Mass Effect 3: DAM* IT ALL!!

[Ian Caronia]

This thread is for ME3 talks and discussion between those who fully want the game, those who hate it, and those who, like me, feel torn over it. It's not about Alice. But, to be clear:

Know what I'm playing now? Alice: Madness Returns.

....

The premise [of Mass Effect] is ripped-off

erm...

You know that 'Alice' game you're playing?

It's premise? Not exactly unique.

Hah Well there's no actual proof (anyone can find for me) that the idea of "Alice's family dies after the events of the first two novels and goes half insane, then tries to regain her true sanity while traversing the now twisted landscape of a warped Wonderland." So, I can't agree with you there.

What, you mean like "American McGee's Alice?"

The game "Madness Returns" is a sequel of?

Also, leave us be honest, here, "protagonist is lost in fantasy" is a very, very old literary trope.

You haven't found any examples of "protagonist is lost in fantasy"? None whatsoever?

Really?

Have you been looking?

That's not what I said at all, mate. I stated the premise of the story. Not the theme. The broad theme is what you stated, and as I said, rarely is a theme original.
_Also, a sequel isn't a rip-off of the original if it's made to be a continuation, which it is. It's meant to be a direct continuation from the first game. That's somewhat like saying book 3 of the LOTR series is a rip-off of book 2...which in turn ripped off book 1.

What you mean to say is you recognize that Alice is exactly as derivative as most other games you have ever played, but the difference is that you, yourself, enjoy it enough not to mind the derivation.

I said what I meant and I meant what I said [sub]for I'm Popeye the Sailor Man *toot toot*[/sub]

Yes, that is how many of us ME fans view the Mass Effect series. It's a standard space opera, but it's well written and has great characters. We understand that the games are not trying to break new ground, they are only trying to

Firstly, Bioware execs keep saying they are breaking new ground, and reviewers keep saying it's breaking new ground. So, yes, it's trying to break new ground.
_It's not a space opera anymore. It was meant to be one, but it's simple action movie-grade stuff now.
_Personally I think the writing is abysmal OUTSIDE OF the characters, but aside from the science in ME2 being factually stupid in numerous areas, that's just my thoughts. As stated in my reply to Bara No Hime, no matter what they think of ME on a whole (love it, hate it, etc.), the vast majority believes the best thing ME has going is the cast. Also: No, having a good cast does not mean you have a good story. Though they should, the two do not always go hand in hand.

Sort of like how Alice "pays homage" to the Lewis Carroll original stories, but basically has absolutely fuckall to do with any of them?

It's not a real reimagining, you know. It's a story that takes place after the Carroll novels. It's not rewriting the Carroll novels, but continuing on with the idea "what happened after that, if...?" Though it'll have nods, as any good continuation should, it's reason for existing isn't meant as an homage, and if anyone ever stated that, even McGee himself (if he did), they were talking stupid since, as you pointed out, it's a different story.

 

[Ian Caronia]

Anyway, I of course mean no disrespect to anyone who isn't torn over ME3. It's also funny that, for every point we disagree on with Mass Effect, both you and I, as well as mostly everyone else who's played ME1&2, can always agree that we keep coming back for the characters. Hope your FemShep shacks up with Tali, who better be on the team the whole game or SO HELP ME GOD-

^^ Yes, that would be very nice. ^^

Oh, and on the Illusive Man, there was a theory that was bandied about where they could get him to hate you either way.

Paragon: you blew it up
Renegade: you didn't blow it up - Illusive Man indoctrinated by what you didn't blow up.

Actually, I'm betting that the Illusive Man has been indoctrinated either way. I think he's going to be ME3's Saren. "Humanity will Survive by Submitting!" It certainly explains why Cerberus is bloody everywhere in ME3.

...Welp, that's a lot better, actually. I had forgotten about indoctrination since it was barely even mentioned in ME2. And considering TIM is such a powerful figure...
huh I'm starting to feel less torn over ME3 already, though I still have doubts the story writers will be so clever. Meh, I'm probably just being pessimistic there.
See what I mean by saying I wished you were on the staff of Mass Effect? XD

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

...Welp, that's a lot better, actually. I had forgotten about indoctrination since it was barely even mentioned in ME2. And considering TIM is such a powerful figure...
huh I'm starting to feel less torn over ME3 already, though I still have doubts the story writers will be so clever. Meh, I'm probably just being pessimistic there.
See what I mean by saying I wished you were on the staff of Mass Effect? XD

^^ I'll take that as the immense compliment it is. ^^

Now if only I can get Bioware to hire me. ^^

Of course, if they do... oh my. ^^

 

[Foxblade618]

I'll be perfectly honest: I started with ME 2 and I loved it. After completing that game, I went and bought ME 1 to go through the both games and loved it equally (not more, not less). They streamlined the ME experience and ME 2 was better for it. RPG elitists need to stop complaining about mechanics innovation - statistical tedium an RPG should not be. There is more to an RPG than menus and item management.

And Bioware is a character driven company, their stories have basically all been done before - it's their characters that make the stories unique and make the experience worthwhile, and that is what they do well.

ME3 has all the potential to be fantastic and probably will be one of the best stories delivered in gaming. Call me a fanboy, I don't care, but don't expect me to acknowledge your skewed vision of RPGing as valid or that if a game betters itself mechanically that it's automatically an affront to your intelligence and its roots.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I'll be perfectly honest: I started with ME 2 and I loved it. After completing that game, I went and bought ME 1 to go through the both games and loved it equally (not more, not less). They streamlined the ME experience and ME 2 was better for it. RPG elitists need to stop complaining about mechanics innovation - statistical tedium an RPG should not be. There is more to an RPG than menus and item management.

And Bioware is a character driven company, their stories have basically all been done before - it's their characters that make the stories unique and make the experience worthwhile, and that is what they do well.

ME3 has all the potential to be fantastic and probably will be one of the best stories delivered in gaming. Call me a fanboy, I don't care, but don't expect me to acknowledge your skewed vision of RPGing as valid or that if a game betters itself mechanically that it's automatically an affront to your intelligence and its roots.

I don't know about one of the best stories delivered in gaming - I really like Mass Effect 2, but it's no Planescape: Torment. From this year even, I thought Witcher 2 had a better story and Deus Ex 3 probably will too. I do agree with you that it's up there, though, and the many of the little episodic bits are very good*. What I'm looking forward to is the characters and the gameplay.

*Now, if every part of ME3 is like Legion, Tali, or Mordin's loyalty missions, they add meaningful interactions between squaddies, and they focus more on making the romances plausible than on making the fans gigglesquee, you will have no argument from me that it will be among the best.

 

[OManoghue]

I'm still looking forward to it. They've been saying they are adding more customization to ME3 than there was in ME3 and skill trees, which is fine by me.

As long as squad mates from ME2 don't die between games or in cinematics I'm down as fuck for ME3.

 

[spartan231490]

I almost felt this way, but I'm just gonna watch my friends play instead. then maybe, maybe, I'll buy a copy used.
The Role playing parts of ME2 were an insult, they truly had absolutely no impact on anything.

Spoiler

Because he is (and he is) a dick and because he will do anything to ensure tha humanity dominates (see Mass Effect Evolution comics for more details) he will betray you. I believe Bioware already announced this and thats why you're pissed. He will betray you if you handed him the collector base or not because (probably) you're the only threat left to him. Did you see the way you end your last conversation with him?

No. Having important details of the games and the game's characters revealed in a different medium does not cut it.

It didn't cut it with Halo and its novels, it doesn't cut it with whatever Mass Effect is doing.

Unless telling people to read other forms of media for important things to know in-game is accepted now, in which case I now have a new argument for people who say Halo's story isn't too deep.

Oh, Bioware's writers write the comics, so I'm just assuming that they all have connections with ingame plots because (at least) the Mass Effect Redemption comic directly relates to Liara and the Shadowbroker dlc as well as the beginning of Mass Effect 2. Matter of fact on the cover of both Redemption and Evolution it says "from the lead writer of Mass Effect 2".
I'm assuming that whoever did Halo's other form of media that you're talking about wasn't one of the writer?

Meh, as an RPG series, Mass Effect was never very good, but looking at them as action games they are great.

I think something is backwards here.

No, they aren't good. I don't how you can call them good RPGs, because BioWare remove any pretensions of being more of an RPG than an action game once they released 2.

It's not any more of an RPG than an action game. Bioware are trying to combine both Action and RPG elements in Mass Effect. Which is why people like (and/or hate) it so much.
RPG = Role Playing Game
You are definately PLAYING a ROLE in the Mass Effect GAMES.

But if we're going to argue about it read these:
http://missmokushiroku.tumblr.com/post/6307829109/mass-effect-2-isnt-an-rpg
http://www.gamerswithcasts.com/the-mass-effect-effect-a-game-changer-for-rpgs/
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/5952/is-mass-effect-3-an-rpg-x360-has-the-answer

But as far as I'm concerned ME2 wasn't any less of a RPG than ME1 just because they added better gameplay mechanics.

By you're logic, Halo was an RPG. You're playing a role in that too, the role of a military trump card. You even get to pick which weapons you carry, and which grenades you use.