Mathematical ineptness among generally capable people
- Thread starter Ambi
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First off for doing footnotes use.[footnote][ footnote ] [ /footnote ][/footnote]Ambi said:
Anyway people who are good at things like English and languages tend to be bad at Maths because their brain has become more focused on the areas dealing with language and creativity while people who are good at Maths tend to have their brain more focused on the areas regarding that type of logic and problem solving.
I agree that maths is probably the most important invention/discovery, but it's not the only way to understand the universe...Tipsy Giant said:
I can simplify and explain a large number of scientific theories to anyone. I understand and can describe the latest theories on the big bang and how the universe was created. I comprehend the significance and psychology behind dreaming. I can write and speak with eloquence and originality. I'm a musician, an actor, I compose, I draw, I'm good at sport, I understand and speak a huge vocabulary of words from a variety of foreign languages. I possess a staggering quantity of general knowledge and can speak with confidence on almost any subject. I'm empathic, world savvy, independent and a free thinker...
Yet despite all this, despite all my understanding and skills and experience...
The other day I was asked to calculate something like this in my head...
6+3+8+9+3+7
When I confidently answered and felt genuine pride in having what I thought was the right answer, I was met with eyes filled with disbelief...
I genuinely believed the answer to the sum above was 46... I never could work out how I failed so miserably at such a basic mathematical calculation...
So yeah, I feel like a poster child for what this thread is talking about
These two things are directly related. There are many ways to explain most mathematical concepts, and many schools/teachers/educational systems seem to be fixated or standardized on using ones that aren't terribly good. Many of the teachers don't really understand what they're teaching all that well, either, so they may not even be aware of other ways to teach the concept, much less be able to come up with which one is appropriate for a particular student or class.Ambi said:
I used to be a math tutor. I saw the results of that first-hand. One year I worked with someone who absolutely could not understand what was going on in his class and was close to failing. I looked at what they were working on and the book they were using...and got rid of it all. We started over from the beginning, and I looked at what he was having trouble with, and, more importantly, why it didn't make sense to him, and I had to come up with a different approach to address that. Once I did, he made it to the top five in his class within a few months. He may not have been doing things exactly the same way the teacher or the rest of the class were, but he understood the ideas behind them just fine once they were put into terms he could make sense of.
Obviously not everyone is going to be great at it, but I'm convinced that most people are capable of getting the hang of the basics well enough, and the biggest obstacle to that (ignoring the ones who just don't care and don't want to put any effort into learning) is the way it's taught. The way it's presented is usually boring and obtuse, which doesn't help much. I'm not entirely sure how to fix it, but it would probably have to start with the teachers themselves being taught better, because they're just doing what they've been told. We can't expect them to do anything different if they don't have the tools or the understanding of the subject to do so.
Just to be pedantic, you're mainly talking about arithmetic. "Real" math at a higher level is actually much more related to logic/reasoning than it is to the plain old arithmetic kids do in school.
I prefer Academical subjects like Philosophy and History. I absolutely suck at Maths, i'm horrible at it and remembering what to do.
tl:dr
Anyway, I can't get anywhere beyond just hoping to scrape through calc so yeah...
It's a really nasty tether for people who are generally above par.
Anyway, I can't get anywhere beyond just hoping to scrape through calc so yeah...
It's a really nasty tether for people who are generally above par.
Hmm, I'm not amazing at it but I'm not terrible either. I find a lot of maths tends to involve thinking about it in the right way, once you can do that it all makes one hell of a lot more sense. That said I'm planning on getting a degree in biotechnology simply because I don't think I'm good enough at maths to do something like chemical engineering.
I think that people who are 'bad' at maths just haven't grasped what it is. It can't really be explained, but once you can understand that it is a different language and it's own system of undeniable logic, then everything will seem to fall into place.
As I said, it can't really be explained, so that last sentence is a futile attempt to sum up [sorry] what I feel is the best way to try and explain the unexplainable.
Progressing with maths is like progressing with music. You can learn the pieces [or how to solve problems], but you only really start making ground when you start thinking for yourself. You can play a piece [solve a problem], but only when you start to add your own interpretation will it really come alive. In maths adding your own interpretation is finding your own method around a problem. Obviously in a simple problem like 5+8, there aren't that many new ways around it, other than adding it together, but once you start reaching more complex questions, there can be multiple solutions, not just the one a teacher told you.
To put this is context, I am about to start a 4 Year Maths Degree [in England], and I have A* in Maths A-Level a year early, and I am currently doing Further Maths A-Level. I also tutor many other pupils in my school in maths, with ages ranging from 11-16.
As I said, it can't really be explained, so that last sentence is a futile attempt to sum up [sorry] what I feel is the best way to try and explain the unexplainable.
Progressing with maths is like progressing with music. You can learn the pieces [or how to solve problems], but you only really start making ground when you start thinking for yourself. You can play a piece [solve a problem], but only when you start to add your own interpretation will it really come alive. In maths adding your own interpretation is finding your own method around a problem. Obviously in a simple problem like 5+8, there aren't that many new ways around it, other than adding it together, but once you start reaching more complex questions, there can be multiple solutions, not just the one a teacher told you.
To put this is context, I am about to start a 4 Year Maths Degree [in England], and I have A* in Maths A-Level a year early, and I am currently doing Further Maths A-Level. I also tutor many other pupils in my school in maths, with ages ranging from 11-16.
I have never really liked/understood some of the more complex Math that comes with what I studied at degree level - games programming. My boyfriend however is my complete opposite, he got an A* in Maths and a D in English whereas I got an A* in English and somehow managed a B in Maths (GCSE level Maths.) It's useful though as it means we can help each other out in the areas we're weaker in.
My teachers back at school were also useless e.g. one of them spent most of her time prancing around the classroom tapping us with a magic fairy wand (I'm not joking) if we were talking to each other. She should have been helping us to understand stuff we were struggling with rather than being a fairy princess.
My teachers back at school were also useless e.g. one of them spent most of her time prancing around the classroom tapping us with a magic fairy wand (I'm not joking) if we were talking to each other. She should have been helping us to understand stuff we were struggling with rather than being a fairy princess.
I like to think myself a creative person and I used to be a straggler who consistently failed tests and exams in maths and most other sciences, while scoring top of the class in languages, arts (especially visual arts) and other non-science subjects.
I don't think it had anything to do with ineptitude though. Most sciences simply don't interest me, resulting in me putting in next to no effort. The fact that the schools I went to all taught sciences in a very traditional and (to me) highly uninteresting fashion didn't help much. The few tests and exams where I actually tried to put in effort, I always got very high marks.
I don't think it had anything to do with ineptitude though. Most sciences simply don't interest me, resulting in me putting in next to no effort. The fact that the schools I went to all taught sciences in a very traditional and (to me) highly uninteresting fashion didn't help much. The few tests and exams where I actually tried to put in effort, I always got very high marks.
I'm one of the people the OP mentioned that have no problem with formal logic, yet are "bad" at math.
Actually, I haven't tried to do much advanced math for years now and I probably would have no problem relearning it. I don't think it's usually taught well at all in the first place though.
Like others have said, when you first learn it, it seems like a completely arbitrary juxtaposition of fragmented formulae which you have no choice but to memorize. If teachers showed their students how these mathematical principles are connected, and what is truly exciting about them (and there is inspiration to be had here) then fewer students would avoid the subject. It has little if anything to do with individual people having a harder time with computation.
Actually, I haven't tried to do much advanced math for years now and I probably would have no problem relearning it. I don't think it's usually taught well at all in the first place though.
Like others have said, when you first learn it, it seems like a completely arbitrary juxtaposition of fragmented formulae which you have no choice but to memorize. If teachers showed their students how these mathematical principles are connected, and what is truly exciting about them (and there is inspiration to be had here) then fewer students would avoid the subject. It has little if anything to do with individual people having a harder time with computation.
how don't you understand math it is the only subject that makes sense. it is the basis of all sciences and it is pure numbers. it is so nice way better than English. how the fuck am i supposed to know what the author meant? 2+2=4 there easy everyone agrees. also my grade 9 math teacher was easily the best teacher i ever had, but i lived math before that.
The problem is, you don't owe twice as many apples. If you owed 2 apples, and then had twice as much debt, it would be -2 apples times 2, not a -2.Corum1134 said:
An earlier poster linked to a few good examples of how to imagine multiplying two negative numbers. This was one I liked:
Imagine you receive 5 bills in the mail, each for 7 dollars. You would owe a total of 35 dollars, or basically, you would have -35 dollars.
Now imagine that instead, you are the one sending out those bills. You would have -5 bills (since you're giving them out), each for -7 dollars (what the bill says is owed). In this situation, you would be receiving 35 dollars, so the answer would be a positive 35.
I guess some people's minds just can't grasp it (like I can't grasp eating spaghetti. That shit is stupid). But I got an A at A-level maths/mechanics so fuck that! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!
Apparently musicians tend to be good at maths, although I cannot remember the explanation behind it. I thought that was mildly interesting and relevant.
Apparently musicians tend to be good at maths, although I cannot remember the explanation behind it. I thought that was mildly interesting and relevant.
I got A's at GCSE Maths, at A-Level I'm totally fucked.
I like to think it's because I've reached my natural limit, but it's probably a combination of that and finding it so boring I want to slit my wrists.
Worst is I can't drop it before the years up or I'll have to tell my Dad (a Maths teacher) that I've done so. Too scared.
I like to think it's because I've reached my natural limit, but it's probably a combination of that and finding it so boring I want to slit my wrists.
Worst is I can't drop it before the years up or I'll have to tell my Dad (a Maths teacher) that I've done so. Too scared.