Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

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Realitycrash

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Sandytimeman said:
Realitycrash said:
Sandytimeman said:
Realitycrash said:
Sandytimeman said:
Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.
Sorry, are you implying that Moviebob and Yahtzee are not gamers, and you are?
Because if so, I feel a full-blown facepalm coming.
I'm saying there is a difference between someone who plays games and watches movies for a living, than someone who works a standard 9-5 job and plays games for enjoyment and escapism. Yes.

In fact Movie bob has stated there is a difference in several of his articles about how he sees movies different from your average joe because he sees almost every movie that comes out and your regular person sees only one or two a month, at best.

Plus they are involved in the industry I feel they have a bit of stake in things to side mostly with the authors and not with the consumers. Thus the "its the consumers fault for caring about/ being angry about getting a shitty ending" that seems to be cropping up amongst all paid reviewers.

I'm pretty certain Moviebob plays plenty of games all the time, and he cares for them, and reads about them. Making him a "gamer". So, your point being?

I also find it down-right offensive that you would think they would side with the "industry" just because they have jobs for the Escapist. None of them have integrity, huh? Except both spend most of their time bashing either popular games or movies.
Heck, I think the claim that "consumers" have a say in how a written creations ending is supposed to be is fucking retarded, but I guess I have written an unpublished short-story, so I'm biased. Hurr-durr.
I'm not saying they are paid off, I'll say that right now. I just think from a professional point they tend to see things more from the creators prospective then from a fans.

btw Moviebob also has a gaming show over on screwattack so he also plays games for a living as well XD

Also I'm not saying the ending should be changed (if you had read the rest of my first post you quoted)

I'm saying we were lied to as consumers, the 17 plus endings and the ABC ending that wasnt going to happen in fact did happen. Don't buy bioware is all I'm trying to say because they don't have the ability to right a good narrative anymore.
I can agree that the ending was probably eh...Not what was expected. I can also say that yes, it is shit, and that something else was "promised", but such a promise is never binding within the videogame-industry, and you can't take it at facevalue (shit, I have so many "promises" from Blizzard to quote..).
If people want to stop buying their games, that's fine with me. I'm holding out for..Uh..Let's see, I didn't play Bioshock 2, and probably won't play Bioshock 3. I hated Dragon Age 2 and I won't buy Dragon Age 3 if it is even remotely similar. I also never liked Mass Effect in any form..
Okey, I actually probably won't buy Bioware-games either, until they come up with a new IP, but that's because their sequels have sucked, not due to some form of boycott.
 

MajoraPersona

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Well said.

Though some people are also apparently upset that they were promised a varied ending that reflected their choices. But the more I read about ME3, the more it seems like just that - a varied ending that reflects what the players have said and done throughout the game. And for a game-long ending to a series, it seems pretty fitting. As for the last 20-30 minutes of it: there aren't really a lot of options for dealing with mind-control robots from space that have already taken over half the galaxy.
 

gyroc1

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Great, I've been driven into seeing the spoilers. I never played any of the Mass Effect games though.

I hear that great tragedies bring viewer's hopes up, only for hope to be crushed in the most devastating way during the conclusion. But as a person looking into making games, this whole fiasco is going to make me rethink about giving a multi-game series a bad ending.
 

TheCaptain

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Spot1990 said:
At this stage I think Bioware would be better off setting up a nice sandwich shop somewhere. Haven't played ME3 yet but I'm sure I'll get around to it. Biwoare fans (or ex-fans I guess) seem to be the absolute whiniest children I've ever met. It's not that they don't like it, it's that it's objectively bad with no redeeming qualities and (somehow) every Bioware game made since ME1 is the last Bioware game anyone is going to buy ever.
While there are many people who one-sidedly complain in the foulest language possible (and those people are certainly the loudest), I think there's been a very reasonable and appropriate debate going on for some time now. One point that's been made repeatedly is that up until the final ten minutes the game was thoroughly enjoyable.
Whatever comes of this: Worst case scenario, I'm still disappointed about how they offed Mass Effect, but I'll still consider buying future Bioware titles. There still a great game developer, even with EA breathing down their collective necks.

OT: I'm a bit disappointed here - I didn't expect Yahtzee to line up behind the artistic intregrity argument so easily. Didn't he himself propose once that in video game development, the beginning and the end should be completed upfront since these are the most important parts?

There's one point I can get behind though: If the ending wouldn't have been presented in that utterly loveless way, I still wouldn't have liked it, but I wouldn't have gone so far as to demand an overhaul. If they had at least make an effort to show your choices mattered. Such as:

Personalizing the "life flashing before your eyes" scene by including different people depending on your actions, for example the squad member who was killed on Virmire or Shepards current love interest; if you saved the Geth, showing them helping to rebuild, if you saved the Quarian seeing them apply their liveship-setup to alliance carriers to avoid the Turians starving to death within a year, and if you have enough Crucible war assets having them start working on the first new mass relay. Just showing us that the fate of the galaxy could be different if we did really really well - or played a lot of multiplayer.

Also, I think he's still missing one other point. The fact that some overeager people set the fanbase up for disappointment with promises they couldn't live up to. Didn't think that was ok in Yahtzee's book, especially the three-buttons-three-endings-machine he didn't like so much in Deus Ex. But then again, I haven't heard of a critic who addressed that point before.
 

Gigatoast

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DrVornoff said:
General theme of this thread: Nobody understands me!!

It's kind of sad how anyone who has an opinion on the ME3 ending that isn't, "Fuck Bioware!" is accused of "not getting it." Though when it comes to explaining what exactly "it" is, none of the whiners have come up with a single lucid point that would refute any of the opinions they so staunchly object to, if they even try at all.
Well you certainly haven't been looking very hard for explainations, there's one at the top of this page and probably about a hundred others on this site alone.

Also, the majority of the "retake" crowd don't hate Bioware or even the game itself, just the ending. So yes, I'm pretty confidant this can be considered you "not getting it".
 

Ticonderoga117

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DrVornoff said:
General theme of this thread: Nobody understands me!!

It's kind of sad how anyone who has an opinion on the ME3 ending that isn't, "Fuck Bioware!" is accused of "not getting it." Though when it comes to explaining what exactly "it" is, none of the whiners have come up with a single lucid point that would refute any of the opinions they so staunchly object to, if they even try at all.
I disagree on your idea that there is no explanation of what "it" is.
"It" is: Bad writing, bad execution, inconsistency with the rest of the series, and the guys in charge (Casey Hudson and that lead writer guy whose name I currently forget) expressly stated that what we got was what we weren't supposed to get. The quotes have been thrown around here before so I'm not adding them here again.

Also, many of the arguments about this subject usually have explanations as to why.
 

Spygon

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People you do realise why there isnt any "closure" in mass effect 3s ending.Because its isnt the end of mass effect bioware have left them a story to be told.So they will add to the story in mass effect 4 they even said it before the game came out that this isnt the end of mass effects story only shepards.Even so that might not be true now but i guess some people only want to listen to certain things that devs say.
 

Asita

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Yeah...suffice to say I don't think the 'artistic vision' argument truly applies here. When the devs repeatedly say throughout the development cycle (even during the final stages of development) that there will be many "wildly different" endings, I think it's fairly safe to say that the "1 ending, now in 3 fun new colors!" doesn't match the vision they had for the finale - especially when they note that they had to drop a good portion of it in the eleventh hour due to gameplay issues with it - and that the presented ending itself violates their artistic vision.

As presented, the ending seems rushed and inconsistent, as if they literally ran out of time to make it. If their vision had truly planned to give the same bleak outcome regardless, then the very act of differentiating the endings (despite their overwhelming similarity) becomes counterintuitive. Ironically, I think that if they had just presented one outcome (no final choice involved) the reaction probably wouldn't have gotten as much steam as it has, as it would be very clear that what we were given was intended. However, they gave three options, which quickly became a slap in the face when their near identical nature and aftermath became apparent, and that itself points to hasty design choice: filling three possibilities with the same cinematic, which they then gave slight alterations to so as to justify the existence of the three different paths.

Were I to make an educated guess on the subject, I'd say that what we were given was originally intended to be the ending for the "Destroy" options (hence why we see more variants for that choice than any other), which were then hastily edited to make the other possibilities work when they realized they'd run out of time (the general conclusion, at least, seems to be supported by the behind the scenes commentary that has since been released) So yeah, all things considered, I don't really feel it's out of line to call them out for not holding to their own vision as it was presented to the audience.


Oh, and as to the Krogans and the Genophage: No. That was not presented as an inevitable outcome. It was feared that history would repeat itself, though much with the Rachni, the initial decision (genophage and extinction, respectively) was consistently treated as a tragic decision which many objected to (Heck, the lore itself states that the Salarians only ever intended to use the genophage as a threat and didn't expect the Turians to actually use it), and indeed one of the most significant themes underlying their respective missions was the fact that they deserved a second chance in some capacity. Despite the council berating you if you saved the Rachni in ME1 (though then again, they're angry either way), the decision proves justified in ME2, when news reports and an Asari on Ilium both make it overwhelmingly opinion that the Rachni have little interest in the hostilities the council was afraid of, and were actually quite willing to be allies.

With regards genophage, dialogue with Mordin points out that one of the main problems with the Krogan in the first place was the fact that they were introduced to the galactic community before they were ready to be a part of it, and indeed an important part of Mordin's character arc is his doubts about the genophage's ethicality and its effect in practice[footnote]While the genophage itself was designed to drop krogan population growth to pre-industrial levels, the sociological impact led the krogan to become fatalistic and self-destructive and thereby was leading them down a slow path to extinction[/footnote]. In fact, if Wrex survives Virmire, you see by Mass Effect 2 that he's actually taking steps that would ultimately lead to the Krogan becoming a viable and valuable part of galactic civilization. Could it go sour? Sure, but all the same, the series does not imply the inevitability Croshaw attributes to it.


Oh and on a final note: "Audience: Fill In Your Preferred Ending Here"? Quippy strawman, but a strawman nonetheless. That would only really hold up if the upset fans were submitting preferred endings rather than the generally expressed sentiment of "Bioware, take a mulligan on that ending"

Edit: Broke up the paragraphs a bit so it's less 'wall of text'-y.
 
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tautologico said:
I don't think any of these people writing about the controversy is saying you don't have a right to not like the ending, to complain about it, to never buy Bioware games again, etc. No one is telling you what to think about the game or the ending.

The problem is that some fans feel that Bioware "owes" them a better ending or some such, and try to demand a new ending from them. This is what most journalists are talking against, not the fact of not liking the ending.
I'm going to interject with a different perspective which has been constantly getting on my nerves since those final 10 minutes.

I know Bioware doesn't owe anything to it's gamers and it's ultimately their choice and right if they want to change the ending or not, just like it's our choice and right to point out every damn thing they did wrong.

Honestly it does seem like changing the ending is a bit pointless now it's out there, sure it'd make people happier, I know I'd be happier, but the lingering disappointment is still there, I honestly think Bioware owed it to themselves to create a better ending.

How long has Mass Effect been help up as a series that shows amazing story, difficult choices and actual repercussions for those choices?

Then they piss it all away in the last 10 minutes, I think I'm just as annoyed that they did this to the franchise as I am that they did it to the fans.

Mass Effect could've been something really special, but now at it's best, it's a great series will a pretty disappointing ending, at it's worst it's a series killer.

But maybe I'm rambling...
 

Rangerboy87

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Oh thank God, someone finally mentioned it.

I though I was the only person who saw the ending and thought (besides What?): "Wait, if the relays are destroyed, aren't all the species trapped in Earth's solar system? That's kind of a glaring plot hole"

I am so happy someone else noticed that.
 

Mausenheimmer

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JDLY said:
Mausenheimmer said:
"Curing the Krogan Genophage implies that the Krogan Rebellions would start again"

No, they wouldn't because Wrex and Eve survived on my playthrough and they were determined to guide the krogan along a different path. Similarly, the geth and quarians started to get along and help each other, undermining the point that synthetics will inevitably fight organics.

But I guess paying attention to differences between playthroughs would require you to spend more than half a week thinking about it. And that requires way more effort than I've come to expect from you.
Perhaps in his playthrough Wrex, or Eve, or both of them had died, so the Rebellions would start again. And perhaps he didn't manage to get peace between the Quarians and Geth.

Just a thought.
So that excuses him to be ignorant of their existence?

He probably didn't because he admitted he pretty much sped through the game. I know apathy is kind of his schtick, but his ignorance combined with his apathy makes him in no way qualified to discuss this topic.
 

JediMB

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Mcoffey said:
Oooh, where'd you hear that? Not calling you out, it just sounds fascinating. I was wondering what happened to all that Dark Energy stuff they kept mentioning in Mass Effect 2.
There was a script leak at some point. I'm not entirely sure when, but the script and information from it has been floating around for quite a while.

It's still not certain if the ending was changed due to the leak, or simply because someone didn't think the majority of the gamers would be smart enough to understand all the dark energy stuff.

Mcoffey said:
As for the topic at hand, it doesn't matter how shitty the ending is, or how many times Bioware lied to you. Nothing they did warrant's the stupidity of all this "Change the ending" nonsense. You're (presumably) adults. Stop acting like whiney children and get the fuck over it.
It's false advertising. People are, generally, exercising their rights as consumers.

The complaints, in great part delivered through constructive criticism, are a testament to how dearly BioWare's fanbase holds the Mass Effect franchise and its characters. ME3 ending on such a terrible note can be compared to a bad breakup, and it will take time for people to get over it and move on.

Personally, I still want BioWare to change the ending into something that makes more sense. Something without a last minute Deus Ex Machina that seems to exist for the sole purpose of making the ending bad. But I'm a realist, and know enough about how the industry, EA and Mass Effect development work to have given up hope on that by now.

Once BioWare rolls out the "update" to Mass Effect 3's ending, we'll probably have some extra dialogue between Shepard and Anderson, and Shepard and the Catalyst, but the ending still won't make any sense, and it will still be bad. That's just the reality of the situation.

Mcoffey said:
I hope we can put this behind us and remember that no matter how bad the ending was, Dragon Age 2 was still shittier.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. While Dragon Age II's final act was definitely shoddy and inconsistent with the rest of the game, the plot still made sense and the game had a proper climax.

When I finished Dragon Age II I thought "I'd like to play this game again, but I'll save it for later so that I won't get burnt out on it."

When I finished Mass Effect 3, after a short period of nihilism, I thought "I can never play through a Mass Effect game again."

(And, in contrast to both of them, finishing Mass Effect 2 lead to me immediately starting up a second playthrough. Same with Dragon Age: Origins, although I never finished the second playthrough there...)
 

lacktheknack

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Not gonna lie, guys, saying "Blah, you don't understand" and then ending your comment isn't making me think that they didn't just put a Geneforge ending in their Lord of the Rings (which I would see as a ballsy and admirable move, but misguided).
 

Mister Linton

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"Waaah! None of my choices mattered!" - Mass Effect 4
"Waaah! I don't know teh clooosure!" - Mass Effect 4
"Waaah! What happened to those guys?" - Mass Effect 4
"Waaah! I don't like 3 choices!" - You mean, like the 3 choices you made repeatedly over the course of three 30 hour games?
 

lacktheknack

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Rangerboy87 said:
Oh thank God, someone finally mentioned it.

I though I was the only person who saw the ending and thought (besides What?): "Wait, if the relays are destroyed, aren't all the species trapped in Earth's solar system? That's kind of a glaring plot hole"

I am so happy someone else noticed that.
That's not a plot hole, that's just plain old unfortunate.