Marriage doesn't look too Appealing in the Long Run...

[SonicKoala]

Marriage is a societal pressure placed on individuals to pair bond primarily for financial stability and secondarily to reduce relationship threats from stray males.


It is nothing but a legal contract. If you need a ring to not fuck other people well your an animal arent you?

Are you suggesting that animals require rings in order to not fuck other animals?

 

[The Aimless One]

I plan on not getting married because of the reasoning Furburt mentioned in the post above mine.

However I could imagine a situation where my partner tells me:

"Well that's all fine and dandy, but you're guy number thirty-something to promise me he's going to stay and they all left..........so I want some insurance this time around!"

I'd have to think about that.
I'm not saying it's the right way to go, but I could understand someone reasoning like that.
Specially if you plan on having children.

 

[Deleted]

Well, for one, why is marrying for love an illogical reason? Like you said later on, marriage for many people is a symbol not only for their love, but their dedication towards each other.

The point I was trying to make in that part was that people who need a proof of love "just in case it wasn't really love after all" are jjust fooling thmaelves.

I don't see the problem with this at all - your conclusion that people who marry for love are entering into relationships which are "doomed to fail" is a blatant generalization, and I've known couples personally who entered into such relationships and are still together after 40 or 50 years.

I think 50% is a pretty big amount, but yes there are successful relationships but just because someone does something right doesn't mean you can. People always marry thinking they'll be married forever, and half of them are wrong. Yes you know a few people who are married for a long time but that doesn't mean they're still in love. Like I said in the OP people sould stay together 'for the kids' or for financial reasons, there are lots of reasons why someone would stay married and believe it or not the hassle of divorce is one.

As for the rest of your post, although it's true that divorce can be a huge financial burden on either one or both parties, signing a prenuptial agreement prior to marriage would completely remove the majority of financial difficulties people face when they get divorced.

Once again if you need to ensure that you don't get ripped off, why not just not marry so that when they leave yo won't lose anything. Its in their best intentions to do a prenuptial agreement but it would save trouble if they WEREN'T entitled to half your things. If the woman doesn't make money, well then she now knows that she can leave with half of everything at any time, and this IS a reality. If she 'doesn't love him anymore' she will just take her earnings and go. If they're both making money, and after the divorce they take their own things, that just puts them back to square 1. If Kids are involved, most of the time it's in their best intention to stay and just put up with each other. Of course I don't know what its like to divorce with kids.

I see no problem in splitting what a couple earned while they're together in half - it's tough, but fair. If kids enter into the equation, well that definitely complicates things, but after all, there's a reason why divorce is such a slippery slope.

Oh, and you left out one of, if not the, most common reason people get married - religion.

The way I see it, the breadwinner always loses. If I was breaking up with someone I would hate to see them walk away with my money, especially if they took my kids and I have to pay child support without seeing them.

As for religion, I really don't know what to say about that. People will feel obligated to stay with each other because of their religion complex, or maybe they won't. I don't know what its like to have religion as my first priority so I can't say on the matter.

 

[Darth Caelum]

You don't understand marriage because you think it's about you and your spouse. It's not. It's about the children you plan to have together. Ideally, once you take that leap, you no longer focus on your own happiness. You shift to a supportive role as provider for your offspring. This includes the creation of a stable, nurturing home environment.

There's really no denying that divorce severely compromises this dynamic for the children. The parents can certainly compensate and adapt, but it's never going to be ideal after the separation. The kids can still mature and develop into perfectly well-adjusted adults, but studies show the odds are better for those who come from intact families.

Anyways, divorce has become commonplace because we live in an age of relative selfishness. People aren't willing to ride out or suppress marital strife for the good of their children anymore. We see marriage, now, as the natural progression of any extended monogamous relationship - and it's broken just as easily. Not going to pass any judgement on this trend.

Well.....there MAY be a few problems with that man. One is that a Relationship is ALWAYS based upon your own desires, and that saying otherwise seems contradictory to me. I love a person let's say, enough to spend the rest of my life with her, i marry her because i love her and that gives ME happiness. Thus it CAN count as selfish, though as i said, there's nothing wrong with that.

I agree with Divorce, though the "Age of Relative Selfishness" annoys me. PEOPLE have ALWAYS been SELFISH. From the day when our ancestors killed each other over ideas, to this day.

Also, it seems to me that you are a little, um, derogatory to the OP, don't insult him by saying that he does not know what he's saying. In fact don't insult him at all, we are here for a discussion, not arguments.

EDIT: I formally apologize on the Last Paragraph, but not on the rest. I misinterpreted some of your choice of words, sorry.

 

[BDBracket]

I actually think it's women who tend to come out worse after divorce.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/25/divorce-women-research

 

[Deleted]

Marriage is a societal pressure placed on individuals to pair bond primarily for financial stability and secondarily to reduce relationship threats from stray males.


It is nothing but a legal contract. If you need a ring to not fuck other people well your an animal arent you?

That second part is interesting. What would life be like if it was considered normal to have sex with anyone you want, as long as its purely physical. Getting a hooker isn't cheating is it? But to have sex these days you need to invest time and money (dating and getting to know her) to convince the girl to open her legs (if she opens them for free, she's probably not worth it).

You don't understand marriage because you think it's about you and your spouse. It's not. It's about the children you plan to have together. Ideally, once you take that leap, you no longer focus on your own happiness. You shift to a supportive role as provider for your offspring. This includes the creation of a stable, nurturing home environment.

There's really no denying that divorce severely compromises this dynamic for the children. The parents can certainly compensate and adapt, but it's never going to be ideal after the separation. The kids can still mature and develop into perfectly well-adjusted adults, but studies show the odds are better for those who come from intact families.

Anyways, divorce has become commonplace because we live in an age of relative selfishness. People aren't willing to ride out or suppress marital strife for the good of their children anymore. We see marriage, now, as the natural progression of any extended monogamous relationship - and it's broken just as easily. Not going to pass any judgement on this trend.

you're assuming people marry to have kids. That's not the case and a lot of times the kids were a happy accident. But I understand the importance of staying together when you have kids.

 

[Baby Tea]

I don't see how marriage is considered the best life plan to the average citizen. Granted, I'm a very systematic person and I always want to have a plan that will benefit me the most in the end (I have OCD, but this is the internet, so does everyone else according to them). I just don't see how marriage can end happily, lets look at the reasons someone might marry:

1. They love each other
This shouldn't be a real reason, it's pretty illogical. If you love someone enough that you want to stay with them forever, why do you need to chain them to you with a marriage status? Obviously you don't trust them to stay with you forever and ever since you crave this human interaction much. If I find a mate who I'm very comfortable with (which is unlikely, I prefer to be alone but not ronery.), they're free to leave at any time if for some reason or another they don't like me as much, I don't want to be stuck with them if they change their mind, and I'm not going to force them to do something they don't want.

So then if someone is marrying for this reason, it's doomed to fail. They must be marrying for another reason alongside this one.

That's totally wrong.
Like, incredibly wrong.

I'm married, it'll be two years this May 17th, and I love being married. It's awesome. The idea of marriage isn't a 'chain' (If you think that way, then save throwing your money at divorce lawyers and don't get married), it's a commitment. It's a promise. What both parties are saying isn't 'I don't want you to go anywhere else!', they're saying 'I will never leave you'. It's not about the other person never leaving, it's about you promising to stand by them (...in sickness and in health, for better or worse...).

And I don't see how you get 'force them to do something they don't want'. It's not like you can have a surprise marriage where suddenly 'Surprise! You're married!' (Not including drunken morons in Las Vegas...and even those can be annulled). You both agree to it, so nobody is being forced into anything. And as for the 'you can't trust them' line, that I don't understand at all. I trust my wife more then any other person. I can tell her anything, and I know she'll be there for me. She can do the same with me.

Marriage is a very serious promise and commitment, but once you find the right person, it's easy.
You said yourself you're a teenager, so I don't expect you to fully 'get it'. I didn't when I was a teen.
But I'm 26, married, learning more every day, and loving it. I wouldn't change it for the world.

 

[Crosshead]

You don't understand marriage because you think it's about you and your spouse. It's not. It's about the children you plan to have together. Ideally, once you take that leap, you no longer focus on your own happiness. You shift to a supportive role as provider for your offspring. This includes the creation of a stable, nurturing home environment.

There's really no denying that divorce severely compromises this dynamic for the children. The parents can certainly compensate and adapt, but it's never going to be ideal after the separation. The kids can still mature and develop into perfectly well-adjusted adults, but studies show the odds are better for those who come from intact families.

Anyways, divorce has become commonplace because we live in an age of relative selfishness. People aren't willing to ride out or suppress marital strife for the good of their children anymore. We see marriage, now, as the natural progression of any extended monogamous relationship - and it's broken just as easily. Not going to pass any judgement on this trend.

I proposed to my girlfriend last year, ten years from the day we got together. I'm doing it because I want to have kids sometime in the next five years, and we want them to be raised in a family unit, as we were. Thats why I'm getting married. It's good for the kids. Firery trainwreck is the first to have mentioned children, but thats almost the whole reason I proposed. As a bonus, it will make my partner very happy. And I love her and I want her to be happy.

 

[Deleted]

-snip-

Ah! You're Back! Well, since i already told you my views on Love, i'll tell you my views on Marriage.
Several reasons. most of which have been said by root of all evil but hey! i'll say 'em again.

Love. Stability. Companionship.

People ALWAYS do things for selfish reasons, no exception. Marriage is simply another one, whether You don't want to be alone, You like that person, You desire her wealth is all irrelevant. The word You comes up in all of them.

But just because they ARE selfish does not mean they are a bad thing.

[sub] Also, still haven't found love, eh?[/sub]

I'm not aying marriage is a bad thing, since that will get me flamed. But there are always good ideas and bad ones and I'm trying to figure out why society's view on marriage is so wrong from my views.

[sub]Hey shut up, I'm working on it. Doesn't help when you're a shut in who plays Pokemon.[/sub]

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

I like to think that marriage is a way of closing your relationship out from the rest of society, a way of saying 'I've found the one I want, I'm not available in any way'. Or rather, it should. It should mean that you're committed till death do you part. It should be the final mark of committment. But then it isn't always, is it.

I hate having the views about love that I do. It makes people think I'm stupid or naive or something.

 

[Daveman]

OK, here's an idea. Family Structure.

Not just parents and children, but generations. Grandparents, great grandparents. Family history, none of it would be preserved without marriage. Without genealogy a great deal of history would be lost.

That's why I feel marriage is important or at least holds some kind of significance in our modern world.

But I don't think really there's much point in arguing for marriage, I mean sure it's not necessary, but neither are many frivolous parts of our lives.

 

[Darth Caelum]

-snip-

Ah! You're Back! Well, since i already told you my views on Love, i'll tell you my views on Marriage.
Several reasons. most of which have been said by root of all evil but hey! i'll say 'em again.

Love. Stability. Companionship.

People ALWAYS do things for selfish reasons, no exception. Marriage is simply another one, whether You don't want to be alone, You like that person, You desire her wealth is all irrelevant. The word You comes up in all of them.

But just because they ARE selfish does not mean they are a bad thing.

[sub] Also, still haven't found love, eh?[/sub]

I'm not aying marriage is a bad thing, since that will get me flamed. But there are always good ideas and bad ones and I'm trying to figure out why society's view on marriage is so wrong from my views.

[sub]Hey shut up, I'm working on it. Doesn't help when you're a shut in who plays Pokemon.[/sub]

I never said that Marriage was a bad thing. I'm ANNOYED when someone says it is the ultimate sign of love to someone when it is Obviously[sub]for me anyway[/sub] not. Divorce can kill that Sign pretty quickly.

Society thinks that way because it is how the Majority of us has been raised. Hundreds of years ago, people thought of an idea, that idea managed to beat it's opponents to death until it became dominant, then it established itself as the Default option.

Assassin's Creed can be a beautiful source of Philosophy.

[sub]Pokemon! Bah! I never liked the series. I'm an Anime guy. Insult me with THAT![/sub]

 

[Agayek]

By the way, I'm not sure if the US has this or not but in the UK if you co-habit with someone for over 3 or 5 years there are laws against you being able to "Just change the locks on your door, and its over."...

We have something similar here in the States. It's called a Common-law Marriage [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage]

 

[Darth Caelum]

I like to think that marriage is a way of closing your relationship out from the rest of society, a way of saying 'I've found the one I want, I'm not available in any way'. Or rather, it should. It should mean that you're committed till death do you part. It should be the final mark of committment. But then it isn't always, is it.

I hate having the views about love that I do. It makes people think I'm stupid or naive or something.

Con't worry about it. Hold on to your views for dear life, they DO make who you are afterall.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

I like to think that marriage is a way of closing your relationship out from the rest of society, a way of saying 'I've found the one I want, I'm not available in any way'. Or rather, it should. It should mean that you're committed till death do you part. It should be the final mark of committment. But then it isn't always, is it.

I hate having the views about love that I do. It makes people think I'm stupid or naive or something.

Con't worry about it. Hold on to your views for dear life, they DO make who you are afterall.

Hm, good advice. Thank you, I think I will.

 

[Deleted]

I don't see how marriage is considered the best life plan to the average citizen. Granted, I'm a very systematic person and I always want to have a plan that will benefit me the most in the end (I have OCD, but this is the internet, so does everyone else according to them). I just don't see how marriage can end happily, lets look at the reasons someone might marry:

1. They love each other
This shouldn't be a real reason, it's pretty illogical. If you love someone enough that you want to stay with them forever, why do you need to chain them to you with a marriage status? Obviously you don't trust them to stay with you forever and ever since you crave this human interaction much. If I find a mate who I'm very comfortable with (which is unlikely, I prefer to be alone but not ronery.), they're free to leave at any time if for some reason or another they don't like me as much, I don't want to be stuck with them if they change their mind, and I'm not going to force them to do something they don't want.

So then if someone is marrying for this reason, it's doomed to fail. They must be marrying for another reason alongside this one.

That's totally wrong.
Like, incredibly wrong.

I'm married, it'll be two years this May 17th, and I love being married. It's awesome. The idea of marriage isn't a 'chain' (If you think that way, then save throwing your money at divorce lawyers and don't get married), it's a commitment. It's a promise. What both parties are saying isn't 'I don't want you to go anywhere else!', they're saying 'I will never leave you'. It's not about the other person never leaving, it's about you promising to stand by them (...in sickness and in health, for better or worse...).

And I don't see how you get 'force them to do something they don't want'. It's not like you can have a surprise marriage where suddenly 'Surprise! You're married!' (Not including drunken morons in Las Vegas...and even those can be annulled). You both agree to it, so nobody is being forced into anything. And as for the 'you can't trust them' line, that I don't understand at all. I trust my wife more then any other person. I can tell her anything, and I know she'll be there for me. She can do the same with me.

Marriage is a very serious promise and commitment, but once you find the right person, it's easy.
You said yourself you're a teenager, so I don't expect you to fully 'get it'. I didn't when I was a teen.
But I'm 26, married, learning more every day, and loving it. I wouldn't change it for the world.

Okay well if you're happy together there's nothing wrong with that, don't let me discredit your choices. HOWEVER you'd be a fool to deny that MOST couples end up unsuccesful like Rhianna and Chris Brown to name a familiar example, and that you are an example of a successful relationship. Good for you, you are above average, good for you. congratulations on the 2 years running

"And as for the 'you can't trust them' line, that I don't understand at all. I trust my wife more then any other person. I can tell her anything, and I know she'll be there for me. She can do the same with me. "
Most people do not know each other as well as you know your spouse (which I assume is a lot based on your post). They will think they completely trust them but then again they trusted their parents when they said santa clause was real, or trusted their highschool lover to e with them forever. When people think they are right in thinking something they tend to stick by that thought (kinda like what I'm doing in this thread ).

"The idea of marriage isn't a 'chain' (If you think that way, then save throwing your money at divorce lawyers and don't get married)"
This is exactly what I'm saying, people marry for this reason!

"It's a promise. What both parties are saying isn't 'I don't want you to go anywhere else!', they're saying 'I will never leave you'. "
When people are in love they tend not to think straight and say things like that. How does this explain divorces where they "ran out of love"?

"It's not about the other person never leaving, it's about you promising to stand by them (...in sickness and in health, for better or worse...)."
Thats basically financial reasons which I completely understand.

"And I don't see how you get 'force them to do something they don't want'. It's not like you can have a surprise marriage where suddenly 'Surprise! You're married!'"
By that I meant to somehow put considerable effort into bringing her back. Sorry if it was unclear.

 

[Darth Caelum]

I like to think that marriage is a way of closing your relationship out from the rest of society, a way of saying 'I've found the one I want, I'm not available in any way'. Or rather, it should. It should mean that you're committed till death do you part. It should be the final mark of committment. But then it isn't always, is it.

I hate having the views about love that I do. It makes people think I'm stupid or naive or something.

Con't worry about it. Hold on to your views for dear life, they DO make who you are afterall.

Hm, good advice. Thank you, I think I will.

You're welcome. Try reading Sandman and Lucifer. Great Comics. Philosophy in panel form.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

I like to think that marriage is a way of closing your relationship out from the rest of society, a way of saying 'I've found the one I want, I'm not available in any way'. Or rather, it should. It should mean that you're committed till death do you part. It should be the final mark of committment. But then it isn't always, is it.

I hate having the views about love that I do. It makes people think I'm stupid or naive or something.

Con't worry about it. Hold on to your views for dear life, they DO make who you are afterall.

Hm, good advice. Thank you, I think I will.

You're welcome. Try reading Sandman and Lucifer. Great Comics. Philosophy in panel form.

Sounds interesting, I think I'll give it a go

 

[SonicKoala]

The point I was trying to make in that part was that people who need a proof of love "just in case it wasn't really love after all" are jjust fooling thmaelves.

I think you're completely missing the point as to what it means when people "marry for love" - they aren't marrying as a means of "proving" their love, they are enterting into this relationship because they love each other so strongly, and thus want to spend the rest of their lives with each other. One is leading to another, one is not being used to enforce the other.

I think 50% is a pretty big amount, but yes there are successful relationships but just because someone does something right doesn't mean you can. People always marry thinking they'll be married forever, and half of them are wrong. Yes you know a few people who are married for a long time but that doesn't mean they're still in love. Like I said in the OP people sould stay together 'for the kids' or for financial reasons, there are lots of reasons why someone would stay married and believe it or not the hassle of divorce is one.

Well, considering these people are retired and their children no longer live with them, there's really no need for them to stay together (at least going by your reasons), but they do, and that's largely because, after all those years, they still enjoy each other's company and actually want to be with each other. You're approaching this whole issue with a large degree of pessimism and cynicism - there are, in fact, people out there who love each other immensely, and that feeling has endured for many decades.

Once again if you need to ensure that you don't get ripped off, why not just not marry so that when they leave yo won't lose anything. Its in their best intentions to do a prenuptial agreement but it would save trouble if they WEREN'T entitled to half your things. If the woman doesn't make money, well then she now knows that she can leave with half of everything at any time, and this IS a reality. If she 'doesn't love him anymore' she will just take her earnings and go. If they're both making money, and after the divorce they take their own things, that just puts them back to square 1. If Kids are involved, most of the time it's in their best intention to stay and just put up with each other. Of course I don't know what its like to divorce with kids.

All of this is true, and that's why finances, and their associated consequences, are not a big determining factor when people decide to get married. People are largely motivated by factors such as love, or their religion. Although some marriages are "marriages of convenience", and are forged with financial aspects in mind,that is an exception to the rule. The majority of people actually do want to "settle down" and "start a family" and all that jazz, and as people have already pointed out, getting married makes that significantly easier, if only from a bureaucratic point-of-view.

The way I see it, the breadwinner always loses. If I was breaking up with someone I would hate to see them walk away with my money, especially if they took my kids and I have to pay child support without seeing them.

As for religion, I really don't know what to say about that. People will feel obligated to stay with each other because of their religion complex, or maybe they won't. I don't know what its like to have religion as my first priority so I can't say on the matter.

Honestly, I don't know what to say about the whole religion thing, either. I just know it's a big motivator. Outside of that, I got nothing....