Martial Arts That Aren't Useless

[lucky_sharm]

The Bujinkan doesn't fuck around. They generally aren't allowed to have/take part in martial arts tournaments because almost everything they do is geared toward killing and maiming as efficiently as possible.

That's kinda dumb, since maiming and killing is pretty much illegal (even in self defence), it's like a group where you teach civilians how to best hunt endangered animals. While such groups probably exists in some underground places of the world, they're in no way official.

In fact, a simple google search easily proved you wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bujinkan Like alls martial arts, it's focused on defence. you want to know why? Because killing and maiming people is illegal. If they would dabble in illegal stuff they'd get shut down, and the guys teaching how to kill people would probably be locked up.

It's kind of funny how much of a hard on people have for martial arts, it's kind of like parkour or snipers. Sure it looks cool in the movies, but you're not really some kind of superhuman for learning it, and you don't become wiser just because you can throw someone to the ground.

Martial arts are still a thing where people are having a difficulty differentiating it from the "oriental wise man" from the movies, or the "ninja"-bullshit that's sadly more common than I'd like.

It isn't dumb to teach people how to kill, especially when you're in a situation where someone wants to take your life. In a fight, most people don't think "Here's how I will methodically neutralize my opponent" but more like "punch kick elbow OHSHIT HIS FIST IS COMIN".

 

[Louis.J]

I would recommend judo. I have used it in various brawls and it can deter an assailant from carrying on a fight, if you start off knocking (or throwing) him off his feet at his first several attempts.

I concur that Krav Maga is a very efficient type of martial art, although it is certainly not a gentlemanly one.

 

[Vausch]

Well technically there aren't useless martial arts. Each one does have an advantage over another with different strengths and weaknesses, the key is just in how well you train.

That said though, it is best to avoid places known as "McDojos" where they're purely in it for the money, charge you to take belt ranking tests (if applicable) and really the styles are often more applicable to sports than anything else so real world combat is rarely taught. K-Tigers is the very definition of McDojo.

Personally I'd consider Krav Maga, Muay Thai, Karate, or ITF Taekwondo (the good one, do NOT go with "WTF").

 

[Enamour]

Surprised Jeet Kune Do hasn't been mentioned yet. Being built entirely around efficiency and adaptability, there are definitely styles that get the job done faster (it being more reserved than some all out techniques), it should be able to deal with whatever comes at you. It is however painfully hard to learn as it's as much a mindset as a list of moves.

It's my understanding that Jeet Kun Do is a basis for many of the modern military styles, so was also surprised that no one's mentioned it.

@OP I started JKD for similar reasons to what you've explained. The main concern I had was finding a physical expression for my zen practice; to practice calmness in activity. Basically I needed something to practice focusing, clearing my mind while gradually and mindfully building my body to meet the demands of the practice.

What JKD is.

It's a fighting style developed by Bruce Lee. He believed that, as has been pointed out in this thread, the problem with "martial arts" was the arts part. He criticized traditional styles like karate for having become like sports and having lost the true essence of combat.

What it did for me.

So I got Bruce Lee's Tao of Jeet Kun Do. Basically his notes were published after his death. So I read the words, looked at the pictures all the while trying to understand the "essence" of what I would be trying to accomplish.

Bruce Lee constantly reminds you that Jeet Kun Do is a basis into which you can add and adapt almost anything from any style. He stresses that your practice is a personal/emotional/spiritual thing as much as it has combat-motive. With the wrong mind you will lose every fight; internal or external.

I approached JKD as a self-learning exercise and after a few years of practice I have a limited, but sufficient, range of "moves" that I practice mindfully whenever I am alone, or sparring with a friend. My kicks are quick, accurate and powerful. My hands are strong and I harden them constantly. At around 186cm tall, weighing around 72kgs, I am slim but strong and flexible; I rediscovered the joy of movement, something that I believe most of us lose when we're no longer children. I am confident that I'm able to execute correctly and with the right mind. Though winning a street fight depends as much on my opponent as it does me.

Practice was never suffering and there was no feeling of "Meh, I don't want to do this today.". Gradual, mindful and constant practice of basic principles.

Don't get discouraged.

Here's where I have to get a little zen. Whatever OP chooses, the easiest way to become discouraged is to have goals in terms of expectations. Expectations never meet up with reality and failing to meet them can easily discourage you from practice. Having an expectation of your practice is a little like asking "What does this offer me?" and then answering your own question when the answer is actually "I don't know yet, I haven't been practicing it long/diligently enough to realize.". You do what you can do and the rest will take care of itself.

Balance, mindfulness, strength, agility, stamina, speed. It doesn't matter how you practice as long as you're not sliding backwards.

 

[Sanshou]

One that people rarely bring up; Sanshou/Sanda.

Its essentially the chinese equivalent of muay thai its taught to the military out there. It utilizes boxing, kicking, knees and elbows like muay thai does but also involves some wrestling making it a pretty versatile art. ALot of it is based off its kung fu roots, so depending on the school there may be a large emphasis on traditional bone conditioning exercises which makes you hard as iron.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Do you really think that profitable organisations actually can teach people the best way to kill and maim other people? Like actually?

Er...anywhere that teaches people to use a handgun is most likely doing that.

 

[ExtraDebit]

Just practice your dragon punch, hurricane kick and hadokens and you'll be fine.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Do you really think that profitable organisations actually can teach people the best way to kill and maim other people? Like actually?

Er...anywhere that teaches people to use a handgun is most likely doing that.

Which are, what, three, four countries in the western world?

Assuming it was, that'd represent something like a quarter or a fifth of the west's population.

I don't believe that it is that rare, though, lots of western nations have pistol shooting as a sport, send people to the Olympics, and so on.

 

[Irmekroache]

No martial art is useless. Sometimes martial arts have very obscure applications, if you go learn more traditional martial arts, you'll notice that all the movements are weaved into philosophies and schools of thoughts, and that the movements aren't necessarily the most practical for fighting.

I've done Wing Chun(chinese) for a few years, and I can say that even for a style with such a big focus on sparring, some of the movements we are taught are needlessly complex ways to deal with attacks. I'm currently learning a sort of modern kung fu that picks elements from various styles to make up a more efficient, direct, fighting system.

Honestly, martial arts today are really only what their name proclaims they are: arts. It is incredibly rewarding to study these arts and understand the human body, but their practical application is disputed and the prospect of a fight should be avoided altogether. Learn martial arts for its spiritual, physical, and mental benefits, not for beating up people.

 

[unindexedsearchengine]

I don't think anyone mentioned this one yet : Kali Silat.
It's quite a large family of different schools of fighting, but they're all quick and rather brutal. They really focus on practicality over flare.
Kali isn't the type of martial art where you "become one with your inner self", it isn't the kind where you meditate with incense in the corner*.
Kali is "this is how you beat up a ************ in five moves so that he will never walk again".
I've been doing Kali for about half a year now, and I really enjoy it, despite the pain involved. Wouldn't be much of a martial art otherwise.
It has heavy focus on weapons,but it goes in depth with hand-to-hand as-well. This is also good for fitness, as many strengthening drills are done with heavy wooden or metal sticks. They also fracture and re-fracture your finger bones over and over again so they become extremely dense.

It's effective, quick, and brutal.


[small]* I am not criticizing those types and styles, only trying to explain the difference between the two clearly[/small]

 

[RoonMian]

Edit: As an amateur-ish boxer myself I have to add though that boxing has some problems in a bar fight or similar scenarios. What separates the hand techniques of boxing from other martial arts is how you stand. But the way you stand in boxing requires a lot of space in your pants, very light, thin-soled shoes and is comparatively wobbly (boxers don't need to stand firm like an oak tree because they don't kick). So if "real world" application is your goal and not athletic competition and/or fitness then boxing might not be the thing for you. You'll learn how to deck someone, sure. But to do that in a bar brawl other schools will teach that to you better than boxing.

Clothing is the bane of most traditional martial artists too, kicking in skinny jeans is freakin impossible

But as an actual question, something I never got, Boxers always emphasise the light footwork and staying as mobile as possible, but doesn't that make it harder to launch power-shots since that requires hip/knee/weight rotations, is there like a balance I've never spotted (coming at this from a Kung Fu/MMA background where we do balls of the feet balance but that's for launching kicks, I'm curious if Boxing had a different approach)

Huh? I'd always thought that in other martial arts you need a firm stand to launch kicks. So no balls of feet but standing on the whole foot to be able to shift weight onto one foot better when the other leaves the ground.

In boxing you stand on the balls of your feet for precisely the reason to be able to gather the kinetic energy from down your toes and up. That's the reason why I thought boxers hit harder than other martial artists who stand firm on their feet because they need to be able to lift one foot to kick. You stand light on the balls of your feet to lean into your punches even with your feet.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Clothing is the bane of most traditional martial artists too, kicking in skinny jeans is freakin impossible

But as an actual question, something I never got, Boxers always emphasise the light footwork and staying as mobile as possible, but doesn't that make it harder to launch power-shots since that requires hip/knee/weight rotations, is there like a balance I've never spotted (coming at this from a Kung Fu/MMA background where we do balls of the feet balance but that's for launching kicks, I'm curious if Boxing had a different approach)

Huh? I'd always thought that in other martial arts you need a firm stand to launch kicks. So no balls of feet but standing on the whole foot to be able to shift weight onto one foot better when the other leaves the ground.

In boxing you stand on the balls of your feet for precisely the reason to be able to gather the kinetic energy from down your toes and up. That's the reason why I thought boxers hit harder than other martial artists who stand firm on their feet because they need to be able to lift one foot to kick. You stand light on the balls of your feet to lean into your punches even with your feet.

Ahhh, see, this is interesting, because kicks have the same rotation through the ground that punches do it's tricky to do completely flat and means most kicks are thrown the same you'd do a punch, with the support leg on the ball of the foot (easier to pivot and all that). But conversely punches or particularly powerful ones might have the whole foot down on one leg to add more rotation from the other one going up (which I always figure boxers must do because they punch so damn hard)
(e.g. about the ball of the foot thing, the thai round kick, usually looks like this

Spoiler

)

There'd be reasons to try and make your support leg more stable, like you'd probably not go up so high for a front or side kick but you still need to twist your hips in a bit (least for the side one, where you rotate all the way through from the ground so your heel should turn 90 degrees on your support leg, I never quite got how you engage the hips for a front kick, still working on that one).

I always assumed boxers did something similar but I never got how they stay mobile when power-shots need so much rotation.

 

[Trude]

Sounds like I'm restating what's already been said, but most martial arts are practiced to develop a portfolio of skills.

Spoiler

Kendo for example strengthens dexterity, since it is a sport involving swinging about a large piece of bamboo. You could easily leave it at that but if you want to become proficient in competitive Kendo, physical strength will only get you so far. Fast footwork, timing, posture and impeccable balance are required to convince the referees that you deserve that point. I regard Kendo as a cognitive sport like chess, one that requires as much thought regarding your own movement as your opponent.

That being said, I never expect to find myself in a situation where I'm facing someone wielding a sword, just as a soccer player won't put 'ball player' on his CV when applying for a desk job.

 

[mistahzig1]

I worked as a bouncer for 5 years. Seen/been involved in, say... 200 fights to make it an even number.

Know how many fights I saw that was a clean, 1-on-1 fight?


About 5.

That's it. Reality is not like in movies.

You do NOT kick someone in a fight. The LAST thing you want is to fall down and get your head stomped in.

Grappling? Same thing. While your're schooling your opponent on the ground, his friends with bash your skull in. I even saw someone attempt a triangle-choke on someone and got his balls bitten as a result hahahaha


I would recommend boxing. GREAT for cardio, which is your main goal to get in shape, yes? And practicing getting hit hard on the nugget will help diminish the amount of hesitations and akward postures should you ever get into a real fight.

 

[RoonMian]

-snip-

Ahhh, see, this is interesting, because kicks have the same rotation through the ground that punches do it's tricky to do completely flat and means most kicks are thrown the same you'd do a punch, with the support leg on the ball of the foot (easier to pivot and all that). But conversely punches or particularly powerful ones might have the whole foot down on one leg to add more rotation from the other one going up (which I always figure boxers must do because they punch so damn hard)
(e.g. about the ball of the foot thing, the thai round kick, usually looks like this

Spoiler

)

There'd be reasons to try and make your support leg more stable, like you'd probably not go up so high for a front or side kick but you still need to twist your hips in a bit (least for the side one, where you rotate all the way through from the ground so your heel should turn 90 degrees on your support leg, I never quite got how you engage the hips for a front kick, still working on that one).

I always assumed boxers did something similar but I never got how they stay mobile when power-shots need so much rotation.

Yeah, I see what you mean. That guy is obviously not standing on his full foot. I have to confess I never thought much about kicking because, you know... Kicking is for girls...

You're right, the more oomph you put behind a punch, the less you can move freely. This is somewhat explained away that in lower weight classes, where fighters are more agile, you punch less for effect and more for points. Just notice how for example a fight in bantam weight (up to 56kg) pratically never ends in a KO while in super heavyweight (91kg and up) you sometimes do have knockdowns. Super heavyweights are less mobile over all of course. I never had a proper match I should add, because that was something I was never interested in. My grandfather was super heavyweight ("Wehrsportmeister Superschwergewichtsboxen" in 1938, I think) and my father was light heavyweight (when he didn't have a gut to punch you out with yet) and their styles were already completely different because of that alone even though my grandfather trained my father.

Another factor is to kind of use the rotation of your upper body as a pendulum to hit in combinations with both hands. Your feet are of course somewhat stationary during this but you keep kind of mobile with your upper body.

But beyond that I can't think of anything to actually answer your question. I haven't been practicing in 10 years (inherited my father's paunch) and I was never that mobile a fighter anyway. To me a good footwork was always more about positioning myself well before I strike. Again, I never actually fought beyond sparring and maybe I would've just eaten gloves with that style but in sparrings I did okay.

Edit: For clarification I should add that I am 6'3" and was about 200lbs before I lost all shape and form so I would have been super heavyweight, too.