it.

What do you think about this?

I have a Masters degree, and I wouldn't have recognized that as the Nazi SS symbol, doesn't make me stupid. Besides, they are just symbols, and symbols get redefined all the time, the swastika, the pentagram/pentacle, the cross, etc

 

[3 legged goat]

Also, why does the world revolve around you... You state that because you personally see it as the SS then it should be changed... What makes you so important...
Normally I wouldn't have pulled you up on that, but you've turned up here with your arragant ways acting like the cats pajamas...

I didn't mean that just because only I saw it as that that it should be changed. Sorry that I didn't use , "I among others could have seen it as this". I didn't mean to come off as so self centered.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Ah, I see where the confusion came in... we did agree! When I quoted you, only the first line of my response was aimed at you, ('What about real military justifying it? Are we in the clear? ' which was only a joke because you mentioned the Armchair Generals, and Military Fanboys...!)

Yeah, it seems we certainly agree on more than we disagree. To be fair, I might have sounded a little hostile with my hyperbolic argument back there, so I think maybe the wrong tone came across. That's the internet, I suppose.

For better or for worse, I choose to believe that most people who serve in their respective countries' armed forces are good people, and if you don't mind me saying so you seem a good example of why I'm probably correct in that assumption.

I also understand the need, when you do such a demanding job, to have a sense of pride in what you do above and beyond that which most people will have in their work. Ultimately, you do a job most people, including myself, probably couldn't do and you deserve to be proud of it. It's not about attacking that sense of pride.

However, something I find very hard to reconcile is the sheer wave of denial which comes up whenever the American armed forces, and it does seem particularly cultural to the US, are seen to do wrong. Some of the time, it might be active servicepeople who feel the need (however misguided) to defend their profession to the death, which I suppose is understandable even if it's counterproductive, but I suspect a lot of the time it's just people who wish they could be servicemen or attach an exaggerated sense of virtue to the armed forces because their need for "heroes" is more important to them than the truth.

I think you understand far better than anyone, myself included, that soldiers are people who do a very difficult job and occasionally mess up. I think that if responsibility and appropriate measures are seen to be taken in such instances, as has happened in this case, the general public and the media will actually be far more understanding than if a bunch of over-zealous people stand up and try to justify it on principle because it's hard to acknowledge than anyone who wears a uniform can make a mistake. That's not pride, that's arrogance.

Actually, I think it has the opposite effect to that which is intended, because the media feeds on polemic debate. This kind of all or nothing argument arouses strong feelings in the audience, so the more it becomes about whether you love or hate the military, as opposed to an isolated non-event in which a few soldiers made a mistake, the longer they can run the story and the longer it's going to take people to forget about the whole thing.

And actually, that whole argument is kind of pointless. The people who choose to serve aren't going to stop being proud of their service, while the guy who was forced to shovel the emaciated corpses of thousands of men, women, children and friends into a firepit after weeks without food is never going to be able to see an SS flag as anything else. There is no winning that argument, there needs to be some kind of coexistence.

 

[Turtleboy1017]

Who gives a shit if they pose in front of this flag. Last I checked, freedom of speech in the armed forces is dictated by the higher command. Since they obviously didn't punish them for it, they were within their rights to do so.

Everyone needs to chill the fuck out. Go hate on some neo-nazis or something.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

Well, if they were photographed holding something as tenuously linked to the SS as your examples then there would be very little dispute, unfortunately (and as was pointed out in the first page I might add)

If anyone places a star next to a crescent moon I flip out because Jihadists use that symbol and they done did 9/11. It disgusts me how astronomers ever portray them next to each other, I think we should censor star charts. And if a child makes a drawing with a star next to a crescent moon he should be berated for being pro the murder of 3000 innocent people.


I'm going to take over a country and start a genocide. My flag will have a big letter A emblazoned on it so that you guys have to reinvent the entire alphabet.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I think you understand far better than anyone, myself included, that soldiers are people who do a very difficult job and occasionally mess up. I think that if responsibility and appropriate measures are seen to be taken in such instances, as has happened in this case, the general public and the media will actually be far more understanding than if a bunch of over-zealous people stand up and try to justify it on principle because it's hard to acknowledge than anyone who wears a uniform can make a mistake. That's not pride, that's arrogance.

Actually, I think it has the opposite effect to that which is intended, because the media feeds on polemic debate. This kind of all or nothing argument arouses strong feelings in the audience, so the more it becomes about whether you love or hate the military, as opposed to an isolated non-event in which a few soldiers made a mistake, the longer they can run the story and the longer it's going to take people to forget about the whole thing.

And actually, that whole argument is kind of pointless. The people who choose to serve aren't going to stop being proud of their service, while the guy who was forced to shovel the emaciated corpses of thousands of men, women, children and friends into a firepit after weeks without food is never going to be able to see an SS flag as anything else. There is no winning that argument, there needs to be some kind of coexistence.

I agree with you there... in fact I think its because the troop have a very difficult job is why they mess up... Try to imagine coming strait from school, age 18, and you have been thrown into training. You are run into the ground, and shouted at, and without knowing it, built into a fighting and killing machine... You spend so long with other people thinking for you at this stage, so that you can focus on your training, that the whole world at the other end of the training pipeline is suddenly so vast, with endless oportunities! (don't forget, just moved out of home...) But then don't forget aswell that a lot of that training focuses on preparing you to do something that is drummed into us as the most immoral thing you can do from a young age; harming and killing others... That is a lot of pressure to put on a young lad, especially one who is new to the big wide world, and is suddenly making all his own choices for the first time too.
So you have just been told it's now ok to kill people (as long as they are the ones who are trying to kill you, of course) what else is now ok? How about all this music your parents didn't like when you were younger? How about spending all your money on extravagant things? Like cars and stuff? You have your own money now anyway, what can stop you?
Now you are being sent to Afghan, all that new freedom is going away for 6-12 months... (seems like forever before your first tour... incredibly daunting) So now you have a lot on your mind... a desire to get home, first time so far from family, a realistic expectation of having to shoot at someone to stay alive, and the possibility that you may end up injured or worse win a concentrated ammount of time... on top of that you are in extreme hot/cold depending on the time of year... Prime time to mess something up... or not think straight!
(Apologies for spelling errors, I don't have a spell check, and I come on here after my shifts... I am pretty tired! )

I really like your last point as well! We do all get sucked into wanting to polarise the population into thinking things our way, that we forget to do the more simple option... aknowledge and understand the opponents veiws, and get on with your life! You hit the nail on the head, we don't always agree, so stop trying to be hostile and accept it! Especially if at the end of the day, nobody was harmed!

 

[Final First]

I doubt it's a mistake. Honestly they probably had the logo because they thought it looked cool despite the organization that used it (Schutzstaffel). Then they said that they didn't know just so they can get away with it.

 

[emeraldrafael]

You know even the Army knows what two lightnig bolt style Ss mean, and they're supposed to be the "dumbest" branch. how dumb do you have to be before the marines say no?

either that or history isnt necessary knowledge as a marine.

 

[BaronIveagh]

You are either very naive, or have never been taught about the past several thousand years of history. The Nazis are hardly a unique case, and it could be argued that they aren't even the worst case. Human history is nothing if not bloody and depressing.

Um, I wasn't talking about Nazis, I was talking about the US Army. My point was that the Nazis didn't invent anything, they just copied stuff the US Army had already done and added the occasional technological update to it.

And yet the Nazis are reviled, but the US army is a shining beacon of goodness.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

and without knowing it, built into a fighting and killing machine...

I know, it's like so out of the blue; the army trains people to kill? Jeez government, not everyone is Nostradamus, they really should educate people better about what exactly this 'military' organization does.