Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut is not victory.

[octafish]

Deus Ex and it's diverse three endings begat Invisible War. It can be done, doesn't mean it will be good. I always thought that they would make more games in the Mass Effect universe but not directly relating to the trilogy.

Wait, you're kidding, right? Mass Effect 3's endings follow the same formula as Deus Ex. Choose Control, Integrate, or Destroy(A, B, or C), your previous choices don't matter for shit, enjoy a tiny chunk of unique cutscene that lasts less time than it takes me to piss(Bioware went the "extra mile" and padded each ending with a few more minutes of copy/paste since theirs was even shorter) and then sit back and bask in the glorious rushed bullshit you were just handed because the developer ran out of time and/or money. The only reason Deus Ex gets away with this, and continues to get away with this, is because it was sadly the best we had at the time.

My point was merely that three different endings do not prevent a "sequel" being made. Deus Ex had three "canon" endings, all three were neutered and crammed into the sequel's "canon". They could do the same to Mass Effect. (Or maybe not, I'm speculating because I haven't played ME3)

 

[Maze1125]

Deus Ex and it's diverse three endings begat Invisible War. It can be done, doesn't mean it will be good. I always thought that they would make more games in the Mass Effect universe but not directly relating to the trilogy.

Wait, you're kidding, right? Mass Effect 3's endings follow the same formula as Deus Ex. Choose Control, Integrate, or Destroy(A, B, or C)

Yeah, except that ME3s choices are chosen by walking either left, right, or down the middle. While Deus Ex's choices are chosen by doing unique mission objectives spread over the entire final mission, with key characters reacting differently depending on which objective you seem to be attempting.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution's endings are akin to ME3's, but the original Deus Ex's endings are far superior, even though they still fail to incorporate your previous decisions through the game.

 

[Samantha Burt]

And for my own interest, can I ask you something: How does changing the ending, after the fact, resolve your contentions with the experience? Hasn't the damage been done? What do you gain?

You make some good points, and okay, it was probably the best analogy. You seem intelligent, so I hope we can agree to disagree?

To answer your question: I guess the fanbase, myself included, is just infatuated. As you said, we put a lot into the series and want to feel our time wasn't wasted. I guess that makes us try to look past flaws and hope that we can fix just some of those issues and make it go from good to great. I hope that clears it up a bit.

There's a lot of other stuff I'd like to explain here to, but I haven't slept in a fair bit, so I'm gonna just sign off and let this blow over until Tuesday. xD

 

[Manji187]

<-- Looks up. *frowns* Goes back to playing DS Chrono Trigger.

How about people close this chapter by playing their backlog of (probably) better games and expect stuff like BioShock Infinite, Diablo III etc.

Also, here's a thought: wash away the ME3 pain by playing The Witcher 2. Awesome main character? Check. Dialogue options? Check. Romance? Check.

 

[ralfy]

Oh, the tears. I love them so!

I'm so glad that Bioware basically told the "indoctrination ending" to kiss off, and all the pompous windbags who thought that by playing a franchise that they somehow knew it better then the creators to kiss off.

I hope this delicious kick in the teeth reminds all of you that you're fans of an interactive medium, not creators of it, and no matter how interactive the medium is, you're still just an end user.

I hope they go into great detail, fix all the plot holes, and then give you the same three choices you hated before, so that no matter how epic the ending, how epic the scope of the game, and how justified the ending you, that I can still listen to you guys whine and cry.

The problem isn't that gamers are "not creators" of the game or are just "end users" but that the game is broken. The belief that gamers can't complain because they aren't co-creators is pure nonsense.

The ending does not significantly follow C&Cs. Unfortunately, this type of problem can only be repaired through modification or substantial additions to the game, which means a DLC that's not free.

The company is probably less interested in listening to gamers "whine and cry" but is more concerned with what will happen if their customer base becomes angrier. That is probably why they decided to release a free DLC.

My guess is that they released this DLC because it was the only thing that they could make that could be offered for free (i.e., cut scenes), and if they tried to fix the problem, that would have led to a DLC that would require payment, something that will anger gamers even more.

It's also possible that they kept referring to "artistic integrity" because they didn't want to lower the morale of their employees, especially the game developers.

Given that, what is left is for gamers to realize that the company has only three choices, and all three might only make them angrier: do nothing, make a DLC that fixes the problems but charge for it, or make a DLC for free but that won't fix the problems. The last option might be the one that causes the least damage.

 

[ralfy]

Wait, you're kidding, right? Mass Effect 3's endings follow the same formula as Deus Ex. Choose Control, Integrate, or Destroy(A, B, or C), your previous choices don't matter for shit, enjoy a tiny chunk of unique cutscene that lasts less time than it takes me to piss(Bioware went the "extra mile" and padded each ending with a few more minutes of copy/paste since theirs was even shorter) and then sit back and bask in the glorious rushed bullshit you were just handed because the developer ran out of time and/or money. The only reason Deus Ex gets away with this, and continues to get away with this, is because it was sadly the best we had at the time.

It might be better to look at ME3 in light of 1 and 2 than of other games.

 

[BreakfastMan]

I would be surprised if this DLC does not do something like that, honestly. This is mostly the type of thing I am expecting from it. The FAQ certianly makes it sound like they are doing a DA style wrap-up, at least. :/

They have stated they are not adding any endings, nor changing any of them. The exact same stuff will happen, though with extra cutscenes for clarification, some dialogue if you picked destroy and lived with your LI and crew, and likely an epilogue sequence as they have stated they're not adding gameplay in, but are also not just doing cutscenes.
Kinda sad. It really would have been simple, and made a lot more people happy.

Nah, it is entirely possible they could do something like you suggested, give option refuse but end up having to choose one of the endings anyway, because otherwise the reapers would have won. Or something of the sort. They would not alter the endings themselves then. Honestly, the PR stuff for the EC is so vague, they could be cooking up a variety of things. I really hope more people would take a "wait and see" approach instead of condemning it outright. Bioware is trying people. :/

 

[Ihniwid]

And for my own interest, can I ask you something: How does changing the ending, after the fact, resolve your contentions with the experience? Hasn't the damage been done? What do you gain?

To answer your question: I guess the fanbase, myself included, is just infatuated. As you said, we put a lot into the series and want to feel our time wasn't wasted. I guess that makes us try to look past flaws and hope that we can fix just some of those issues and make it go from good to great. I hope that clears it up a bit.

Yeah that makes total sense. Thanks for the chat Samantha!

Also, here's a thought: wash away the ME3 pain by playing The Witcher 2. Awesome main character? Check. Dialogue options? Check. Romance? Check.

Badass badguy? Check. Crazy magical owls? Check. Naked lady neck tattoos? Check.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Posted this elsewhere, but it's still quite relevant:

Fans Upset Regardless: Not so much. Of course there will be a few upset that they didn't ride off into the sunset with their respective love interest, but the overwhelming majority of folks complaining are irate over the plot holes, total break from previously established lore, introduction of a major character (literally a deus ex machina in this case) in the last 10 minutes of a 100 hour trilogy, Bioware's complete disregard for its own promises, and etc. etc. etc. we've heard this all before.

Whipping out the "Oh, they'll never be satisfied!" argument is as trite as the complaining. The reasonable ones, read: most of them, aren't in it for kittens furiously mounting rainbows in pursuit of an orgasmic sunshine and cake ending.

The one, simple, wish is sense. We just want it to make fucking sense.

The guy filing an FTC complaint? Taking it way too far. Does he have a point, at least philosophically? It could be argued either way. Does it matter? Not really. Why? He (singular person) is...one person and not any more representative of the bulk of disenfranchised fans than, say, a baker who just happens to be a white supremacist is representative of all bakers.

It's still not a victory. To be perfectly honest, I would have forked over the five bucks necessary to rectify the problem via DLC, if only to effectively purge said problem from existence.

 

[Ihniwid]

The problem isn't that gamers are "not creators" of the game or are just "end users" but that the game is broken. The belief that gamers can't complain because they aren't co-creators is pure nonsense.

Your use of a "broken game" here is interesting. Because, it is true, a game can be broken. There can be debilitating bugs, crashes or significant framerate loss. But, how can a game be broken on a story level? You make a leap in your argument to simply prove that your dislike of the game ending is inherently a gameplay issue. From where I am standing, it is not a gameplay issue, it is a creative issue. A story issue.

 

[42]

Oh my god, no one ever is happy, they caved, they said they would give you something that would rectify the ending, and free multiplayer DLC, and you people are still not happy, and then you keep pointing out how EA is the worst corporation, IF it IS THE WORST, then why do you keep buying its products?

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Your use of a "broken game" here is interesting. Because, it is true, a game can be broken. There can be debilitating bugs, crashes or significant framerate loss. But, how can a game be broken on a story level? You make a leap in your argument to simply prove that your dislike of the game ending is inherently a gameplay issue. From where I am standing, it is not a gameplay issue, it is a creative issue. A story issue.

I'd prefer a glitch or bug in the game's core systems, as opposed to a collapse of the narrative in the final minutes.

To me, a story falling apart is just as "broken" as a piece of the game's underlying software malfunctioning. Both detract from the quality of the game and, since the story is part of the game (a big part of this one in particular), it stands to reason that faltering in that area could, rationally, be construed as a failure of the system itself.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[The Human Torch]

Oh look, more whining about Mass Effect 3's ending.
Can't you guys just get the fuck over it already? You didn't like the ending to a game, that's unfortunate. Now move on with your lives. If trying to get the ending of a game change seriously means that much to you. You need to get your priorities straight and ***** about something that matters.

Like bitching about people bitching about Mass Effect 3. If you don't like a thread/topic, stay the hell out of it and go donate money for some starving childeren.

 

[thememan]

Oh my god, no one ever is happy, they caved, they said they would give you something that would rectify the ending, and free multiplayer DLC, and you people are still not happy, and then you keep pointing out how EA is the worst corporation, IF it IS THE WORST, then why do you keep buying its products?

1. The DLC was pretty much planned from the start anyway. They have admitted as much, and that the content is effectively entirely a product they had every intention of releasing anyway. This is most certainly not them "caving".

2. The Free Multiplayer DLC is pretty much necessary at this point to even attempt at making it a long-term viable option. At this stage in the game, making people pay for something that has only marginal playability is a horrid option. Future multiplayer DLC, if there is any, will certainly be payed for. At this stage, it is so ridiculously limited that free is their only option.

 

[BreakfastMan]

The one, simple, wish is sense. We just want it to make fucking sense.

Except... Aren't they trying to fix that with this? Because it sure sounds like they are to me...

Also, you really don't speak for all the fans out there, sad to say. Just like that one guy who filed the FTC complaint does not. Many do want Bioware to go back and make a completely different ending.

 

[Aerosteam]

Meh, I don't see why anyone could complain about it being bad, since it's free after all. No doubt there's still going to be people demanding the 'ending they deserve', I tell them to deal with it.

 

[The Human Torch]

Oh look, more whining about Mass Effect 3's ending.
Can't you guys just get the fuck over it already? You didn't like the ending to a game, that's unfortunate. Now move on with your lives. If trying to get the ending of a game change seriously means that much to you. You need to get your priorities straight and ***** about something that matters.

Like bitching about people bitching about Mass Effect 3. If you don't like a thread/topic, stay the hell out of it and go donate money for some starving childeren.

Stating how pathetic the fans are about the ending isn't the same as nonstop bitching about how I didn't like the enidng of a game on a forum, and demanding DLC to fix that.

So you are calling me and thousands of others pathetic for wanting to have something changed? You are such a condescending prick. Do you also go and insult other people at rallies/protests? Even though the Mass Effect movement has a few unreasonable nutters (which movement doesn't), there are plenty of legitimate grievances and protesting is the best way to air those grievances.

Again, if you don't like these kind of things, go and play Mass Effect 3, enjoy it and leave the nay-saying to the nay-sayers.

 

[Avalanche91]

Well, completly changing the ending would have been a massive loss of face for EA/Bioware, and would basically be the same as admitting; "we had no idea wtf we were doing with the ending." If you're waiting on them admitting fault, then I hope you stocked up cause you're gonna be here for a while.

I'm carefully optimistic about it. A proper epilogue might at least be enough to wash away the bad taste of the ending. If we're super-special-extra lucky they might even fill up those damn plotholes.