Masashi Kishimoto is a hack writer.
- Thread starter Mangod
- Start date
Recommended Videos
There is still hope. If Naruto can find the holy Deus Ex Machina of legend then they'll be fine.Mangod said:
Any long running series will have this problem. It's the reason I dropped Lost, Game of Thrones, and Bleach. A well written story should have the plot and ending mapped out from the beginning. Otherwise the series exists solely to perpetuate itself indefinitely, and the writer has to find reasons to continue the "story" long past the point where it should have concluded.
I would like to see the villain win for once. At least that would be unique.
Hunter X Hunter is a shonen made by Yoshihiro Togashi, the same guy who made Yu Yu Hakusho. It's about a boy called Gon as he tries to look for his father and become a great Hunter like his father, although the story is more about his journey to become a great Hunter. It's a very smart shonen as all fights are well thought out and strategic along with the power of the series, Nen, being well established and thought out with each power having it's own set of rules and conditions which leaves out the possibility of random power ups or deus ex machina. The characters are well written and engaging, especially the villains which include a clown who gets aroused by strong people, a murderous group of thieves and an Chimera Ant King trying to take over the world as he slowly starts to develop a human side from playing board games with a blind girl (currently he's now my favourite villain at the moment). So I would highly recommend Hunter x Hunter, it gets pretty dark a lot of the times with a lot of funny moments as well. The anime is still on-going while the manga is currently on a 2 year hiatus with still no signs of it returning.GamerMage said:
I'd totally read that....Mangod said:
It's kinda Final Fantasy 8 non-ending in a way... In that, in FF8 they're time looped, and eventually they do beat the final boss and save the day, but you aren't playing through one of those play throughs.
Ranma 1/2.Casual Shinji said:
While I may not necessarily like the ending, it was intentionally designed by Rumiko Takahashi to be open so the fans can decide what they want as an ending: she was literally encouraging fanfiction.
On Topic:
Naruto is RIDICULOUS, it started when I was in high school (I am almost 30 now) and it clearly is crumbling under it's own weight.
The point of the matter is that Kishimoto fanwanked (pardon the expression) Sasuke too much. He was...tolerable before, when he could still be poked fun at in the anime itself.
But by this point he has long become a parody. I actually stopped reading it years ago but every now and then people tell me about the latest stupidity in it.
(Rant warning)
This is the same problem I have with it and Bleach. Both anime's started with interesting premises, but both rapidly spiraled out of control as their respective creators struggled to out DBZ DBZ. It didn't work.
Their characters stopped being 'cool' and became ridiculous, and now have become parody's of themselves (I'm looking at you Ichigo).
Naruto has been kept somewhat sane (the character) but Sasuke has been blown way out of proportion. He didn't just jump the shark he...
...
I have no words honestly to describe how hilariously bad he's become.
The point is that yes, you're right: Kishimoto is a hack. He should've long seen this coming and stop giving into fan pressure to make Sasuke more cool and more emo and blah blah blah.
He's probably going to pull something stupid right out his bum and pretend it's normal and the fan rage will make the series get even more popular as people flock to it to see the fuss.
I just hope Attack on Titan doesn't do this...
Is it really so hard? What people expect out of a series like Naruto or Dragonball or Bleach is that the main character discovers another level of power and kills the bad guy. There will be no honing of skills, no subtle strategy change, no mindplay or outside influences, and definitely no resolving of differences, Naruto will become a whole level more powerful and that will be enough. Calling it now.
Perhaps ironically, I like Bleach. But anyway.
Gave up on the Naruto series about the time that red-haired Mizukage was introduced, because her along with her two lackeys made me realise what poorly characterised 1-dimensional slogs every character is. There is one that exists only to have their lines misinterpreted as innuendo, one that is unsure of themselves, etc. And the better examples simply gain another trait later, like fat and honourable, or a master strategist. Got real sick of that shit.
Perhaps ironically, I like Bleach. But anyway.
Gave up on the Naruto series about the time that red-haired Mizukage was introduced, because her along with her two lackeys made me realise what poorly characterised 1-dimensional slogs every character is. There is one that exists only to have their lines misinterpreted as innuendo, one that is unsure of themselves, etc. And the better examples simply gain another trait later, like fat and honourable, or a master strategist. Got real sick of that shit.
I think it?s more a problem with the demands of Shounen manga/anime than being a bad writer. I mean, heck, JoJo?s Bizarre Adventure had to literally
before it could continue in a new, Seinen format. And Dragon Ball didn?t have a good ending. Jump had to practically drag Toriyama by his cash-packed buttcheeks by the Boo arc, finishing it with a plothole-filled Deus ex Machina (although, admittedly, Toriyama rarely ever planned his stories ahead)?and even then, Toei couldn?t help but create the atrocity that was DBGT because they apparently hadn?t drained the cash cow enough, to the point that even Vegeta became useless in comparison to the overpowered Gokuu.
And, despite being a Seinen, if you ask me?Berserk has been getting progressively more Shounen ever since the introduction of characters such as Isidro and Schierke, and I honestly think it?s never been the same since about the Golden Age arc. Heck, there are a lot of fans who, when they think of Berserk, they only ever think of the first two arcs (although, this may be partly due to the anime, which only covered those two arcs). It was that fucking good that it?s almost impossible to surpass it. I think the problem is that Miura made the story and its world so big (not to mention that
) that he doesn?t know where to wrap it up after 20 years of working on his best manga. I don?t know how it?ll end, if ever, or even if it?ll live up to everyone?s expectations, since even Berserk at the moment is still better than the majority of mangas? best story arcs.
Actually, you know, scratch what I said about Shounen. It is just long-running series in general, and not just manga either. Family Guy had to kill off one of the most beloved characters as a hoax just to get more publicity. And btw, Fullmetal Alchemist (both versions) doesn?t count because it?s actually a comparatively short series and only really has one arc with a consistent set of protagonists and antagonists.
kill off the main characters of the sixth arc and reboot the fucking universe
And, despite being a Seinen, if you ask me?Berserk has been getting progressively more Shounen ever since the introduction of characters such as Isidro and Schierke, and I honestly think it?s never been the same since about the Golden Age arc. Heck, there are a lot of fans who, when they think of Berserk, they only ever think of the first two arcs (although, this may be partly due to the anime, which only covered those two arcs). It was that fucking good that it?s almost impossible to surpass it. I think the problem is that Miura made the story and its world so big (not to mention that
the sort-of main antagonist, Griffith, is now akin to a New Testament Jesus with fate on his side that it?s hard to see just how Guts or the Skull Knight will be able to defeat him, ignoring the fact that Guts? main goal is to cure Casca of her mental retardation now
Actually, you know, scratch what I said about Shounen. It is just long-running series in general, and not just manga either. Family Guy had to kill off one of the most beloved characters as a hoax just to get more publicity. And btw, Fullmetal Alchemist (both versions) doesn?t count because it?s actually a comparatively short series and only really has one arc with a consistent set of protagonists and antagonists.
I have never been able to understand why so many people like Sasuke. He is number 2 in the fictions biggest douche bag competition (only just losing to Snow from FF 13).Lieju said:
At this point I don't care how things with Madara end, Naruto will either kill him or turn him good with the power of friendship or Madara will die of bordem while Naruto is giving a speach about the power of friendsship, what I want as a last strip is Naruto and all of his friends beating Sasuke to death with extreamly heavy blunt objects. If that happens I will consider it to be the greatest ending in the history of manga/anime.
How many people like Sasuke because they think his character is well written, and how many like him just because he's attractive?
I don't want to paint all of his fans with the same brush, but the Naruto fandom is kind of known for, uh...poorly constructed opinions.
I don't want to paint all of his fans with the same brush, but the Naruto fandom is kind of known for, uh...poorly constructed opinions.
Uratoh said:
I thought it was pretty awesome that if his plan had succeeded, then ultimately nobody would have suffered from it. Every evil thing he had ever done would have been undone. Within a minute - a monster had become understandable. It's just a shame his plan failed miserably... I'd probably have done the computations a few times before the whole mass-murderer thing...
Anyway - I don't see how exactly he has written himself into a corner. He's pulled more ludicrous stuff from his ass before. Something like all the other Bijuu transfering all their chakra to Naruto and having him focus it into kicking Madara's ass? That wouldn't shock me, and it's plausible... you know, cus its Naruto. Anything is f*cking plausible at this point.
Sasuke is still there. He has a sharingan. Sharingan will solve all your problems. Done.
Kakashi can still use his sharingan to warp stuff to other dimensions, right? Use it on Madaras eyes so he can't use his at all.
I just thought of 3 ways to kill Madara, and they could all be done at the same time if need be. And none of them would shock me more than I have been already. Maybe I should finish writing this thing - I'd have it done in 5 chapters.
More or less this. It's too much work to make a tightly crafted series of extraordinary length. Not to mention, it works out, since I am no longer a child with infinite free time to watch stuff in.Johnny Novgorod said:Casual Shinji said:
Nothing beats the 26-ep formula yo. If you can make Bebop on 26 eps the rest is just a waste of time.
I haven't watched or read Naruto, but I've picked up a lot of second hand knowledge about it, and I'm not sure that all of it's problems can be blamed on the writer being forced to extend the story.
One of the most constant complaints I hear about Naruto is that it has a lot of themes, and ends up contradicting most of them. Revenge is bad...except when Shikimaru does it. People control their own destinies...but then Naruto ends up being part of a prophecy, and is distantly related to the guy who invented ninjitsu. You should work hard to achieve your goals...except Naruto and Sasuke both have an ability that gives them a leg up, and someone who actually does work hard like Rock Lee gets his ass kicked more often than not. Those all sound like things that are on the writer, not his bosses.
One of the most constant complaints I hear about Naruto is that it has a lot of themes, and ends up contradicting most of them. Revenge is bad...except when Shikimaru does it. People control their own destinies...but then Naruto ends up being part of a prophecy, and is distantly related to the guy who invented ninjitsu. You should work hard to achieve your goals...except Naruto and Sasuke both have an ability that gives them a leg up, and someone who actually does work hard like Rock Lee gets his ass kicked more often than not. Those all sound like things that are on the writer, not his bosses.
Mangod said:
I'm gonna be that guy and say this; Its not that Madara is unbeatable, its just that Kishimoto went out of his way to make sure that nothing short of *killing* Madara would seal the deal. The problem is, Kishi is too desperate to hold onto the message that he was trying to give to his young readers; killing the bad guy doesn't solve anything. The whole cycle of revenge? Basically a way to tell kids 'don't retaliate, don't kill, don't punish the guy who was mean to you'.
I would commend Kishimoto for sticking to his guns on that message, but he failed to uphold the previous messages. Naruto's screw destiny trope to Neji? Shippuden: Naruto is the Child of Prophecy. Hard work is the only way: Sasuke gets handed everything, Naruto succeeds because of Kurama, and Rock Lee- the epitome of hard work- fails to impact anything.
Kishi is just desperate at this point to not let his final shonen-style message be ripped to shreds by hypocrisy. Odds are he's gonna find a way to make Madara finally realize just how wrong he was and have a mental/emotional breakdown [courtesy of Sasuke, Izuna's look-a-like in the situation]