Mass Effect 2 Ending Moral Choice

[Hazardlife]

I know this is considerably late, considering the game has been out for over half a year now, but something has always bugged me about the moral choice you have to make at the end of Mass Effect 2.

I chose to keep the Collector station intact, and got slapped with a large amount of Renegade points for it. Not that I wasn't aware that this would happen, since the moral choice presented at the end was always going to be Massive Paragon vs. Massive Renegade, but the justification of this seems a little strange to me.

I'm aware that "Paragon" and "Renegade" aren't the same as the standard "Good" and "Evil" that most morality-system games have, but it still seems odd that keeping a trove of advanced technology that might very well save the galaxy intact is considered Renegade, while destroying said trove is considered Paragon.

While the Illusive Man may not be a great fan of species equality, surely it's better that SOMEONE has access to Collector technology that may hold the key to stopping the Reapers, rather than destroying it so NO-ONE can have it and risking dooming us all?

Maybe a better option would have been for Shepard to keep the station intact, but demand that it be turned over to the Council?

I didn't really mind the Renegade points, since although my Shepard is primarily Paragon, I like to rack up a fair amount of Renegade as well (makes for some interesting dialogue options), I'm just questioning the justification of that final choice.

 

[Lacsapix]

I always wonderd if there could be any other humans in the collector's base. So when you blow the base up you accually kill any remaining survivor, thats not really Paragon.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Yeah, but the option at the end of the game you're given is "give a pro-human terrorist group the ability to emulate tech that genocides races" or "destroy this tech and unify the entire galaxy against a threat, using power of numbers and diversity of talents to win".

I chose the second one because in the first game I did all the nice stuff, which apparently means a lot of people are willing to help me, if my foreshadowing emails are correct.

 

[hydrahh]

It's a renegade option because the machine only works by FEEDING IT PEOPLE. Last time I checked, that's evil.

That's why I don't tell people about the dungeon in my basement. All of a sudden, my house is the weird one on the street

 

[everfreeDragon]

I found them fitting for the karma effect. Give the Pro-Human terrorists the power to dominate the galaxy or not give it to them.

edit:

snippity snip

And I was ninja'd

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

There's also the pretty obvious part were you are pretty much going "So this base was built by Reaper technology, the technology that is known for its' pervasive and powerful indoctrination that causes everyone subjected to it for some time to become a servant of the Reapers. Hey, I think we should keep it!"

Even if it doesn't brainwash anyone who tries to work there (read: Cerberus personnel), you are handing over potential of powerful brainwashing to an organization that is, in the subtle words of the Illusive Man himself, 'always looking out for humanity first'. Not to mention all the other technology to be found there. In the Mass Effect universe, this is the real world equivalent of handing over a few dozen Nuclear warheads with ICBMs and the ability to use them to Islamic Jihad and asking them to 'use them with great caution'.

It fits perfectly with the Renegade-attitude of "Anything to get the job done" in that you are putting that power in the hands of an organization that most certainly will abuse it. But they'll at least be helping you before they abuse it.

 

[lolmynamewastaken]

I always wonderd if there could be any other humans in the collector's base. So when you blow the base up you accually kill any remaining survivor, thats not really Paragon.

when you don't destroy it you make sure everything that could be living in it is not at all living by the time you leave. either way, everybody loses
OT: keeping it and handing it to the illusive man is seen as renegade because he told you to do it guess...

 

[HarmanSmith]

I wanted an option to keep it for myself and make it my flagship. Nobody would mess with Shepard with a Collector mothership at his disposal!

 

[Internet Kraken]

While the Illusive Man may not be a great fan of species equality, surely it's better that SOMEONE has access to Collector technology that may hold the key to stopping the Reapers, rather than destroying it so NO-ONE can have it and risking dooming us all?

Not really. Reaper technology is unstable at best. Throughout both games we have seen people traumatized, killed, and mutated as a result of using Reaper technology. Reaper technology is a dangerous thing to mess around with. I wouldn't trust it with anyone, as it could easily do more harm than good.

But now you're giving it to Cerberus. Think about Cerberus projects. Think about how often they have fucked up said projects. They couldn't study a derelict Reaper without getting indoctrinated. What makes you think a facility that produces live Reapers is going to be any better for their mental health? Cerberus will fuck up, as always.

Maybe a better option would have been for Shepard to keep the station intact, but demand that it be turned over to the Council?

This choice makes no sense and I really wonder how much people who say this paid attention to the game. First, The Illusive Man doesn't give a damn about what Shepard actually thinks. He wants that base, and your demands would not convince him to do otherwise. You would have to take it by force. Second, you need an IFF to get through the Omega relay. Cerberus is the only one who has access to the IFF. There's no reason for them to give it to anyone else, so the only way to acquire said IFF would be to steal it from Cerberus. Third, the relay is in the Terminus system. A council fleet moving through the Terminus would result in a war with the governments in the Terminus. The only way they could move through the Terminus would be after long negotiations with all of these governments. And considering how often they change, this probably wouldn't even be possible. Either way it would take a long time. And by then, Cerberus is going to have the whole base fortified and defended, probably using all that wonderful Reaper tech. Fourth, the Council thinks Shepard is crazy. Why would they do anything he asks?

 

[CD-R]

The thing is when the Reapers come they'll probably try and take the base back. I seriously doubt Cerberus can hold them off. Safer to destroy the base than let it fall into the hands of the Reapers again.

 

[Tarakos]

I always give Cerberus the base. It makes sense. And if (alright, when)Cerberus fucks around, then they'll be added to Shepard's list. But only after the Reaper threat is defeated.

 

[maffro]

Paragon and Renegade is more an attitude than an action, I always felt. Neither is really good or evil, but you're given the impression that a true hero would destroy all remnants of the evil collector base, because an evil weapon that has been used for evil is still evil.
While a Renegade recognises that this monstrosity can still be used to the advantage of others and himself.

Neither is specifically good or evil, it just shows your character's outlook and personal morality. This is something I always loved about Mass Effect.

 

[Jiggabyte]

There's also the fact you just commit genocide of an innocent species. Yes they were turning humans into an infant Reaper, but the species was being manipulated by a Reaper. They had little control over their actions.
And yet if you destroy the Geth base, rather than brainwashing them exactly like the Reapers have been doing, you get a Renegade slap in the face?
This is sort of the big problem with morality systems: good and bad are based on opinion, since consequences of actions are never solidly beneficial to everyone and everything.
But then again it isn't so much calling things "good" and "bad" so much as "this is what a morally-bound protaganist would be doing" and "this is what a loose cannon would be doing" so I guess you can't really complain in this instance.
Now let's take Fallout 3. Ah, Fallout 3. You say murdering an old man is a moral thing to do when he's rebuilding society and too old to fend for himself? Oh but stealing from him when he's alive isn't! My my...

 

[Meggiepants]

A lot of posters have already said it, but if you take the Paragon route, the Illusive man pretty much says that he needed the ship in case the other species (Asari, Turians, etc.) should decide to come after the humans.

He had no intention of sharing the technology with any other species besides humans.

That's why it isn't a good or bad choice, but rather a Paragon or Renegade choice. The Renegade would do whatever they needed to in order to save the galaxy. So if a xenophobic human organization says they'll use the technology to defeat the reapers, but refuse to share the tech with the other species (of whom without their help you would never have defeated the reapers in the first place by the way) that's okay. The ends justify the means.

The Paragon on the other hand, will save the universe, but it may take a little bit longer because they don't want collateral damage. They are unwilling to trust such dangerous tech in the hands of the illusive man, and they know they can't keep it themselves as they don't have as much power and influence as the illusive man.

 

[gh0ti]

Paragon and Renegade can be a little hard to figure out at some points in Mass Effect, which is after all, what Bioware were aiming for.

For the renegade, results are all that matter. Hence, killing the bad guy is more important than rescuing the hostages. For the paragon, the ends never justify the means.

That final decision though seemed pretty straightforward to me. Reaper technology is presented like the One Ring from Lord of the Rings. Yes, you could use it for your own gain (or the gain of humanity) but it is inherently evil and whatever your original purpose, it would likely do more harm than good. Everyone who has ever tried to use it has been lost to its power.