Mass Effect 3 ending SPOILERS!

[synobal]

Yes because being able to free all the species from continuous enslavement and live isn't a good ending

A good ending is one that wraps up the story in a satisfying manner.

A game like ME bases everything on your decisions, on the relationships you build with the wonderful characters, the influences you have on the fantastic and detailed worlds they built.

In the end, all of that meant nothing. Absolutely nothing. 3 bleak, devastating endings. All my effort and 200 hours of love, gone in the most disappointing 5 minutes of my entire life as a gamer.

The wrapping up of the characters story arcs was what you did through out the entirety of Mass effect 3, end very end of Mass effect 3 was for the wrapping up of the plot.

 

[sonofliber]

Yes because being able to free all the species from continuous enslavement and live isn't a good ending

stargodchild says your argument is a lie, since the circle repeats itself, so no, they actually assure they extintion.

ps: dark and edgy =/= good and profound story

ps2: technology =/= evil or bad

you know what a true dark and edgy ending would be?, the catalys didnt work and the reapers won, there.

 

[Jarod Frye]

A game like ME bases everything on your decisions, on the relationships you build with the wonderful characters, the influences you have on the fantastic and detailed worlds they built

THIS, is what people seem to forget about what is wrong with the Mass Effect 3 ending.

It's another Example of How Video Game storytelling, and Writing storytelling are NOT one and the same.

In a Book this would be a perfect ending, however in Video games where Visuals matter to the player. The fact that you did all of that, and made the choice at the end. Only to get no VISUAL sense on the choices you had beforehand making any impact to the people you talked to, the people you decided to save?

That is the problem.

You did NOT see If all of the races survived their respected reaper attacks. You did NOT see if the geth and of EDI were truly annihilation in some ending. You did NOT see if The Turians and Krogans have finally found peace within one another. Yes you certainly heard about all of this, but you never saw it with your own eyes, Games are a visual medium, and just hearing it from a character does not just say that everything will become fine.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Yes because being able to free all the species from continuous enslavement and live isn't a good ending

stargodchild says your argument is a lie, since the circle repeats itself, so no, they actually assure they extintion.

ps: dark and edgy =/= good and profound story

ps2: technology =/= evil or bad

you know what a true dark and edgy ending would be?, the catalys didnt work and the reapers won, there.

The catalyst also believed that no one would be able to break the cycle also, and we proved it wrong there.

Also I didn't imply dark and edgy = good or profound

or that technology = good or bad.

 

[sonofliber]

The wrapping up of the characters story arcs was what you did through out the entirety of Mass effect 3, end very end of Mass effect 3 was for the wrapping up of the plot.

actually wrapping up = fallout 1 & 2 endings, or DOA one, when they actually tells you what happens to them AFTER the events of the game, here we dont even know if they are alive.

 

[SajuukKhar]

actually wrapping up = fallout 1 & 2 endings, or DOA one, when they actually tells you what happens to them AFTER the events of the game, here we dont even know if they are alive.

then in Fallout New Vegas they tell you all our choices are negated becuase the devs wanted something specific to happen.

fallout 1 and 2 did not have closure of any kind because 80% of what you could have picked gets negated by the devs invalidating anything you could have done beyond choosing the Devs specific endings.

 

[Nieroshai]

Remember Garrus and Tali will also die since they cannot surive there.

Well, Jacob's dad managed to last for ten years eating the food on his ship and the Normandy had a stock of food for them. Who knows, maybe they'll be able to grow some dextro food from some seeds that they- dear lord am I defending this?

Well if you wanna be really sadistic maybe Tali and Garrus will be fine, maybe everyone ELSE will die...WTF Bioware. I used to be on your side.

Well... in the games, it is mentioned many times that what's safe for the rest of the galaxy is actually a fast-acting poison to the turians and quarians. The weakest human beer would leave a turian vomiting blood. They simply cannot process anything not meant for them. Even if they don't die from poisoning, they'd die from starvation onnce the special rations ran out.

 

[sonofliber]

the catalyst also believed that no one would be able to break the cycle also.

Also I didnt imply dark and edgy = good

or that technology = good or bad.

got those feeling from your other post (specially the ones when you say that it was k to blow up reaper tech)


i think the main issue is the lack of closure for the serie they should have gone with the fallout 1,2 or DOA rout and actually made an ending wrapping things up (but they kind of screw it with blowing up the relays, its pretty much this = earth (war with the rest of the species for control of the resourses), krogan home planet (civil war millions of deaths), non agricultural worlds (death by civil war + starvation), agricultural world (death because lack of genetic material of they florish), homeworld (war or starvation or extintion or they are k).

ps: WHY THE **** WAS JOKER RUNNING WHEN THERE WAS A BATTLE GOING ON (specially when he felt so guilty of leaving shepard the other time)?????????

 

[sonofliber]

actually wrapping up = fallout 1 & 2 endings, or DOA one, when they actually tells you what happens to them AFTER the events of the game, here we dont even know if they are alive.

then in Fallout New Vegas they tell you all our choices are negated becuase the devs wanted something specific to happen.

fallout 1 and 2 did not have closure of any kind because 80% of what you could have picked gets negated by the devs invalidating anything you could have done beyond choosing the Devs specific endings.

actually when they came out they DID have a closure you know what happened to the citys and people

 

[SajuukKhar]

got those feeling from your other post (specially the ones when you say that it was k to blow up reaper tech)


i think the main issue is the lack of closure for the serie they should have gone with the fallout 1,2 or DOA rout and actually made an ending wrapping things up (but they kind of screw it with blowing up the relays, its pretty much this = earth (war with the rest of the species for control of the resourses), krogan home planet (civil war millions of deaths), non agricultural worlds (death by civil war + starvation), agricultural world (death because lack of genetic material of they florish), homeworld (war or starvation or extintion or they are k).

ps: WHY THE **** WAS JOKER RUNNING WHEN THERE WAS A BATTLE GOING ON (specially when he felt so guilty of leaving shepard the other time)?????????

Yes because
-Stopping the reapers, and thus saving all organic life from a endless cycle of genocide
-Freeing the civilizations of the galaxy from the technological slavery of the Mass relays
-Allowing civilizations to build down their own path incited of one chosen for them

isnt closure to the series?

Also did you not pay attention to the cutscene were a GIANT BEAM OF DEATH was heading right for him?

 

[Immsys]

1.
They clearly do care when, since they repeat their actions without fail every 50,000 years. If they all just up and left, they wouldn't be stopping ALL LIFE from making synthetic life would they? Even if they are just "in another galaxy" they still aren't fulfilling their function of stopping intelligent life from building synthetics at all, they are letting it happen. Something that their programming will not allow.

2.
A sense of self preservation does not equal them doing ANYTHING to survive. You have a sense of self-preservation, however it would be false to suggest that you would do anything to lead to your own existence, wouldn't it? The Reapers cannot, I mean physically cannot, disobey their programming in any way, unless it is deprogrammed (as in your example of Legion). Such is impossible without malfunction, which is counted under deprogramming. For example, all living beings have self preservation. However, some beings go into situations that they knowingly accept they will die in. Therefore, we can conclude some beings with self preservation are capable of accepting death as a consequence and still fulfilling their own will.

1. Well if that is true, then there already letting synthetic life form in other galaxy's and are defying there programing by not acting there. So no, they don't care.
2. I think by self preservation, I meant sense of objective fulfillment. they will do anything to complete there objective, but more importantly to this point, they will do anything to keep themselves from failing it. if they are destroyed, they have failed there objective. it just so happens that one of there objectives IS self preservation. this means that there sense of it is even stronger then in organics.

You seem to assume that A. there is life in other galaxies and B. that the cycle for other planets isn't done in a different timescale (i.e. the galaxy we see is purged at the equivalent of 4000 or what ever time, other galaxy is purged at 4010, next at 4020 etc.)

Self preservation is only important in so far as it allows them to complete their objective, which is wiping out life if they leave, while they survive, they are not fulfilling objective one, which they cannot fail. Reapers, if there was a way to kill them outside of the doom weapons at the ending, would probably fight until the end. As life for them, under programming has no meaning whatsoever if they do not succeed in wiping out life.

 

[synobal]

The wrapping up of the characters story arcs was what you did through out the entirety of Mass effect 3, end very end of Mass effect 3 was for the wrapping up of the plot.

actually wrapping up = fallout 1 & 2 endings, or DOA one, when they actually tells you what happens to them AFTER the events of the game, here we dont even know if they are alive.

We don't know, but that isn't bad. I can't get my head around why people seem to think this is so terrible. The characters arcs were brought to a satisfying end in the game, so if they were dead well at least they died what they intended to do.

The ending is about hope and possibilities, as opposed to the entire game that is dark and a fight to stop the mass genocide of all technologically advanced species in the galaxy.

IT IS A GOOD ENDING

it just isn't what you've been trained to think of as an ending by both Bioware, other video games and movies.

 

[sonofliber]

Yes because
-Stopping the reapers, and thus saving all organic life from a endless cycle of genocide
-Freeing the civilizations of the galaxy from the technological slavery of the Mass relays
-Allowing civilizations to build down their own path incited of one chosen for them

isnt closure to the series?

Also did you not pay attention to the cutscene were a GIANT BEAM OF DEATH was heading right for him?

1 ok

2, they will probably recreate the relay technology (it is the best way they can travel thru space, they know it and have worked with it)

3 you miss the millions of more, that will die because of the lack of MR (by starvation, civil war, etc.. etc..)(funny thing if they didnt blow up the MR most of this could be avoided)

its implied that the giant beam of death was because they jumped in the mass relay (in the solar systems its shown as a shockwave)

 

[sonofliber]

We don't know, but that isn't bad. I can't get my head around why people seem to think this is so terrible. The characters arcs were brought to a satisfying end in the game, so if they were dead well at least they died what they intended to do.

The ending is about hope and possibilities, as opposed to the entire game that is dark and a fight to stop the mass genocide of all technologically advanced species in the galaxy.

IT IS A GOOD ENDING

it just isn't what you've been trained to think of as an ending by both Bioware, other video games and movies.

thats is if you ignore the MILLIONS that will die because of no MR, seriously (ignoring the hole starchild out of nowhere thing), the MR destruction basically made a new dark age for the galaxy, technology regresion, starvation, civil war, etc.. etc.., its not a good ending.

 

[synobal]

We don't know, but that isn't bad. I can't get my head around why people seem to think this is so terrible. The characters arcs were brought to a satisfying end in the game, so if they were dead well at least they died what they intended to do.

The ending is about hope and possibilities, as opposed to the entire game that is dark and a fight to stop the mass genocide of all technologically advanced species in the galaxy.

IT IS A GOOD ENDING

it just isn't what you've been trained to think of as an ending by both Bioware, other video games and movies.

thats is if you ignore the MILLIONS that will die because of no MR, seriously (ignoring the hole starchild out of nowhere thing), the MR destruction basically made a new dark age for the galaxy, technology regresion, starvation, civil war, etc.. etc.., its not a good ending.

Think, really really think about what would of happened if the relays had been still operational after the massive threat of the reapers had just gutted galactic society and just about every form of government. Essentially the galaxy would of been one huge power vacuum with every petty tyrant and dictator out there trying to create his own galactic kingdom.

Every race needs that time after the reapers to reestablish themselves and sort themselves out before they find their way back onto the galactic scene. Otherwise many many more would of likely died from the centuries of fighting.

That is not to say that the races won't war with themselves. How ever on a whole I think most species are less likely to start a civil war when they know that aliens are out there and could possible show up any time. Except maybe the Krogan, but they most of all need the time to reestablish themselves. I hope Wrex made it back to Tuchanka prior to that massive shockwave.

 

[sonofliber]

Think, really really think about what would of happened if the relays had been still operational after the massive threat of the reapers had just gutted galactic society and just about every form of government. Essentially the galaxy would of been one huge power vacuum with every petty tyrant and dictator out there trying to create his own galactic kingdom.

Every race needs that time after the reapers to reestablish themselves and sort themselves out before they find their way back onto the galactic scene. Otherwise many many more would of likely died from the centuries of fighting.

That is not to say that the races won't war with themselves. How ever on a whole I think most species are less likely to start a civil war when they know that aliens are out there and could possible show up any time. Except maybe the Krogan, but they most of all need the time to reestablish themselves. I hope Wrex made it back to Tuchanka prior to that massive shockwave.

and how isnt that extremely awesome to see?, perhaps its because thats what i wanted to see, what happens after the reapers are defeated does the geth/quarian alliance keep up? or another war breaks out (perhaps with help of the salarian (they dont want another powerful force in the galaxy), does the krogan become like their ancestors or they follow their agressive instincts?, basically every decision you had affected the post-end game (krogans becoming more peacefull if you had eve live if not they will have another krogan rebellion (changing in the date and the galaxy preparation depending if wrex is alive or not, rachi helping stop them if they are alive).

writting these paragaphs made me realice why i trully didnt like the endings (beside plot holes), they were just huge reset buttons, no real perception of what you did change the political face of the galaxy.

also it doesnt help that most of us grew extremely attached to the mc and its crew, and wanted a happy ending for them after all the shit they went thru.

 

[SajuukKhar]

1 ok

2, they will probably recreate the relay technology (it is the best way they can travel thru space, they know it and have worked with it)

3 you miss the millions of more, that will die because of the lack of MR (by starvation, civil war, etc.. etc..)(funny thing if they didnt blow up the MR most of this could be avoided)

its implied that the giant beam of death was because they jumped in the mass relay (in the solar systems its shown as a shockwave)

And this time the Mass Relays will be built by OUR hands, using OUR methods, and OUR technology, which makes all the difference.

Countless people die daily anyways, your are ignoring that beyond the fact that millions died, which is a war of this size is to be expected, TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS more will get to live free from the seemingly endless technological enslavement that has ruled the galaxy for eons.

umm no, watch the cutscene again, the beam shoots out of the citadel, heads for the mass relay, Joker and the Normandy are in between them, joker flies into the relay to try to outrun it, the beam hits them during the relay jump, they crash land on the planet.

 

[Sera]

Well I'm pretty proud of myself, I got 9 pages into the thread before I felt I needed to speak up.

I finished ME3, and was very depressed/upset/angry about it, and after reading some people's (SajuukKhar and Synobal's in particular) interpretations/explanations of why it was done the way it was, I can see the logic and sense behind it. I am, however, still depressed/upset and angry about it.

I entirely get that destroying the Mass Relays was the best thing that could happen, and that this opens the door for entire new swathes of progress and self-determinism for every race in the galaxy, and I don't subscribe to the belief that because vast numbers of Turians and Quarians were at Earth at the time of the shitstorm, their races are doomed. It will be interesting, if they make a Mass Effect 4, to see a brand new universe sprung up from the ashes of the previous one, and the ending truly was bittersweet in that sense.

However, what does make me, and I think most people who are upset with the ending, angry is that you have no other choice. Mass Effect, as a game series (not going into the themes and so on here), has always been about (for me) making decisions, which could be right, could be wrong, and in the end you just have to wear it either way. My main gripe with the ending is that it robs me of the choice to make the "bad" decision (i.e. kill the Reapers, the Mass Relays remain, galactic civilisation continues to be bound by the Reaper's technology), and forces my hand, something that a game series based around determining the fate of the universe via your own choices should not have done.

I wanted a cliché happy ending where I see Shepard and Tali living in their home on the Quarian homeworld, and they have Garrus around for dinner some nights. The fact that this ending isn't even a possibility, even if it's infeasible and, in most respects, a bad thing for the universe as a whole, sort of ruins the entire concept of choice that the games were built around.

I wouldn't care if Mass Effect 4 treats the "relays destroyed/everything goes back a few centuries and all the races have to re-discover space travel for themselves" as canon, but for fucks sake, let me have my happy ending. This isn't a novel where I have to deal with the one ending I get given, this is a game, and on top of that, a game that touts choice and decision as defining factors of itself. The fact that the ending flew in the face of all of that is what upset me, anyway.

Just my two cents on why the ending has polarised the fans so much, let me know if it struck a chord or not.

 

[sonofliber]

And this time the Mass Relays will be built by OUR hands, using OUR methods, and OUR technology, which makes all the difference.

Countless people die daily anyways, your are ignoring that beyond the fact that millions died, which is a war of this size is to be expected, TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS more will get to live free from the seemingly endless technological enslavement that has ruled the galaxy for eons.

umm no, watch the cutscene again, the beam shoots out of the citadel, heads for the mass relay, Joker and the Normandy are in between them, joker flies into the relay to try to outrun it, the beam hits them during the relay jump, they crash land on the planet.

nope, look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGL9b0i_tpI

it will still be reaper tech, and perhaps the galaxy will be enslave by a different race or wipe out by another alien race with no possible way of uniting to fight it since there isnt any MR (or perhaps of the time lost regaining the knoledge of the MR gave the species less time to develop better technologies.

 

[synobal]

Well I'm pretty proud of myself, I got 9 pages into the thread before I felt I needed to speak up.

I finished ME3, and was very depressed/upset/angry about it, and after reading some people's (SajuukKhar and Synobal's in particular) interpretations/explanations of why it was done the way it was, I can see the logic and sense behind it. I am, however, still depressed/upset and angry about it.

I entirely get that destroying the Mass Relays was the best thing that could happen, and that this opens the door for entire new swathes of progress and self-determinism for every race in the galaxy, and I don't subscribe to the belief that because vast numbers of Turians and Quarians were at Earth at the time of the shitstorm, their races are doomed. It will be interesting, if they make a Mass Effect 4, to see a brand new universe sprung up from the ashes of the previous one, and the ending truly was bittersweet in that sense.

However, what does make me, and I think most people who are upset with the ending, angry is that you have no other choice. Mass Effect, as a game series (not going into the themes and so on here), has always been about (for me) making decisions, which could be right, could be wrong, and in the end you just have to wear it either way. My main gripe with the ending is that it robs me of the choice to make the "bad" decision (i.e. kill the Reapers, the Mass Relays remain, galactic civilisation continues to be bound by the Reaper's technology), and forces my hand, something that a game series based around determining the fate of the universe via your own choices should not have done.

I wanted a cliché happy ending where I see Shepard and Tali living in their home on the Quarian homeworld, and they have Garrus around for dinner some nights. The fact that this ending isn't even a possibility, even if it's infeasible and, in most respects, a bad thing for the universe as a whole, sort of ruins the entire concept of choice that the games were built around.

I wouldn't care if Mass Effect 4 treats the "relays destroyed/everything goes back a few centuries and all the races have to re-discover space travel for themselves" as canon, but for fucks sake, let me have my happy ending. This isn't a novel where I have to deal with the one ending I get given, this is a game, and on top of that, a game that touts choice and decision as defining factors of itself. The fact that the ending flew in the face of all of that is what upset me, anyway.

Just my two cents on why the ending has polarised the fans so much, let me know if it struck a chord or not.

I can understand people being upset, but the entire tone of Mass effect 3 was pretty much setting you up for that choice you didn't want to make. I literally sat in front of my screen for five minutes thinking and then moving towards one and then another option. In the end there were no good options and it takes balls to do that. There were choices and it effected the game, some of the choices that seemed big at the time weren't as big as I thought and some that seemed small turned out to have interesting repercussions.

There is a difference between being upset and all this raging I see going on, it is a perfectly good ending all three of them are. My creative writing teacher paraphrased someone at one point that said this 'the only happily ever after that can happen in a story is where you stop it.' Lets face it Shepherd didn't have a peaceful retirement ahead of him. If he hadn't died in the end, he would of died later in some military operation for the alliance.