Mario is not a worn out franchise, and I hope that it will never be over.

[Supertegwyn]

Kind of funny because people on these forums seem to broadly disdain Super Mario Galaxy--which was hugely innovative--and yet have been singing the praises of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which is a remake of an eleven year-old game that adds a cover system and third-person latter climbing. That anyone envisions games like Human Revolution to be more "adult" is equally humorous: it's a piece of deviantart cyperpunk fan-fiction, basically, and there's truly nothing more childish than games which aspire to mature themes but fall agonizingly short of realizing their potential (or gamers that feel the need to latch on to 17+ titles as if it genuinely demonstrates their maturity).


That having been said, I thought Super Mario Galaxy 2 was a bit of a misstep--too derivative of the first--and it'd be nice if Nintendo reinstated their old approach of ensuring that when they released home console sequels, they innovated considerably in relation to the their predecessors. Then again, no one else does it--if anything, it seems like Nintendo has just assimilated themselves more and more to the yearly IP release cycle à la the Call of Duty or the NHL series.

Uh.... what? How is Human Revolution a remake of Deus Ex? Have you even played either game? They are quite different. Both fantastic games actually, and while I like Galaxy I do not find it innovative.

 

[EzraPound]

Kind of funny because people on these forums seem to broadly disdain Super Mario Galaxy--which was hugely innovative--and yet have been singing the praises of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which is a remake of an eleven year-old game that adds a cover system and third-person latter climbing. That anyone envisions games like Human Revolution to be more "adult" is equally humorous: it's a piece of deviantart cyperpunk fan-fiction, basically, and there's truly nothing more childish than games which aspire to mature themes but fall agonizingly short of realizing their potential (or gamers that feel the need to latch on to 17+ titles as if it genuinely demonstrates their maturity).


That having been said, I thought Super Mario Galaxy 2 was a bit of a misstep--too derivative of the first--and it'd be nice if Nintendo reinstated their old approach of ensuring that when they released home console sequels, they innovated considerably in relation to the their predecessors. Then again, no one else does it--if anything, it seems like Nintendo has just assimilated themselves more and more to the yearly IP release cycle à la the Call of Duty or the NHL series.

Uh.... what? How is Human Revolution a remake of Deus Ex? Have you even played either game? They are quite different. Both fantastic games actually, and while I like Galaxy I do not find it innovative.

1) It has the first game's plot.

2) It has the first game's gameplay, barring a few predictable changes like the cover system, new augs, a hacking mini-game, etc.

It also messed up a lot of stuff--the plot, while derivative of Deus Ex's, is unspeakably worse, there is virtually no player choice involved in augmentation selection (because you can pretty much get them all), it replaced the original's dense conversation structure with a few silly, L.A. Noire-style verbal tussles, the boss fights did nothing but sully the game, etc.

Also, did you ever notice how creative the use of synthetic gravity was in Super Mario Galaxy? Or the excellence of the visual design?

 

[Supertegwyn]

Kind of funny because people on these forums seem to broadly disdain Super Mario Galaxy--which was hugely innovative--and yet have been singing the praises of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which is a remake of an eleven year-old game that adds a cover system and third-person latter climbing. That anyone envisions games like Human Revolution to be more "adult" is equally humorous: it's a piece of deviantart cyperpunk fan-fiction, basically, and there's truly nothing more childish than games which aspire to mature themes but fall agonizingly short of realizing their potential (or gamers that feel the need to latch on to 17+ titles as if it genuinely demonstrates their maturity).


That having been said, I thought Super Mario Galaxy 2 was a bit of a misstep--too derivative of the first--and it'd be nice if Nintendo reinstated their old approach of ensuring that when they released home console sequels, they innovated considerably in relation to the their predecessors. Then again, no one else does it--if anything, it seems like Nintendo has just assimilated themselves more and more to the yearly IP release cycle à la the Call of Duty or the NHL series.

Uh.... what? How is Human Revolution a remake of Deus Ex? Have you even played either game? They are quite different. Both fantastic games actually, and while I like Galaxy I do not find it innovative.

1) It has the first game's plot.

2) It has the first game's gameplay, barring a few predictable changes like the cover system, new augs, a hacking mini-game, etc.

It also messed up a lot of stuff--the plot, while derivative of Deus Ex's, is unspeakably worse, there is virtually no player choice involved in augmentation selection (because you can pretty much get them all), it replaced the original's dense conversation structure with a few silly, L.A. Noire-style verbal tussles, the boss fights did nothing but sully the game, etc.

Also, did you ever notice how creative the use of synthetic gravity was in Super Mario Galaxy? Or the excellence of the visual design?

1) No it didn't. They were quite different

2) So it has a cover system, new augs, new minigames, new story, new weapons, new locations, new setting, new everything, yet it is still a remake?

I agree with the boss fight part, and I suppose the conversation was a bit dumbed down, but I disagree with the rest. As far as I know, it is impossible to completely max out augs (you need to stealth kill every guard in the game, hack all terminals and get all praxis kits and still have around 8 points left)
While it may not be BETTER than Deus Ex, it is still worthy of the name.

I agree the gravity is nice, but hardly "innovative", and the visual design was fairly bland (IMO)

 

[Racecarlock]

All your opinions are stupid.
If you don't like a series of games or characters or whatever then instead of bitching aobut them holding back gaming or not doing it right how about getting out there and making your own games and try to move gaming in the direction you want to see it in.
You know what Nintendo games are? Fun. All you cynical people and your "Ugh, cash-grab blah blah blah" are annoying, I for one hope Nintendo keep making Mario and Zelda games because I really enjoy playing them and I will keep buying them.
If you look at Nintendo's first party developed titles you'd realise they're more diverse than most. They've made successful platformers, adventure games, puzzle games, strategy games, racing games, sports games(not just Mario ones, I'm talking about Wave Race and 1080 as well), sim games, fighting games and RPGs.
If you look at it that way what has a company like Valve made? A bunch of First Person Shooters, how come nobody is complaining about that?

Let's look at pizza for a minute, have you ever not eaten a pizza just because that kind of pizza hasn't really changed much over the years? I doubt it

I can criticize whatever the damn well I want to. I am not a game developer so I cannot make games. Does that strip away my right to say that I personally do not like a game?

NO!

Is Yahtzee a game developer? No. Are other video game critics game developers? No. People have the right to criticize a work of art released to the public. You can't just say "Well you can't make any better" This isn't about me! This is about a work of art that a company (or person) has released, and is put under scrutiny. I am no director, but I know that Avatar: The Last Airbender was a bad film. Does that mean I could make a better film? Probably not.



P.S. How DARE you insult Valve.

I agree with what you said, but yahtzee is a game developer. What, you've never heard of trilby: the art of theft? [youtube.com=tH9KNwZq55w]

OT:I can't really say much about mario since I haven't played most of his games, but I will say some of the fan fiction is really good, and the OP should check out rise of the mushroom kingdom.

What was the first game I ever played? X-wing. Just x-wing. I couldn't even connect it to the star wars franchise since I not only hadn't seen episode IV yet despite it being the second movie I ever saw, but I was so young that I couldn't really understand most words yet. Mario's not exactly my thing, but he does have a great legacy, and I can respect that. Me? I'm waiting for the next star wars flight sim, because I want to be a member of rogue squadron again.

 

[Supertegwyn]

All your opinions are stupid.
If you don't like a series of games or characters or whatever then instead of bitching aobut them holding back gaming or not doing it right how about getting out there and making your own games and try to move gaming in the direction you want to see it in.
You know what Nintendo games are? Fun. All you cynical people and your "Ugh, cash-grab blah blah blah" are annoying, I for one hope Nintendo keep making Mario and Zelda games because I really enjoy playing them and I will keep buying them.
If you look at Nintendo's first party developed titles you'd realise they're more diverse than most. They've made successful platformers, adventure games, puzzle games, strategy games, racing games, sports games(not just Mario ones, I'm talking about Wave Race and 1080 as well), sim games, fighting games and RPGs.
If you look at it that way what has a company like Valve made? A bunch of First Person Shooters, how come nobody is complaining about that?

Let's look at pizza for a minute, have you ever not eaten a pizza just because that kind of pizza hasn't really changed much over the years? I doubt it

I can criticize whatever the damn well I want to. I am not a game developer so I cannot make games. Does that strip away my right to say that I personally do not like a game?

NO!

Is Yahtzee a game developer? No. Are other video game critics game developers? No. People have the right to criticize a work of art released to the public. You can't just say "Well you can't make any better" This isn't about me! This is about a work of art that a company (or person) has released, and is put under scrutiny. I am no director, but I know that Avatar: The Last Airbender was a bad film. Does that mean I could make a better film? Probably not.



P.S. How DARE you insult Valve.

I agree with what you said, but yahtzee is a game developer. What, you've never heard of trilby: the art of theft? [youtube.com=tH9KNwZq55w]

OT:I can't really say much about mario since I haven't played most of his games, but I will say some of the fan fiction is really good, and the OP should check out rise of the mushroom kingdom.

What was the first game I ever played? X-wing. Just x-wing. I couldn't even connect it to the star wars franchise since I not only hadn't seen episode IV yet despite it being the second movie I ever saw, but I was so young that I couldn't really understand most words yet. Mario's not exactly my thing, but he does have a great legacy, and I can respect that. Me? I'm waiting for the next star wars flight sim, because I want to be a member of rogue squadron again.

Oh, I was unaware of Yahtzee's exploits in the game developing industry. I apologize.

 

[Racecarlock]

All your opinions are stupid.
If you don't like a series of games or characters or whatever then instead of bitching aobut them holding back gaming or not doing it right how about getting out there and making your own games and try to move gaming in the direction you want to see it in.
You know what Nintendo games are? Fun. All you cynical people and your "Ugh, cash-grab blah blah blah" are annoying, I for one hope Nintendo keep making Mario and Zelda games because I really enjoy playing them and I will keep buying them.
If you look at Nintendo's first party developed titles you'd realise they're more diverse than most. They've made successful platformers, adventure games, puzzle games, strategy games, racing games, sports games(not just Mario ones, I'm talking about Wave Race and 1080 as well), sim games, fighting games and RPGs.
If you look at it that way what has a company like Valve made? A bunch of First Person Shooters, how come nobody is complaining about that?

Let's look at pizza for a minute, have you ever not eaten a pizza just because that kind of pizza hasn't really changed much over the years? I doubt it

I can criticize whatever the damn well I want to. I am not a game developer so I cannot make games. Does that strip away my right to say that I personally do not like a game?

NO!

Is Yahtzee a game developer? No. Are other video game critics game developers? No. People have the right to criticize a work of art released to the public. You can't just say "Well you can't make any better" This isn't about me! This is about a work of art that a company (or person) has released, and is put under scrutiny. I am no director, but I know that Avatar: The Last Airbender was a bad film. Does that mean I could make a better film? Probably not.



P.S. How DARE you insult Valve.

I agree with what you said, but yahtzee is a game developer. What, you've never heard of trilby: the art of theft? [youtube.com=tH9KNwZq55w]

OT:I can't really say much about mario since I haven't played most of his games, but I will say some of the fan fiction is really good, and the OP should check out rise of the mushroom kingdom.

What was the first game I ever played? X-wing. Just x-wing. I couldn't even connect it to the star wars franchise since I not only hadn't seen episode IV yet despite it being the second movie I ever saw, but I was so young that I couldn't really understand most words yet. Mario's not exactly my thing, but he does have a great legacy, and I can respect that. Me? I'm waiting for the next star wars flight sim, because I want to be a member of rogue squadron again.

Oh, I was unaware of Yahtzee's exploits in the game developing industry. I apologize.

It's quite alright. Yahtzee is primarily known for Zero Punctuation, and nobody really takes the time to look deeper into his other things. I wonder if half the ZP crowd even knows about extra punctuation.

 

[Supertegwyn]

All your opinions are stupid.
If you don't like a series of games or characters or whatever then instead of bitching aobut them holding back gaming or not doing it right how about getting out there and making your own games and try to move gaming in the direction you want to see it in.
You know what Nintendo games are? Fun. All you cynical people and your "Ugh, cash-grab blah blah blah" are annoying, I for one hope Nintendo keep making Mario and Zelda games because I really enjoy playing them and I will keep buying them.
If you look at Nintendo's first party developed titles you'd realise they're more diverse than most. They've made successful platformers, adventure games, puzzle games, strategy games, racing games, sports games(not just Mario ones, I'm talking about Wave Race and 1080 as well), sim games, fighting games and RPGs.
If you look at it that way what has a company like Valve made? A bunch of First Person Shooters, how come nobody is complaining about that?

Let's look at pizza for a minute, have you ever not eaten a pizza just because that kind of pizza hasn't really changed much over the years? I doubt it

I can criticize whatever the damn well I want to. I am not a game developer so I cannot make games. Does that strip away my right to say that I personally do not like a game?

NO!

Is Yahtzee a game developer? No. Are other video game critics game developers? No. People have the right to criticize a work of art released to the public. You can't just say "Well you can't make any better" This isn't about me! This is about a work of art that a company (or person) has released, and is put under scrutiny. I am no director, but I know that Avatar: The Last Airbender was a bad film. Does that mean I could make a better film? Probably not.



P.S. How DARE you insult Valve.

I agree with what you said, but yahtzee is a game developer. What, you've never heard of trilby: the art of theft? [youtube.com=tH9KNwZq55w]

OT:I can't really say much about mario since I haven't played most of his games, but I will say some of the fan fiction is really good, and the OP should check out rise of the mushroom kingdom.

What was the first game I ever played? X-wing. Just x-wing. I couldn't even connect it to the star wars franchise since I not only hadn't seen episode IV yet despite it being the second movie I ever saw, but I was so young that I couldn't really understand most words yet. Mario's not exactly my thing, but he does have a great legacy, and I can respect that. Me? I'm waiting for the next star wars flight sim, because I want to be a member of rogue squadron again.

Oh, I was unaware of Yahtzee's exploits in the game developing industry. I apologize.

It's quite alright. Yahtzee is primarily known for Zero Punctuation, and nobody really takes the time to look deeper into his other things. I wonder if half the ZP crowd even knows about extra punctuation.

I do! I do!

 

[Neon Jackal]

All your opinions are stupid.
If you don't like a series of games or characters or whatever then instead of bitching aobut them holding back gaming or not doing it right how about getting out there and making your own games and try to move gaming in the direction you want to see it in.
You know what Nintendo games are? Fun. All you cynical people and your "Ugh, cash-grab blah blah blah" are annoying, I for one hope Nintendo keep making Mario and Zelda games because I really enjoy playing them and I will keep buying them.
If you look at Nintendo's first party developed titles you'd realise they're more diverse than most. They've made successful platformers, adventure games, puzzle games, strategy games, racing games, sports games(not just Mario ones, I'm talking about Wave Race and 1080 as well), sim games, fighting games and RPGs.
If you look at it that way what has a company like Valve made? A bunch of First Person Shooters, how come nobody is complaining about that?

Let's look at pizza for a minute, have you ever not eaten a pizza just because that kind of pizza hasn't really changed much over the years? I doubt it

I can criticize whatever the damn well I want to. I am not a game developer so I cannot make games. Does that strip away my right to say that I personally do not like a game?

NO!

Is Yahtzee a game developer? No. Are other video game critics game developers? No. People have the right to criticize a work of art released to the public. You can't just say "Well you can't make any better" This isn't about me! This is about a work of art that a company (or person) has released, and is put under scrutiny. I am no director, but I know that Avatar: The Last Airbender was a bad film. Does that mean I could make a better film? Probably not.



P.S. How DARE you insult Valve.

To be clear, I'm not saying you have to be a developer, I'm just saying instead of whining about other people doing it wrong you should take steps to correct it. In the end telling someone they're doing it wrong isn't as helpful as showing them how to do it right.

P.S. I didn't insult Valve, just their fans.

 

[Shadu]

I never liked Mario. The games were okay, but for a similar experience, I much perferred Donkey Kong Country. I had some limited access to Mario when I was younger, but not a whole long. And when I got older, I just never liked him. The games do very little for me and if I'm platforming, I'd rather do Donkey Kong Country or Little Big Planet or the like.

 

[shrekfan246]

Have you heard of Yahtzee Croshaw? I think he might be inclinded to disagree with you.

Yeah, I don't think I would agree with anything that person says. In fact, everything he says seems like a joke and I have a hard time taking it seriously.

Does that guy actually mean what he says? Because it all seems like one of those "hating things just to hate things" jokes.

Actually, while Yahtzee has a rather tepid relationship with Metroid and Zelda, he has on multiple occasions trumpeted how Mario is the one bastion of true innovation in Nintendo's countless re-imagining of all of their core franchises. With the exception of Super Mario Galaxy 2, in one of his Extra Punctuation articles he actually called out a user who had been bashing Mario for saying Nintendo only re-released the same game every time. So. . . yeah. I know most people think that Zero Punctuation is his entire true persona and many have never even heard of his written articles, but there's that.

 

[TheDooD]

The only way Mario is gonna survive is only if Nintendo matures and evolves their IP's properly. Instead of how they been doing it I'm a Retro Junkie and grew up with the NES / SNES. Yet how they basically half ass their own IP's it makes me sad. I udder hate Nintendo America because IMO they're the reason why Nintendo as a whole has some bad PR with gamers these days. They just seem to ignore what the people want yet push what they don't. I hated how they basically forced the Wii's gimmick when they know its flawed and not very good for day to day gaming. I can respect they wanted to stand out yet can't respect they basically ignored people over and over again. I just hope they get their heads on straight before it's too late because I want my kid in a future to experience Mario like I did as a kid.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well the thing with Mario is it only ever grows in gameplay and nothing else, which is completely intentional so the game stays simple for anyone to pick up (mainly kids).
And that is just something you need to understand, Pacman, Tetris, Donkey Kong or Mario will never have immersive worlds, story, characters, dialogue, .... they are simply all about gameplay.

Now you get to decide if this is something that you like or not, I for one have become heavily story/world dependent in games and Mario doesn't tickle my fancy anymore.

 

[lacktheknack]

All your opinions are stupid.

People tell me that I shouldn't look down on users with post counts below a hundred, what with me being there once and other such things, and then this lovely gem occurs. Please go learn what an opinion is before insulting an entire thread's worth of posters.

Anyways, I never played Mario, what with me not ever having a Nintendo system. All I am going to say here is that Mario is the least of the problems in terms of redundancy.

Put down Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, Just Cause, Final Fantasy, Legend of Zelda, Nancy Drew Adventures, Myst, and pretty much any other beloved franchise, then we'll concern ourselves with Mario.

 

[Neon Jackal]

All your opinions are stupid.

People tell me that I shouldn't look down on users with post counts below a hundred, what with me being there once and other such things, and then this lovely gem occurs. Please go learn what an opinion is before insulting an entire thread's worth of posters.

I never judge a book by is cover, or post count as it were. But being the internet it's hard not to find elitest fags.

I was merely trying to point out that the majority of posts were the same recycled bullshit, but with a community this big that's no surprise and that's sad.

 

[lacktheknack]

All your opinions are stupid.

People tell me that I shouldn't look down on users with post counts below a hundred, what with me being there once and other such things, and then this lovely gem occurs. Please go learn what an opinion is before insulting an entire thread's worth of posters.

I never judge a book by is cover, or post count as it were. But being the internet it's hard not to find elitest fags.

I was merely trying to point out that the majority of posts were the same recycled bullshit, but with a community this big that's no surprise and that's sad.

I judge by the content. "All your opinions are stupid" is some pretty revealing content.

Also, "All your opinions are stupid" has little to do with "your opinions are recycled".

 

[Matrixbeast]

Ehh.
I would prefer if Mario stayed. Yeah, I'd like to see him take a bit of a hiatus, but all together being discontinued? No...

Also, huh. Nintendo gets a lot of hate on these boards.

 

[No_Remainders]

Edit: Okay, maybe I can jump start this topic so that it gets some replies. I don't see anything wrong with starting a new franchise as Nintendo. Same with others. But I don't see what's wrong with making the same franchises when they're good? If they're still making good games for them, why fix what's broken? These things have a huge for a reason.

Nothing wrong with keeping a character. Nothing at all.

What's wrong with Mario is the fact that all the games are re-hashes of things that have been done before.

There's just something very Battlestar Galactica-esque with Mario...

If you don't get that, it's a reference to a phrase they used to say "All of this has happened before, and all this will happen again."