Mass Effect 2 Plot Issues **Spoilers**

[Et3rnalLegend64]

Oh, and main point now. It wasn't an indoctrination like you think it is. The Collectors were just abducting humans to create a new Reaper and were never really indoctrinated. They're more like slaves in the more traditional sense of the word. I'd assume the "collect and build new Reaper" thing is how they reproduce and would explain why they end up wiping out civilization every 50k or so years.

I don't think Human-Reaper wasn't supposed to be a draw. Illusive Man just wanted you to start stockpiling on friends to fight with against the Reapers, but you kinda got drawn into the whole "Collectors abducting human colonists" business. Normandy is gonna need some more guns when that Reaper fleet gets in from outside the galaxy, and it already has them in a way.

Wrex is uniting the Krogan (assuming he's alive) and he's on your side. Legion has the True Geth and potentially the "turned" Geth fighting for you. You potentially have the Quarian tech geniuses on your side. If you followed Illusive Man's instructions then you might even have Cerberus on your side with all their shady toys. This wasn't a massive step up in terms of plot, but Shepard is amassing a not-so-small army to fight with. Of course, good luck if you skipped all that. The only people who aren't on your side is the Citadel Counsel, but they aren't very important and the Turian will always be an ass. It'll be satisfying to say, "Hey, watch my army save your asses from the Reapers again. Or maybe I'll just save the rest of the galaxy and leave you to die this time."

 

[EchetusXe]

I thought the main problem was having Shepard die and then somehow brought back to life. Sentient life throughout the known Universe has proved unable to defeat death (the Reapers cheated by becoming half-machine). I guess he died through asphyxiation and his body was preserved, but still. Then what? His corpse is brought back to life by a terrorist organization?! The same terrorists organization rebuild the most advanced spaceship ever (which btw was a joint Turian-human effort in the first place). Not only do they rebuild it, they also double the size and upgrade everything.

Also nobody in the game seems too bothered by it at all.
"Shepard? But you died!!!!!"
"Its a long story."
"Fair does. Hey you want to help me stop these red sand dealers?"

Or worse they just take the piss out of you.

"I've had enough of this place to last a lifetime."
"Or two, in your case."

The worst part is that it is completely unnecessary!!! It isn't that they wrote themselves into a hole and this was the only way out of it. This was at the start of the game! Why not just have him take a vacation for two years, or fruitlessly preaching about the dangers of the Reapers only to give up and join Cerberus as a freelancer?

 

[Rhino of Steel]

When you first see the human reaper you can ask EDI about it as she is patched into the collector network and one of the things she mentions is that the reapers were unable to make a prothean reaper which is why they even bothered to make the collectors. Best guess is that all their trading for genetic samples was to determine who would make the best reaper from the new species or even which were actually capable of being used to make reapers. Evidently humans were settled on as the best or only solution. Puts that virus they released on Omega in a new light too, an easy way to get rid of the useless species while leaving the humans for collection.

I don't really get the objection that ME2 felt like you didn't do anything. At the start the collectors were taking tens of thousands of human colonists and you had no idea why. By the end you've stopped them and killed a reaper in progress. Sure, the main reaper fleet is still out there and still coming but you stopped this plan at least.

I'm just curious whether Harbinger is currently inside the galaxy much like Sovereign was or if he was controlling the collectors from dark space.

 

[jthm]

Meh, I really didn't care, the gameplay was such a huge step up from ME1 that the story took a back seat.

 

[Cody211282]

It's implied that all of the Reapers were created by harvesting races.. so the idea of a "human reaper" isn't that silly when put into context.. Every reaper is basically a "*Some Race* Reaper"

how would it fly? It looked like it would take the form of a fully developed human........

Mass Effect Fields, just like everything else in the galaxy uses.

 

[arcticphoenix95]

It's implied that all of the Reapers were created by harvesting races.. so the idea of a "human reaper" isn't that silly when put into context.. Every reaper is basically a "*Some Race* Reaper"

how would it fly? It looked like it would take the form of a fully developed human........

Mass Effect Fields, just like everything else in the galaxy uses.

no i mean HOW would it fly..........like superman?!?

 

[Inco]

It actually fits together quite nicely once you think about it a bit (read: A lot.)

...Screw ME2 for a second.
Remember the beginning of ME1?
When we first see saren?
Who looks like A FREAKIN CYBORG and the other turian isnt at all perturbed by this fact?
Even though there's a butt load of geth and husks wandering the place?
No alarm bells at all?
Still haven't found an answer for this yet ;_;

Saren doesn't become a cyborg till after you beat him on Virmire, as a way for Soveriegn to maintain control over him and his "faith".
He is a spectre, and they are known for doing things in an unorthadox manner and don't tell anyone else about their motives and where they are. So Nilhus (thats the other i think) assumed that he was sent on the same mission from the council.

 

[Cody211282]

It's implied that all of the Reapers were created by harvesting races.. so the idea of a "human reaper" isn't that silly when put into context.. Every reaper is basically a "*Some Race* Reaper"

how would it fly? It looked like it would take the form of a fully developed human........

Mass Effect Fields, just like everything else in the galaxy uses.

no i mean HOW would it fly..........like superman?!?

No like a super reaper man, so yes.




Wait how awesome would it be to fight something like that, they should have given it a cape!

 

[Petromir]

The reapers reproduce by using genetic material from a species to create a new reaper. So the reason why is to reproduce, the reason why humans, is unclear but probably a mix of genetic suitibility, easy to kidnap from colonys on the border between space controlled by the council races and their allies, and "wild" space, and we did kind of come to their attention in ME1.

 

[Yassen]

I get annoyed when people say that we spend the whole game doing nothing as we end up exactly where we were before. Yes, a new threat is introduced and destroyed at the end of the game, but we did more than that. We found out new information on the reapers, we found allies, both individuals and entire armies. It's all about leading up to ME3. If they answered everything for ME2 there'd be nothing left for the finalie.

I get the distrinct feeling ME3 will involve the culmination of all your choices from the earlier games about how large and capable your army is, sort of like how ME2 had a final mission culminating in how capable your team was. As a side note I think it should actually be possible to loose the war if you make enough bad choices.

Anyway as for the human-reaper, I constantly hear how people say it's not so much reaper as a terminator to which I reply, it's an infant. We don't know how a reaper 'grows' and this human-reaper was in a very early stage of development. It's entirely possible that at first they look like the species from which they're built and as they grow to their typical sizes they take on their more familiar designs.

People also ask what was the point of it in the first place? Remember how sovereign was killed in the first game? Do you remember how only a reaper can take control of the station and let in the reaper fleet? Well building a new reaper was Plan B if sovereign failed. Build a new reaper to attack again, open the relay and viola, we're doomed. Why humans I hear you asking? That's explained time and again. A human killed one of them, possibily for the first time in millions of years. So they had an interest in them as a species to see what made them so distinct.

I'll be happy to answer anymore questions. Bring it on.

 

[Henrik Persson]

"Quarian - Considered due to cybernetic augmentation. Weakened immune system too debilitating."
"Drell - Useless, insufficient numbers."
"Asari - Reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness."
"Salarian - Insufficient lifespan. Fragile genetic structure."
"Krogan - Sterilized race. Potential wasted."
"Turian - Were considered too primitive."
"Human - Viable possibiliy. Impressive genetic malleability."
"Human - Viable possibiliy. Aggression factor useful if controlled."
"Human - Viable possibiliy. Impressive technical potential."
"Human - Viable possibiliy. Great biotic potential."
"Human - Viable possibiliy, if emotional drives are subjugated."

Don't you people listen?

 

[Calgetorix]

"Quarian - Considered due to cybernetic augmentation. Weakened immune system too debilitating."
"Drell - Useless, insufficient numbers."
"Asari - Reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness."
"Salarian - Insufficient lifespan. Fragile genetic structure."
"Krogan - Sterilized race. Potential wasted."
"Turian - Were considered too primitive."
"Human - Viable possibiliy. Impressive genetic malleability."
"Human - Viable possibiliy. Aggression factor useful if controlled."
"Human - Viable possibiliy. Impressive technical potential."
"Human - Viable possibiliy. Great biotic potential."
"Human - Viable possibiliy, if emotional drives are subjugated."

Don't you people listen?

Where did you get that from?

 

[oliveira8]

Where did you get that from?

It's from Harbinger. It's random dialog lines he spouts during combat.

 

[Sol_HSA]

Browsing through this thread did give me some kind of idea what ME3 will be about.
In ME2 you recruit specialists; in ME3 you'll recruit armies (/species).

"only together shall we survive the reapers", kind of thing.

Hm, sort of reminds me of dragon age, actually..

 

[Indecipherable]

It really didn't feel like Mass Effect 2 was intended as a sequel to Mass Effect. There's two main points about why I feel this way:

1. The collectors are completely new. If the plot of Mass Effect 2 was already in existance, it would have made sense to have at least foreshadowed their existance. Unless I was missing some crucial clues along the way, the collectors feel entirely 'made up' and had no mention in Mass Effect 1. When they are introduced, suddenly a reasonable amount of people actually know about them?

2. The start of Mass Effect 2 is disconnected to the end of Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 1 wraps things up nicely. Mass Effect 2 begins with a very awkward "oh... we need a bit of a blank slate to start developing stories here again" and involves a death sequence / reconstruction that neatly puts your team far away from you and starts right over.

As for what was "accomplished" in Mass Effect 2? The platform for the next Mass Effect. It does set a pretty tough precedent to follow with the sheer volume of followers you have. I bet a lot of people will be disappointed with this because the amount of work required to let you recruit all of them and have them with meaningful interactions means that surely some of them "won't make it" for whatever reasons. I did find the whole 'introduce new race in a totally cold fashion and then have them gone by the end' to be more of a trick that a TV series would have as a one-shot episode rather than something properly fleshed out from the start.

 

[EchetusXe]

The collectors are completely new. If the plot of Mass Effect 2 was already in existance, it would have made sense to have at least foreshadowed their existance. Unless I was missing some crucial clues along the way, the collectors feel entirely 'made up' and had no mention in Mass Effect 1. When they are introduced, suddenly a reasonable amount of people actually know about them?

The collectors are a big part of Mass Effect: Ascension. I'm pretty sure in Mass Effect 1 they have a codex entry too.

A reasonable amount of civilians know about them because they are thought of as mythical creatures. Nobody mentions them in the first game because that would like talking about unicorns, the Easter bunny or Jesus or something.

 

[Indecipherable]

The collectors are completely new. If the plot of Mass Effect 2 was already in existance, it would have made sense to have at least foreshadowed their existance. Unless I was missing some crucial clues along the way, the collectors feel entirely 'made up' and had no mention in Mass Effect 1. When they are introduced, suddenly a reasonable amount of people actually know about them?

The collectors are a big part of Mass Effect: Ascension. I'm pretty sure in Mass Effect 1 they have a codex entry too.

A reasonable amount of civilians know about them because they are thought of as mythical creatures. Nobody mentions them in the first game because that would like talking about unicorns, the Easter bunny or Jesus or something.

I don't remember anything about them in ME1. My issue is that as a plot device they are just simply "there" all of a sudden. A good story would at least hint at their existance, instead we just find this artificial excuse for an enemy.

In other news, ME 1 & 2 are excellent.

 

[BakaMick]

In the imortal words of Johnny Corcoran:

OK, I liked ME 1 & 2 but I just wanted to use that picure, and I think that, depending on the ending you chose, there will be differnt ways to deal with the Reapers in ME3, i.e. if you destroyed the Collecter Home Base or not.

 

[Daedalus1942]

**MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD**

Don't read ahead if you haven't finished ME2/don't care

Anyway, I felt that the plot in ME2 didn't really go anywhere. What I mean is, by the end of ME1 you've stopped the Reapers' indoctrination of the Geth/Saren, and the issue (presumably left for ME2) becomes what to do about the Reapers specifically.

But, in ME2 the Reapers indoctrinate a new species (The Collectors via the Protheans) and basically the entire game is spent stopping that problem without really advancing the more important (and IMO more interesting) issue of the Reapers. Of course, you learn that the Reapers were using the Collectors to harvest humans so they can build a Human-Reaper (lolwut?). But I don't remember it being answered why they built a Human-Reaper( maybe someone else does).

Basically, I think the Human-Reaper was supposed to be the big plot-draw of the game, but I thought it was kinda silly and unsatisfying. And, at the end of ME2 you're essentially in the same place you were at the end of ME1: prevented a Reaper-indoctrination threat and developing a plan for the Reapers themselves.

I know this is a trilogy and I wasn't expecting an all-out war with the Reapers, but I would have liked a little bit more development of the Reapers and the overall senteient-life threatening issues presented in the 1st game.

Anyway, did anyone else feel similarly afterwards, or did they like the plot, or whatever?

and,it's more than likely that I missed some important developments too.

The plot for ME2 was a load of shit, and didn't even try to coincide with the events of the first game. Drew Karphyshyn should be shot and replaced for the 3rd game.
They included stupid things from the books also (that no-one except people like I knew about).
No-one who didn't read the books knew wh TiM was.
That was a pointless introduction and he wasn't even hinted or fucking alluded to it the first game. There are not enough bad things I can say about Mass Effect II (not just the plot).. there really aren't.