Mass effect dev: "Stop thinking you're the producer."

[Kahunaburger]

"BUT THEY COULD HAVE RELEASED IT FOR FREE!"

Not if it wasn't part of the project's structured budget. Any additional work has to be compensated for. The reason the DLC costs money was simply a business decision, but not one made to simply grab for more money. The way the financing for production worked out probably required it be considered a seperate project by EA.

That sounds like it was a bad business decision on EA's part to allocate budget to paid day 1 DLC, instead of free day 1 DLC. Do you think CDPR releases free DLC out of the goodness of their hearts?

 

[Vibhor]

And false again!

We live in an age where consumer gets called entitled for wanting extra WITHOUT having to pay for it.

Then when denied goes on the internet and throws a hissy fit that material they didn't pay for to a product they didn't buy is being sold a way they dont like.

Yeah I think entitled is a pretty soft definition there...
Spoiled Brats are more like it.

Yeah, go ahead continue your crusade against those bad boys. Show them what they really deserve.
Go ahead and march with your beacon of enlightenment and knowledge. Show them they are wrong and you are right.

 

[Vibhor]

You already proved you had no counter argument and that you were trying to do special pleading.

You should take what is left of your shallow position and leave. Right now it feels like am killing a wounded animal.

OH SNAP!
Its like I am being burned by the sun right now.
Seriously, grow up and open your eyes. Its not I do not have a counter argument its just that no matter what I put up you will dismiss it and fail to grasp the point while continuing to prove that you are superior. Now I have fully realized that arguments on the internet are very pointless.

 

[Thatrocketeer]

-snip-

Proof's better explained in the description. The fact that you can take a few lines off the code and then be able to play as the character from the DLC means that it's already in the disc to begin with.

Now I don't like calling people Biodrones unless necessary, but you're really making it hard for me not to call you one. Taking the scripts of the producers on an interview over someone who actually checked the game files in the disc, is facepalm inducing to say the least. Of course they're not going to admit the DLC is in the disc, that would be extremely stupid, plus it's going to make them look worse to the community that already hates them.

OT: I had one extremely huge problem with her statement. Particularly this line.

Players rant?they know nothing about this DLC that's coming out except its name.

Yeah, players usually don't have any idea about the DLC, except when, you know, Bioware/EA was actually dumb enough to leak the frickin' DLC. I think she never got the news about that one.

Yeah then strawman it. "You are biodrone"
It wasn't on the disk. There is a char placeholder. There is no mission, there is no dialog. He has no voiceover. All there is a model. A place holder. How can you honestly say with a strait face "the content is on the disk!" when it clearly isn't finished. You have the balls to call me a Biodrone?

It shows how little of an argument you have. Dont even try to pretend it isn't the case. You dont even try to deny that the developers never fucking said the content wasn't finished when the game went gold. You just ignore it. And you try to argue that a Placeholder = finished contend? Get out and dont come back.

There is leftovers of a full lvl that was never finished on the original God of War?
Does that mean you got cut content?
No it means that there was the potential for finishing the lvl, but the developer didn't have time or money to finish it. Look it up. Learn a little. Then please excuse yourself and apoligize for doing a pointless attack on my person with so little back up.

Except I never really called you one did I? I said you were making it really hard, there's a difference in difficulty in calling someone and directly addressing them as such.

I said content was on the disk, you even quoted me. But where oh where my friend did I ever say that the content is finished? I argued that there is content, and you agreed with me.

DLC literally means Downloadable Content, the models that are supposed to be DOWNLOADED, meaning separated from the disc, are still in the disc, hell, it was even labeled for the DOWNLOADED character. Placeholder or not, the thing is, if you can actually put that character in your party in the game without downloading it as was demonstrated by the video, then that is still content from something that was supposed to be downloaded separately, meaning not on the disc. Technically, that means that there are DLC in the game disc. Bioware argued that there was no such thing in the game disc, that they were made SEPARATELY, by a separate team, and yet, you just conceded that there is in fact content from the DLC in the game disc.

Finally, offending someone in the internet is very amusing. You look like a butthurt fanboy from your post. I'm not taking it back, hell I'm going to state it directly now since its actually pretty obvious. YOU ARE A BIODRONE. Now, please don't let this paragraph ruin your stance, I like to see how far fanboys go in defending their beloved developer.

 

[Lilani]

My whole problem with this scenario is that "potential customers" (not actual customers), has been acting like spoiled children.

And no I dont not believe the best way to solve that is indulging them.

It turns out explaining the situation made no difference as well because people made the opinion BEFORE they had any good information and then went looking for data that supported it. Intellectually dishonest to say the least.

But I dont want to talk about what makes good/bad PR.
I want to talk about what you think.
Now that you have the full info of how games are made and how the extra content got into production.

It all boils down to the question: Do you think you have the right to get what the producers decided to sell as an extra?

I think the producers have a right to make money, as they well should if they want to stay afloat, and if they need to charge extra for DLC to do that then they should do it. However, they should present and sell this extra content in a way that doesn't confuse the customer and make them feel like they are paying again for something they already bought.

EA is getting with a lot of the fallout and mistrust from other situations in the past where the DLC actually WAS cut content that was simply repackaged and sold to gamers for extra. But again, how this mistrust came about and whether or not it's fair to them isn't the issue. The issue is people don't trust them, and it is up to them to make amends. EA isn't just in the business of games anymore, they are in the business of people. A huge part of dealing with people is apologizing for things that aren't your fault. So if they want those people to be happy, they're going to have to do a bit of bowing and scraping and trickery in order to make them feel like they're getting a good deal.

It isn't about what's right or wrong, it's about results. EA has a huge PR problem right now, and quite a bit of it is very much their fault. Yes people have been petulant, but EA hasn't exactly been too kind to them as of late either, and they haven't done much to address those blunders. But the way I see it, it's up for EA to make the first move to repair this rift between them and gamers. They know exactly the kind of people they're dealing with, and honestly they aren't too different from the general public as a whole. The only difference is we are much better networked than most of the general public. So if they're expecting forgiveness without first making a step to apologize themselves, they are simply SOL.

 

[Something Amyss]

That's a little different, because a lot of times (at least in the past) the theatrical edition is what made the MPAA's R or PG-13 rating, and the Director's Cut gets to be "unrated." Video games can't do that for consoles, and likely Steam as well.

And a lot of time, the director's cut is just additional content that was already shot and nto put into the movie. So it's not so different at all.

Feel like, I said.

And if you feel like you can do it, you totally should try. Come on, I'm being supportive here and you're making excuses. Do it!

In short, this isn't about people wanting to become game producers. This is about people wanting those producers to do what we ask rather than trying to screw us at every turn and then act like they're the victim in all of it.

So you want all the benefits of being the publisher and dictating content without any of the work. Aha. Got it now.

 

[Something Amyss]

Still doesn't change the fact feelings doesn't relay what is actually happening.

As already pointed out, feelings are very important in selling a product to the masses. It may not relay the truth, but sometimes things are more important than the truth. Of course, saving face is probably unimportant to Bioware, because their fanbase will be back next time, just like they were back this time.

We live in an age where consumer gets called entitled for wanting extra WITHOUT having to pay for it.

Yeah, what used to be considered "consumerism." Damn those stupid bastards for thinking about consumer issues like consumers!

 

[LittleBlondeGoth]

Sniiiiiip

That has to be one of the most eloquent posts I've ever read, bravo sir. Also, I agree.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Hahahaha Bioware is so bad at PR.

Except they aren't employed by Bioware and work at a completely different company. It even says "former Mass Effect developer" in the title and goes on to explain how she exited the company after Mass Effect 1--in 2007--in the next paragraph.

 

[Vibhor]

"you just cant see it" isn't and argument. its a defeat. You have nothing. You set a premise. I follow though and you then change the premise. Then I follow through and you change the premise to logically flawed premise and I point it out.

And then you end it with "you just dont see it"

You have nothing but your own demand for content that isn't being offered to you for free.

Yep, I am completely defeated by your superior logic.
I was a fool to think I could beat you in a mind game. Please have mercy on my soul.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

You have no reasonable idea of what it takes to release a video game..

But I'm sure you do...

When they send data to be certified (which they did in this case) they can only certify content on the disc, meaning only finished content is certified. They claimed that they made this DLC when that was hapenning. Finding out the files were on the disc prove that this is an outright lie and that it was finished during the production of the rest of the game.

Aaactualy, only character assets were on the disc and only character assets. The deadline for certification comes up, extra shit they were working on isn't finished, so they send off what is done and keep working to finish the story and the rest of the needed content for the DLC to function. Which is exactly what they told us.

Anyone who is mad about this doesn't understand how entertainment production works. I agree with Jeff Gerstmen.

 

[Thatrocketeer]

-snip-

Proof's better explained in the description. The fact that you can take a few lines off the code and then be able to play as the character from the DLC means that it's already in the disc to begin with.

Now I don't like calling people Biodrones unless necessary, but you're really making it hard for me not to call you one. Taking the scripts of the producers on an interview over someone who actually checked the game files in the disc, is facepalm inducing to say the least. Of course they're not going to admit the DLC is in the disc, that would be extremely stupid, plus it's going to make them look worse to the community that already hates them.

OT: I had one extremely huge problem with her statement. Particularly this line.

Players rant?they know nothing about this DLC that's coming out except its name.

Yeah, players usually don't have any idea about the DLC, except when, you know, Bioware/EA was actually dumb enough to leak the frickin' DLC. I think she never got the news about that one.

Yeah then strawman it. "You are biodrone"
It wasn't on the disk. There is a char placeholder. There is no mission, there is no dialog. He has no voiceover. All there is a model. A place holder. How can you honestly say with a strait face "the content is on the disk!" when it clearly isn't finished. You have the balls to call me a Biodrone?

It shows how little of an argument you have. Dont even try to pretend it isn't the case. You dont even try to deny that the developers never fucking said the content wasn't finished when the game went gold. You just ignore it. And you try to argue that a Placeholder = finished contend? Get out and dont come back.

There is leftovers of a full lvl that was never finished on the original God of War?
Does that mean you got cut content?
No it means that there was the potential for finishing the lvl, but the developer didn't have time or money to finish it. Look it up. Learn a little. Then please excuse yourself and apoligize for doing a pointless attack on my person with so little back up.

Except I never really called you one did I? I said you were making it really hard, there's a difference in difficulty in calling someone and directly addressing them as such.

I said content was on the disk, you even quoted me. But where oh where my friend did I ever say that the content is finished? I argued that there is content, and you agreed with me.

DLC literally means Downloadable Content, the models that are supposed to be DOWNLOADED, meaning separated from the disc, are still in the disc, hell, it was even labeled for the DOWNLOADED character. Placeholder or not, the thing is, if you can actually put that character in your party in the game without downloading it as was demonstrated by the video, then that is still content from something that was supposed to be downloaded separately, meaning not on the disc. Technically, that means that there are DLC in the game disc. Bioware argued that there was no such thing in the game disc, that they were made SEPARATELY, by a separate team, and yet, you just conceded that there is in fact content from the DLC in the game disc.

Finally, offending someone in the internet is very amusing. You look like a butthurt fanboy from your post. I'm not taking it back, hell I'm going to state it directly now since its actually pretty obvious. YOU ARE A BIODRONE. Now, please don't let this paragraph ruin your stance, I like to see how far fanboys go in defending their beloved developer.

So your whole point is....

Because there is unfinished content on the disk it should be available?

That is pathetic.

Deal with the facts

"the content in "From Ashes" was developed by a seperate team (after the core game was finished)
And not the main game vent into certification"

Is the quote. please tell me how that goes against anything you discovered on the disk?

Deal with the fact that you only found a place holder. That is what it is. Unfinished content left in. You can find it in every game from Pokemon to God of War. Are you going to call me a Nintendrone as well for defending this practise?

No I think the only one with a zealous attitude appears to be you.

Is it just me, or did you just ignore my argument, the whole DLC definition thing that I posted and then just insisted that I was talking about unfinished content? Again, I'll repeat it, my argument is that Bioware was lying when they said that the DLC was an actual separate thing.

For the sake of my argument, since I'm guessing you ignored it, I'll repeat it for you. Bioware stated that they created DLC AFTER the main product, and then revised to after certification, they even said they had different teams for that. The fact that the DLC was NOT separate, that includes MODELS, TEXTURES, and you can even PUT THE FRICKIN PROTHEAN IN YOUR PARTY and everything else means that they did NOT develop DLC SEPARATELY from the main product.

"the content in "From Ashes" was developed by a seperate team (after the core game was finished)
And not the main game vent into certification"

Thing is, you wouldn't need placeholders if your proposed DLC are actually separated and created after the main product. If they stated that it was just unfinished/cut content, then that's fine as far as I'm concerned. But they stated that they created it separately from the main product, which is a lie, as was my argument.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Hahahaha Bioware is so bad at PR.

Except they aren't employed by Bioware and work at a completely different company. It even says "former Mass Effect developer" in the title and goes on to explain how she exited the company after Mass Effect 1--in 2007--in the next paragraph.

Christina Norman worked on ME2 as well, actually. I was referring more to the fact that both current and former Bio employees don't seem to have a clear idea of what sort of comments are and aren't helpful. See also: unprofessional conduct on the forums, twitter, and metacritic.

 

[LittleBlondeGoth]

Well it was given for free to collectors edition folks. Why should disc holders not be privy to the many minutes of dialogue he has? It is very significant, especially on the Asari planet. If Zaeed was free why should this guy who cost us 10 dollars?

I would disagree on that score, it wasn't free to the Collector's Edition. If you bought the CE, then you paid more in the first place. If memory serves, you could pick up the standard edition for £40, and the CE for £60 or so. For that extra 20 quid, you got the DLC, the artbook etc etc. This is not "free".