Mature Games That Cater to Adults

[mrpropal]

Mature games are those that maintain our suspension of disbelief.

If we consider relevant not the nature of the content, on which "mature" is a subjective value (or so the thread suggests), but the level of immersion and emotional engagement of the player, then a mature game is one in which we believe while we play it.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

The Witcher 2 and Dark Souls.

I can haz thread victory now?

There are plenty of mature games for adults who want a mature character driven story.

I'm not sure if you're joking or just a complete moron. Did you even read the OP? and even if you only read the thread title, you're still wrong.

Those games are a step up from your average shooter, but they are still mired in what would be considered childish storytelling and teenage masturbatory fantasies if they were movies.

Did you just personally attack my intelligence?

Oh dear, a report for you.

Maturity isn't measured by complexity, it's measured by how a topic is handled.

 

[Kahunaburger]

The Witcher 2 and Dark Souls.

I can haz thread victory now?

There are plenty of mature games for adults who want a mature character driven story.

I'm not sure if you're joking or just a complete moron. Did you even read the OP? and even if you only read the thread title, you're still wrong.

Those games are a step up from your average shooter, but they are still mired in what would be considered childish storytelling and teenage masturbatory fantasies if they were movies.

I'm not convinced of that - you don't see the New York Times write this [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/22/arts/video-games/witcher-2-new-from-cd-projekt-red-in-poland-video-game-review.html] sort of article about most movies. Dark Souls I've never played, so I can't speak to that one.

 

[Puzzlenaut]

The Witcher 2 and Dark Souls.

I can haz thread victory now?

There are plenty of mature games for adults who want a mature character driven story.

I'm not sure if you're joking or just a complete moron. Did you even read the OP? and even if you only read the thread title, you're still wrong.

Those games are a step up from your average shooter, but they are still mired in what would be considered childish storytelling and teenage masturbatory fantasies if they were movies.

Did you just personally attack my intelligence?

Oh dear, a report for you.

Maturity isn't measured by complexity, it's measured by how a topic is handled.

Well I hope you feel better about yourself for reporting me, you keyboard warrior, you!

But seriously, looking through the thread, people are suggesting things like Mass Effect and even Halo:
Obviously, the idea of maturity is subjective, but I think a good way to measure it in games is to think about it as if the things that happened within it happened in a movie. Take Mass Effect for example: by the standards of games its character development is pretty much top-notch, however if it's script were used for a film, it would be a generic mess of nonsensical disjointed action sequences, cardboard-cut-out characters who explain everything about themselves in a couple of lines of exposition dialogue and ham-fisted allusions and metaphors that would have no place in any "mature" film (and I say ""mature" film" very selectively).

Calling most videogames "mature" in their handling of a topic (like the allusions between Jewish communities and Elves in Witcher 2 and Dragon Age, and the Orwellian societies of so many games (Mirror's Edge, for example)) is like calling Harry Potter mature because the Death Eaters/Voldemort/Mudbloods were a metaphor for the Nazis/Hitler/Jews; yes, they made a statement, but its one that has been made before and, more importantly, is totally over-shadowed by the all-round childishness of the game/book itself.

 

[mrpropal]

The Witcher 2 and Dark Souls.

I can haz thread victory now?

There are plenty of mature games for adults who want a mature character driven story.

I'm not sure if you're joking or just a complete moron. Did you even read the OP? and even if you only read the thread title, you're still wrong.

Those games are a step up from your average shooter, but they are still mired in what would be considered childish storytelling and teenage masturbatory fantasies if they were movies.

Mmh... not so sure. True, games have to be fun after all. But I found the subtle, often tongue-in-cheek humour of Dark Souls to be quite clever, if not mature.
And the game's aesthetics clearly draw from works of classic and modern European painting, like those of Bruegel, Bosch and Metaphysical art. Which is something (even more) appreciable to a mature audience, don't you think? (Coming from a Japanese title nonetheless. That's almost flattering <_<').

EDIT:
But I agree with your post #85.

 

[Puzzlenaut]

The Witcher 2 and Dark Souls.

I can haz thread victory now?

There are plenty of mature games for adults who want a mature character driven story.

I'm not sure if you're joking or just a complete moron. Did you even read the OP? and even if you only read the thread title, you're still wrong.

Those games are a step up from your average shooter, but they are still mired in what would be considered childish storytelling and teenage masturbatory fantasies if they were movies.

Mmh... not so sure. True, games have to be fun after all. But I found the subtle, often tongue-in-cheek humour of Dark Souls to be quite clever, if not mature.
And the game's aesthetics clearly draw from works of classic and modern European painting, like those of Bruegel, Bosch and Metaphysical art. Which is something (even more) appreciable to a mature audience, don't you think? (Coming from a Japanese title nonetheless. That's almost flattering <_<').

EDIT:
But I agree with your post #85.

To be honest, I've never actually played Dark Souls or Demon Souls; when I got all frothy mouthed and raging when I first clicked on this topic to see the first post I replied to, it was the idea that the Witcher is a mature game when there isn't really anything to it besides killing people with pretty scenery

 

[GonzoGamer]

Well.
There are two kinds.
There's the games like Heavy Rain which are pretentious games that cater to people who want to think they're adults because they're patient enough to sit through the most boring crap imaginable.
And then there's the games like Eve that are mature based on the player base and the way they treat the game; then those who don't treat it maturely are understandably chastised for it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

To be honest, I've never actually played Dark Souls or Demon Souls; when I got all frothy mouthed and raging when I first clicked on this topic to see the first post I replied to, it was the idea that the Witcher is a mature game when there isn't really anything to it besides killing people with pretty scenery

Meh? Untrue. Witcher 2 has some pretty solid socio-political depth. This is a really curious charge to lay against it.

 

[ElPatron]

This thread had a catastrophic failure even before take off.

If you use GTA San Andreas as an example of all rated +18 games then there is something wrong with the way you are looking at games.

 

[Kahunaburger]

To be honest, I've never actually played Dark Souls or Demon Souls; when I got all frothy mouthed and raging when I first clicked on this topic to see the first post I replied to, it was the idea that the Witcher is a mature game when there isn't really anything to it besides killing people with pretty scenery

Meh? Untrue. Witcher 2 has some pretty solid socio-political depth. This is a really curious charge to lay against it.

It has at least one boob and one fight in it, ergo not mature. If I'm following Puzzlenaut's logic correctly.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The OP wants both. He doesn't want Inception, he wants Game Of Thrones. And when there is one example in recent gaming memory that *arguably* fits the bill (The Witcher), I consider that a problem.

Wait, why are we picking on Inception now? Inception was a very clever film.

And if Witcher is the ONLY example in recent memory of a "mature" game we're dealing with a curiously specific definition of "mature". Darn that Emiscary! Stirring up the pot like this!

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Are you guys even reading my posts? I was not bashing Inception.

How dare you imply I can't read! Between this and your ceaseless and relentless bashing of both Inception and Game of Thrones...that does it! I challenge you to a DUEL, Sir!

[sub][sub][sub]I read it but judging by your response I don't think I understood it.[/sub][/sub][/sub]

 

[Puzzlenaut]

To be honest, I've never actually played Dark Souls or Demon Souls; when I got all frothy mouthed and raging when I first clicked on this topic to see the first post I replied to, it was the idea that the Witcher is a mature game when there isn't really anything to it besides killing people with pretty scenery

Meh? Untrue. Witcher 2 has some pretty solid socio-political depth. This is a really curious charge to lay against it.

It has at least one boob and one fight in it, ergo not mature. If I'm following Puzzlenaut's logic correctly.

I'm just gonna copy and paste a chunk of an earlier post of mine:

"Calling most videogames "mature" in their handling of a topic (like the allusions between Jewish communities and Elves in Witcher 2 and Dragon Age, and the Orwellian societies of so many games (Mirror's Edge, for example)) is like calling Harry Potter mature because the Death Eaters/Voldemort/Mudbloods were a metaphor for the Nazis/Hitler/Jews; yes, they made a statement, but its one that has been made before and, more importantly, is totally over-shadowed by the all-round childishness of the game/book itself."

Do you get what I mean? The Witcher dabbles in some light pseudo-socio-political stuff here and there, I do agree, but overall it is not a mature piece of art. It isn't just about whether it has violence or not (though I can see my post you quoted would give that impression); the game I consider most mature with regards to being a work of art is Bioshock. Even though on top of the truly stunning setting, intriguing characters and critique of Objectivism as an ideology, there is a hell of a lot of gratuitous, cartoonish violence as well.

At the end of the day, these are still games, and games have to have engaging gameplay, however the difference between Bioshock and the Witcher is that in Bioshock, the feeling (for me at least) is that the gameplay is the raison d'etre for the main story, setting and exploration of themes therein, whilst with the Witcher is the reverse: a superficial layer of tired metaphors are used as an excuse for the killing to occur.

 

[Stilkon]

Despite all the creepily anthropomorphized (sic?) body parts of women, I think Catherine might be the closest thing we get. I used to think Farenheit did too, but then I saw my friend actually play through one of the sex scenes.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

At the end of the day, these are still games, and games have to have engaging gameplay, however the difference between Bioshock and the Witcher is that in Bioshock, the feeling (for me at least) is that the gameplay is the raison d'etre for the main story, setting and exploration of themes therein, whilst with the Witcher is the reverse: a superficial layer of tired metaphors are used as an excuse for the killing to occur.

Well, that's certainly a more cogent argument, but I'll have to continue disagree. I don't think it was a superficial layer at all. There's actually quite a lot of lore and world building going on in The Witcher. We might not be talking about Ulysses here, and you're correct in your comment that even the most erudite game is often going to struggle integrating story and gameplay (especially when so much gameplay relies on hysterical levels of violence in order to generate conflict), but I think Witcher 2 merits more respect than you've given it. I found its grey, morally ambiguous world a lot more intriguing than you did. But maybe I just have an appetite for that kind of thing. I read a lot of Martin and Abercrombie.

Should probably mention I haven't actually played DA:O, so these comments are entirely based on what I've heard about it. If it doesn't make sense, just replace it with New Vegas and you get the idea. While Inception and Portal are great, mature works of art on their own, they don't incorporate both types of maturity. And The Witcher - which again, I haven't played - is the only one in the comments which looks like it does. The reason I take issue with this is because it smacks of people still not having grown out of the mindset that all games are for kids, when even the most mature ones are toned down.

That makes perfect sense now. Gaming does seem to fall into the "PG-13" trap even more aggressively than films do. As for DA:O...it was as much a question of bad animation as the awkwardness of underwear. That, and Bioware can never really get the tone of romances right. All the awkward hand holding and leering and weird, off-kilter dialogue. Witcher 2's straight-to-the-point boning might be crass in comparison but it felt a lot more true to life.

 

[Kahunaburger]

To be honest, I've never actually played Dark Souls or Demon Souls; when I got all frothy mouthed and raging when I first clicked on this topic to see the first post I replied to, it was the idea that the Witcher is a mature game when there isn't really anything to it besides killing people with pretty scenery

Meh? Untrue. Witcher 2 has some pretty solid socio-political depth. This is a really curious charge to lay against it.

It has at least one boob and one fight in it, ergo not mature. If I'm following Puzzlenaut's logic correctly.

I'm just gonna copy and paste a chunk of an earlier post of mine:

"Calling most videogames "mature" in their handling of a topic (like the allusions between Jewish communities and Elves in Witcher 2 and Dragon Age, and the Orwellian societies of so many games (Mirror's Edge, for example)) is like calling Harry Potter mature because the Death Eaters/Voldemort/Mudbloods were a metaphor for the Nazis/Hitler/Jews; yes, they made a statement, but its one that has been made before and, more importantly, is totally over-shadowed by the all-round childishness of the game/book itself."

Hmm... not what the New York Times writer thought. (Also, I think you may be conflating allegory and applicability here.)

Do you get what I mean? The Witcher dabbles in some light pseudo-socio-political stuff here and there, I do agree, but overall it is not a mature piece of art. It isn't just about whether it has violence or not (though I can see my post you quoted would give that impression); the game I consider most mature with regards to being a work of art is Bioshock. Even though on top of the truly stunning setting, intriguing characters and critique of Objectivism as an ideology, there is a hell of a lot of gratuitous, cartoonish violence as well.

See, I on the other hand felt that Bioshock had no characters of note and was ham-fisted in its response to Objectivism to the point that it failed as a critique of a philosophy that is very deserving of a critique. The setting was pretty good, though.

At the end of the day, these are still games, and games have to have engaging gameplay, however the difference between Bioshock and the Witcher is that in Bioshock, the feeling (for me at least) is that the gameplay is the raison d'etre for the main story, setting and exploration of themes therein, whilst with the Witcher is the reverse: a superficial layer of tired metaphors are used as an excuse for the killing to occur.

"Raison d'etre" means "reason for existence." Do you mean that the story is the raison d'etre for the gameplay in Bioshock? I'd say that in that game, both story and gameplay take a back seat to level design. Witcher 2 does the modern RPG thing where gameplay and story occur on separate sides of a barbed-wire fence, but both are good enough to stand on their own.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

The Witcher 2

Hardly mature. Falls more in the teenage hardcore part than actually mature part.

Lots of gratituous female nudity doesn't make something actually mature.

There aren't many truly mature games around. Xenogears, Planescape Torment, Valkyrie Profile and some of the Ultimas Xenosaga* come to mind, but that's about it.

**opens mouth**

**closes mouth**

Yeah, what zefiris said.

As much as I love Mass Effect, the OP's comment about relationships that "culminate at the first orgasm" (and pants on sex) are clearly digs ON Mass Effect (and Dragon Age). The fact that your relationship with a character can be summed up as: "choose dialogue to initiate, complete loyalty quest, reach second to last mission, have sex with character, finish game". Don't get me wrong, I thought they were well handled for a game - but they are still very artificial at times, and they STILL are set up so that "sex once" = complete.

I'm just saying, it would be nice if "sleep with the character" wasn't the goal of a romantic relationship. That's actually one reason I liked the Isabella relationship in DA2 - you have sex first, and THEN the relationship gets interesting.

tldr: I don't think the OP is looking for more sex - I think the OP wants to see a relationship mature beyond a one-night stand.

*[sub]Previous post altered slightly because I have never played the Ultima series.[/sub]

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Previous post altered slightly because I have never played the Ultima series.

I'd demand you remedy that immediately, but I think Ultima has passed beyond the threshold of acceptable retro gaming. Even I would have a hard time getting into, say, Ultima IV at this point, and I'd be approaching it through a haze of nostalgia.

Pity. They're arguably the most influential and essential RPG series of all time.

 

[theparsonski]

Just an example of the kind of people who play CoD (I know it's not hugely relevant but it's funny.)
A conversation I had with a kid of about 12 but with the mental age of someone way beyond his years, while playing MW2 online.

Him: "What games do you play?"
Me: "Y'know, Halo, Oblivion, Mario Galaxy, Battlefield, stuff like that..."
Him: "Mario is a kids game, and Halo is really gay, its got all aliens and stuff. That's really babyish."
Me: "Umm..."
Him: "MOM, MAKE ME A SANDWICH!...
...ER, I DUNNO, PEANUT BUTTER! WHAT? NO THAT WASN'T ME, STOP BLAMING ME FOR EVERYTHING, FOR GODS SAKE! ...
...
OH MY GOD NO, IT WAS KATIE!
WHAT? WHAT? NO, GET OFF, I'M PLAYING A GAME. MOM FOR GOD'S SAKE, GET OFF MY -"

Then he got disconnected.

And that's the story of how I sold all my CoD games.