Mass effect gets hi-res tex- wait...zomg Tali's face!
- Thread starter Zoop
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I think the argument is that they already had naturally weak immune systems compared to pretty much every other species in the galaxy because pathogens were rare on their homeworld. Living in the sterile environment of the fleet apparently made the problem worse, but even if they hadn't lived on ships for centuries they'd probably still be getting sick all the time around other species or on new planets.
/nerdmoment
EDIT: on the eating question, I think I remember reading somewhere (maybe one of the novels) that outside the fleet they only really eat some kind of nutrient paste through a tube.
/nerdmoment
EDIT: on the eating question, I think I remember reading somewhere (maybe one of the novels) that outside the fleet they only really eat some kind of nutrient paste through a tube.
For me at least, the reason I like Tali so much is like Waffle Man said: she's easy to relate to. She's the one who I understand most, especially with her fascination for technology. To me at least, she's the definition of nerd power: smart when it comes to machines and can back it up on the battlefield. It's the same but to a lesser extent with Liara as well. Plus Tali for some reason would always do better in combat than pretty much any other character I would have in my squad, with the only character coming close being Legion. When an engineer is killing more enemies and surviving combat longer than a Justicar, some soldiers, a psychotic biotic, and the goddamn Turian Batman, either she kicks some serious ass or everyone else went to school to learn about flower arrangement instead of enlisting in the military.
Also I'd hit Miranda...in the face...with a large spiked bat...
Only character that I like less is Ashley.
Also I'd hit Miranda...in the face...with a large spiked bat...
Only character that I like less is Ashley.
Out of curiosity I watched some of the romance conversation videos for ME2 when I couldn't be asked to play the game over and over to find out for myself, and I have to say I like Tali the most out of the characters. Sure, Miranda's the hottest, but Tali has an honesty about her character that I find rather appealing. Miranda has frustration bordering on anger in regards to her feelings for Shepherd, whereas Tali's nervousness and stammering makes her endearing, and it's clear from the moment she's on the ship that she's attracted to Shepherd.
Miranda has that cliche oversexualized unattainability and ice-queen quality that makes some people drool; but at no point in the game, even when she opens up to Shepherd, does it ever establish a personality/character for her other than confidence and a dark past.
Tali, on the other hand, actually seems like someone you could talk to with opinions, hopes, desires and fears other than failing your mission. She's a bit of a geek, and yes she might seem fragile, but she overcomes that liability at every point in which it's needed and rises to the challenges presented of her (provided you did her loyalty mission and weren't stupid in the final act).
Miranda has that cliche oversexualized unattainability and ice-queen quality that makes some people drool; but at no point in the game, even when she opens up to Shepherd, does it ever establish a personality/character for her other than confidence and a dark past.
Tali, on the other hand, actually seems like someone you could talk to with opinions, hopes, desires and fears other than failing your mission. She's a bit of a geek, and yes she might seem fragile, but she overcomes that liability at every point in which it's needed and rises to the challenges presented of her (provided you did her loyalty mission and weren't stupid in the final act).
The whole immune-compromised Quarians is based on hard science, there's no fiction about it. The immune system atrophies if it's not used, and generations of living in a perfectly sterile environment has left them without immune systems. Hell, astronauts who spend mere months in space come back with greatly weakened immune systems.Rednog said:
Err not entirely true, your immune system doesn't atrophy. Whether or not you're exposed to foreign antigens your immune system is still playing clean up in the body for various things that go rogue, such as cancer cells and whatnot.VladG said:
The reason why someone can get really sick and or die from going from an overly sterile environment to never experienced pathogens is because the immune system would be overwhelmed with the sheer amount of pathogens that it does not recognize.
The same would occur theoretically if say we were transported in time to say 200 years ago, our immune systems would fine and dandy and constantly in use in our time, but because the pathogens 200 years ago differ so much chances are that our immune system wouldn't recognize them and you'd be quickly overrun and screwed over.
To me, the original is better. It gives the feel that the armor Tali was wearing was used. Years old. The upgraded textures to me make it look like she just bought the suit.
Upgraded is not always better.
Upgraded is not always better.
The immune system is very specialized. You don't get the same antibodies for colds as you do for, dunno, some bacterial thing. So whatever protects you from cancer has nothing to do with external bacteria. Also living in a perfectly sterile environment means that your immune system will recognize no pathogens whatsoever and, indeed, be overwhelmed by anything. It's not even about numbers, a single pathogen could kill you. Technically a single generation born in a perfectly sterile environment would have next to no immune system after their first year (since maternal antibodies only work for about 6 months, after that you need your own). In the case of the game we're talking about multiple generations. Also I think they had very weak immune systems in the first place due to the technologically advanced state of their homeworld.Rednog said:
Also going back in time wouldn't be much of a problem since what we're immune to now would have evolved from what was available then. You'd still have pretty good defenses. Going forward in time might be more problematic.
They wear the suits all the time? Now that raises some interesting logistics questions. As for the food... tubes? Hell, I don't think we're far off from feed tubes ourselvesDaystar Clarion said:
As for the OP... I don't think the guy who did the textures added anything to Tali's face. I think he just boosted the contrast and light levels and made what was already there more visible. You can always see hints of her face structure and silhouette in the original game.
The crappy over-blown look kinda adds more weight to that, though it's hard to tell if that's actually the texture, or just the screenshot's JPEG compression, or something else.
Tali was one of my most valued party members in Mass Effect. And she isn't at all delicate on the battlefield, despite the whole can't live without her suit thing. Gameplay And Story Segregation at work there. Were it not for that I'd agree, she would be absolutely useless and may as well not even be available for missions.xvbones said:
Homosexuality in games is clearly fine with BioWare, but not fine if it disrupts continuity. Why would Garrus suddenly be interested in men? He's already been shown to be straight in ME2 with FemShep and shows no interest in Male Shepard, so having him suddenly be bisexual or gay would be incredibly contrived. If they're gonna have homosexual interspecies relations, it's gotta be with a new character.Zoop said:
Actually, Tali ret-cons it in ME2 (in the romance dialogue) to explain that they actually are all Allergic to everything.Jadak said:
And, since (in real life, on earth) keeping someone in a sterile bubble WILL actually make them allergic to everything... yeah, that actually does make sense. Sort of.
Basically Quarians had bad immune systems, so they wore suits, which was a huge over-reaction since most non-Turian bacteria/viruses can't affect them at all, which gave them allergies to everything in the universe other than their suits.
Of course, none of the rest of the dialogue in the game reflects this ret-con. So either Tali is making shit up, or the Tali dialogue writers didn't actually tell guys who wrote the rest of the game what they were doing. The lead writer tried (and failed) to make it make sense in the novels.
Basically... that whole medical issue is a cluster-fuck of writer fuck-ups. You know what the real reason is? They didn't want to model out-of-suit Quarians, so BSed a reason why they didn't have to. It's the same reason why there are no female Turians on screen, ever.
Also, while I'm ranting about this, that whole "Turian food will kill humans" thing? Total BS. That whole reversed chemical structure thing? We have that. It's used in artificial sweeteners. That's why they're 0 Cal - because we can't digest them.
That said, Tali is my favorite romance option. Not because she's awkward - because she's living the saddest, most pathetic life ANYONE could possibly lead, and she's trying so hard to be happy about it. I just want to hug her and squeeze her and make it okay. I want to be the one thing in her pathetic life that doesn't totally suck.
Too bad I play FemShep. Maybe ME3 will finally let me show Tali the love her father never did.
tl;dr: I love Mass Effect, but ANYTHING medical they say is probably total bullshit. Just smile, nod, and enjoy the awesome game.
Also - Tali = sad. Me want to make Tali happy. Hence romance.
Actually, considering what Turian females look like, I think Male Shep is probably pretty close to what a female Turian physiology. The problem in ME2 is that Male Shep never actually hits on Garrus. When FemShep hits on Garrus, Garrus is like "Wait, what? Um, okay." They make it pretty clear that Garrus is attracted to FemShep for her personality, not her body. The same would apply to Male Shep.ilovemyLunchbox said:
Or, to put it another way, if a Dolphin hits on you, it's weird. Does it really matter if the Dolphin is male or female?
Edit: and while I'm at it.
The same goes for Tali. In ME2, Tali flirts with both Male and Female Shep. Male Shep gets it and calls her on it, starting the romance. Female Shep misses it and says "You're a good friend, Tali" or something like that, and Tali moves the conversation awkwardly onward.
Thus, in a way, ME2 provides perfect justification for Garrus and Tali to be gay options in ME3.
... Ashley, however... I have no clue how they're pulling that one off.
Odgical said:
What, no love for Jack?xvbones said:
Is it that she uses a shotgun rather than an assault rifle? I bet that's the problem here.
There is a huge difference here.TopazFusion said:
See, my little sister is sweet and kind and beautiful.
SOPA's little sister was PIPA, who was ugly.
Very, very ugly.
Let that be a lesson to you, boys and girls.
If you want to be protected, you cannot be ugly.
I never strayed from Garrus, Wrex and Liandra.evilneko said:
And yes, of course, obviously Gameplay/Story Segregation is in full steam here, seeing as how the absolute last thing you want to do if the whole universe is lethal to you is get into a fucking gunfight.
Jack is too much of a wounded bird. You see all those tattoos all over her body? They actually read Extremely High Maintenance in six different languages.Geo Da Sponge said:
And also I do not trust Jack, she is clearly holding out on us.
First time you actually see her, the very first thing she does is obliterate an entire room full of heavy assault mechs and then that never happens, ever again.
I mean. I mean come on. Come on. How fucking long is the cooldown on her "Rape A Room Full Of Heavy Assault Mechs" skill? Because we have been spending months[ flying around the fucking galaxy here, that shit has got to be back up.
(also fuck shotguns.)
(also no baldies ell oh ell)
Interestingly, she swears her service to you in ME2, so that she never has to choose between your commands and her code...TD_Knight said:
So soft mushy beans actually.
Err I think there might be some skipped steps in the understanding of how immunity works.VladG said:
From birth you produce B cells and T cells, that's what we are genetically set up to do, it isn't just a case of the outside world stimulating us to create these cells.
If a generation is suddenly born into an environment that is completely sterile doesn't mean that their body suddenly goes oh nothing is around, time to turn off all these systems, the babies are going to produce them regardless. The whole maternal antibodies exist because the baby's immune system hasn't kicked into overdrive yet, thus it provides a buffer for the child so that their immune system can fully mature and be ready to make its own stuff, but this isn't derived from an external signal it is just the system requiring time to mature.
People becoming immune compromised occurs from various illnesses or processes in the bodies that go wrong, not because there is a lack of use. For the immune system to naturally become turned off in a species you would have to have some kind of mutation to kill off the systems that make the various components of the immune system.
And while yes we have very specific parts of our immune system that recognize one and only one pathogen, that happens to be a very special function of our immune system, memory and antibodies. However to get to that specificity we have general parts of our immune system that react to a variety of pathogens, and even those just don't sit around all day waiting for foreign elements, they have dual roles in the body. A decent example is white blood cells, while they have a role in engulfing bacteria they also engulf other elements like damaged red blood cells.
Also just because the pathogens around now evolved from previous pathogens doesn't mean we will be immune to it. The way the "arms race" works with pathogens is that they keep finding unique ways to avoid our ability to detect and recognize them. So in the past humans recognized X pathogen because of say antigen Y on its surface, over time evolution occurs and pathogen X has a new antigen Z on its surface and thus the immune system no longer recognizes the pathogen and the pathogen goes on its merry way.
Now the immune system adapts and goes through various combination to recognize antigen Z, but by now antigen Y isn't around anymore because Z was favored. Thus the next generation who had never been exposed to antigen Y would still becomes sick if exposed to Y.
It is the same idea as why we still get the common flu every year, pathogens are constantly changing and enough so that our systems don't recognize them, just because one is derived from another doesn't mean that we will be receptive to the other.
I honestly don't know how to really explain it further besides that the idea that "not being in contact with pathogens suddenly means your immune system turns off" is just not how the immune system works.