McDonald's Incident (follow-follow up)

[PhantomEcho]

According to the reports I've read... the 'High-Schooler' he killed was a friend, and the death was due to the negligent discharge of a firearm after he and the other kid got into some sort of an altercation over it. There was no malice or history of violence. It was an accidental, wrongful death.

And this? This was two women BLATANTLY committing assault getting their asses handed to them by a man defending himself. Believe me. I like women. I'd be the first guy to come down on your ass with a hammer if I saw you hurting one... but this guy was defending himself.

He didn't 'keep hitting' the damn girl, either. She kept TRYING to get up to come at him again.


It's easy to see a couple of women and think 'Aww, how sad. What a terrible monster that guy is'. But what folks're neglecting to mention in all of this is that those two women ALSO had criminal histories. They were violent. They were JUMPING over the counter to continue to assault a man who was in FULL RETREAT.

He armed himself only after they followed him and continued to attack him.

That right there is the textbook definition of responsible self-defense. He applied only as much force as was required to end the threat. If anything, I would note the reaction of the co-workers who allegedly restrained him as being negligent. Where were they? Why in the hell weren't THEY doing anything to stop a couple of violent women who jumped over the counter?

I'll tell you why... because they still have goddamn jobs.

But not him, oh no! He gets fired for not letting two women beat the shit out of him because he was about to catch them with what I'm sure was most likely a counterfeit bill.

Yeah. Burn him at the stake folks.

I'll go get my pitchfork.

 

[manic_depressive13]

if multiple people hit him, then proceeded to approach him, then he is legally able to defend himself under those conditions. If it results in the perps accidental death, so be it. As long as he didn't execute them, he would be legally clear. I doubt most of the people causing an uproar would be as mad at him if it were two burly men that jumped the counter

that's sexism.


sorry for the triple post

You honestly think there would be no complaints if it was a few men's skulls which he crushed with a metal pipe? What kind of fucked up people do you associate with? That's not sexism. That's a baseless assumption you're making in an attempt to legitimise your support of unwarranted violence. It has nothing to do with the sexes of the people involved. Some people merely feel that there are better ways of dealing with dickheads than beating them repeatedly with a metal pipe. Yes, those girls were absolutely in the wrong, but do you really think they deserved to get beaten to the point of brain damage? At the very least he should have stopped sooner than he did. He wasn't afraid for his life. He was pissed.

What the fuck is with people trying to shoehorn sexism into every single incident involving violence and women. I know it's really hard to be a guy, what with not being allowed to beat the shit out of someone without people questioning whether it was really necessary, but please get over it. It's not even remotely valid in this context. Everyone involved should be charged, including the girls who attempted assault and the guy who actually achieved it.

I'm just waiting for this guy to snap again, maybe take a life. Then the idiots who let him off with no charges can know they're responsible for someones death, 'cause they thought a psycho was in the right.

Good to see the logic we've got going here with some people. Someone pushes you, you break their legs.

Someone slaps you, you bash their face in.

Someone punches you, you rip their heart out and scream, "Kali ma"

Thank you. Someone with a healthy sense of proportion. "They started it" doesn't give you concession to do whatever the hell you want to someone.

 

[Darkstorm13]

Well... that's pretty racist. And... uh wow.

Where the fuck did that come from?

Or maybe it's just that they're American. Either way, if the girls didn't have an "I'm the fucking queen of everything" attitude like black girls tend to, they wouldn't have slapped him and jumped over the counter. Somehow I just can't imagine any white person going that far, certainly not in my country anyway

... Wow.

Yeah. Good noble White people would never go that far, but a lowly black person certainly would. White power, am I right?

People like you disgust me. But looking at your low post count, I'm gonna assume you're just a troll.

Because I have a low post count you assume I'm a troll? Look at the date I joined. I only recently started using the forums. Not every new user is a troll. And I never really said blacks were any worse than whites, just that they tend to have more of an attitude and a tendency to fight back. Stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[OriginalLadders]

Good. He was defending himself.

Hindsight is perfect; it's easy for us to judge whether or not the force he employed was excessive (it was) after the fact and separate from the situation, but things are different when you're the one defending yourself.

I may also be biased by the fact that people who had an obviously massively over-inflated sense of entitlement got the crap beaten out of them. I like it when that happens.

 

[Darkmantle]

.. No charges? Spite that the girl started it and went a bit 'crazy' behind the counter to stir up a mess, he should be charged since he pounded her face brutally over and over with a metal rod (which of course, in any other case that would be automatic jail time where I live.) Honestly if he gets off this easily, who knows what he'll do next. If someone talks smack toward him, he'll probably whip out another beating or repeat the habit.

I mean, he already killed a student at a high school.. and went way overboard on the job beating that lady senselessly. I could be wrong, but this may encourage his violent behavior. What were the people thinking letting him off without any charges or least some restriction? (As in, let off the job or suspended..)

Ether way, I hope the girl recovers but learns her lesson to not get rational because you never know how people will react. Just to throw out there, if someone acts up then does that give me the right to brutally inflict them to my liking? (Hope this never happens, but I am stating this because the rules are clear that you're not suppose to harm a human being to such a degree unless it's self defense.)

The thing you are missing is that he was outnumbered, so that justified the use of a weapon, and they jumped the counter to attack him. It was clear self defence, he backed away, THEY freaked out. Calling upon his past is irrelevant, as it had nothing to do with this case. If anything it showed the rehabilitation worked as he didn't beat them to death.

Also I read somewhere that the murder was actually a misfire from careless handling, not an out an out murder. I don't remember the source though

..Outnumbered? There were two other employees though thus he could of had them restrained along with calling the cops to get them arrested but instead he took action to his own hands and decided to beat the girl with a metal rod. Also self defense relies on your life being in danger.. he was perfectly fine just was getting slapped a bit by the crazed out girl. Both of them are at fault, and doing that to her doesn't justify his right to abuse the self defense because that's an excuse to take a human life when they're already on the ground, not a danger anymore yet being beaten still exceeds that right toward downhill.

We're talking about a dude who already murdered a teenager from high school, so defending his case is alright but his actions already speak out that he went over the top by beating the girl until she would die. People tend to think self defense means you have a right to kill someone no matter what, but really self defense is making the person unable to harm you, and calling the cops once they're down would be the right thing to do (in fact, they didn't have weapons on them so if the other employees helped, this could of all been avoided really.)

To clarify.. if you already taken down the attacker, should you have the right to beat them to death when you're no longer in danger? I would expect a fine or something charged toward this guy but the laws are twisted with a blind eye if you know what I mean.

Yes out numbered. As I stated before the other employees weren't coming to help him, so he was on his own, so all that goes right out the window. The other employees are the ones who should be criticized for not immediately helping him, this could have been avoided otherwise. Also, getting slapped, not that bad, the very instant the woman came over the counter at him, and her friend around it, they committed assault, his life was in danger at that moment. Also, you seem to forget he stopped hitting them when they hit the ground, swinging again only when they tried to get back up. It's not like he beat them while they were down, if he did, he would have been charged because that is illegal. But he didn't so that point is moot.

People keep bringing up he murdered someone, so what? Again, I heard it was a misfire from an improperly handled gun, not a under with malicious intent, so unless you know the details of that case, it's totally beyond this situation. But even if the murder was malicious, as you assume, this is proof prison worked for him. He beat them until they hit the ground, he didn't jump on them and keep wailing on them, he stopped. He showed restraint.

And no, you don't have the right to beat your attacker to death after they have hit the ground. and you shouldn't be allowed to. Notice he didn't? The injuries that so many are freaking out about no doubt happened in the initial attack, as such fall under self defence.

And honestly, do you seriously believe that the police are somehow purposely turning a blind eye, when the person in question is an ex-convict? the police probably want to charge him as much as you do! That they can't probably pisses them off. I mean, I could understand if he was a cop's kid, or an officer in training, but he's not, so I don't know what makes you think they are turning a blind eye to this.

 

[PhantomEcho]

I may also be biased by the fact that people who had an obviously massively over-inflated sense of entitlement got the crap beaten out of them. I like it when that happens.

Then you'll especially love the part where these two women are repeat offenders! That's right, those gals who got their asses beaten were drunk, obnoxious -criminals-. They have a history of this kind of thuggish behavior. This poor fellow was just the most recent.

At any rate, you have it exactly right. Hindsight is perfect. We know now that the two women were unarmed, and posed no life-threatening risk to Mr. McIntosh. At the time, however, they were two young women who breached the counter at a fast food restaurant after assaulting a cashier.

Now, where I come from, that sort of thing is deemed an indicator for the intention to commit significant personal harm. In such an instance, even his swift and brutal reaction is deemed perfectly reasonable. He inflicted only as much damage as was required to keep the one young woman from getting up and continuing to attack him.

Because if you watch the video you'll see, even after the first few strikes... she doesn't stop advancing. She continues to press the attack up until the moment she goes down, and then refuses to remain down.

All the while, I see absolutely zero assistance being offered from his co-workers. Instead, they attempt to restrain him. Why? Not because of the level of force he used, but because company policy dictates that they aren't allowed to defend themselves!

Ask anyone who has worked at a Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Burger King, or Staples.

It doesn't matter where you work, corporate policy these days -demands- that you never raise a hand to you customer... even as they beat you into an incoherent pulp. That the man has a criminal history is only coincidental. He works in a minimum-wage paying fast food industry job. The chances of -any- employee having a criminal history there are quite high. That isn't the factor that should be being focused on.

What should be being focused on is the fact that the company fired him for a violation of company policy BEFORE the D/A and Court decided whether they were actually going to press charges. He lost his job not because of the brutality of his response, but because he responded at all!

And that's just shameful. Utterly shameful.

 

[Darkmantle]

if multiple people hit him, then proceeded to approach him, then he is legally able to defend himself under those conditions. If it results in the perps accidental death, so be it. As long as he didn't execute them, he would be legally clear. I doubt most of the people causing an uproar would be as mad at him if it were two burly men that jumped the counter

that's sexism.


sorry for the triple post

You honestly think there would be no complaints if it was a few men's skulls which he crushed with a metal pipe? What kind of fucked up people do you associate with? That's not sexism. That's a baseless assumption you're making in an attempt to legitimise your support of unwarranted violence. It has nothing to do with the sexes of the people involved. Some people merely feel that there are better ways of dealing with dickheads than beating them repeatedly with a metal pipe. Yes, those girls were absolutely in the wrong, but do you really think they deserved to get beaten to the point of brain damage? At the very least he should have stopped sooner than he did. He wasn't afraid for his life. He was pissed.

What the fuck is with people trying to shoehorn sexism into every single incident involving violence and women. I know it's really hard to be a guy, what with not being allowed to beat the shit out of someone without people questioning whether it was really necessary, but please get over it. It's not even remotely valid in this context. Everyone involved should be charged, including the girls who attempted assault and the guy who actually achieved it.

(man, what is up with the escapist eating my posts)
Yes, I honestly think most people wouldn't have minded, and I don't associate with those people. oh here's a quote I just found for you

"I'm going to cut you, I'm going to f--- you up"

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rayon-mcintosh-mcdonald-cook-testifies-grand-jury-bid-beat-assault-rap-article-1.984700#ixzz1fr0d8Dlx

this is what the women were screaming at him when they leapt over the counter. He had every reason to assume they were armed and dangerous. Attempting to restrain someone who has a knife is putting yourself in serious danger. Before I didn't even know what was said, but with this new information, yes, he was totally justified. He used a weapon against someone who threatened him with a weapon, I am not surprised. Under those conditions, I'm sure many people would have reacted as he did, arming themselves and striking first. And waiting to see if they were bluffing, could result in great bodily harm if they weren't.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Well... that's pretty racist. And... uh wow.

Where the fuck did that come from?

Or maybe it's just that they're American. Either way, if the girls didn't have an "I'm the fucking queen of everything" attitude like black girls tend to, they wouldn't have slapped him and jumped over the counter. Somehow I just can't imagine any white person going that far, certainly not in my country anyway

... Wow.

Yeah. Good noble White people would never go that far, but a lowly black person certainly would. White power, am I right?

People like you disgust me. But looking at your low post count, I'm gonna assume you're just a troll.

Because I have a low post count you assume I'm a troll? Look at the date I joined. I only recently started using the forums. Not every new user is a troll. And I never really said blacks were any worse than whites, just that they tend to have more of an attitude and a tendency to fight back. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Fine then. I'll just use your own words to point out your racism.

I just think it probably wouldn't have gotten so out of hand if the customers were white (or asian etc).

Because black's are naturally more violent than other races?

if the girls didn't have an "I'm the fucking queen of everything" attitude like black girls tend to, they wouldn't have slapped him and jumped over the counter. Somehow I just can't imagine any white person going that far, certainly not in my country anyway

Because once again, Black people are naturally more terrible people than whites? Your words, not mine.

I've dated a black girl before. Never gave me the slightest indication that she was entitled to anything.

Yeah, you may not be the KKK incarnate or anything, but you are a blatant racist which in some ways is worse. I don't know where you come from, but you need to kinda grow out of that stone age mentality.

 

[Darkstorm13]

Yeah, you may not be the KKK incarnate or anything, but you are a blatant racist which in some ways is worse. I don't know where you come from, but you need to kinda grow out of that stone age mentality.

Because being a little racist is worse than being in the KKK. Also back in the stone age there was no racism.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

I saw that video, how convenient that the camera turns away when they are down on the ground, we can't see what the girls were doing yet we can hear that he was probably beating them several times again.

The problem is that he didn't seem to threaten them to warn them before hitting them.

 

[Vrex360]

And when the next person who annoys him gets injured, I'll be there to say 'I told you so.'
Seriously he has a daughter, the man who made sure to give someone a fractured skull after a full minute of beating and who shot and killed someone is apparently going to be given another chance at raising a child.
What happens when she enters the rebellious teenage years and starts yelling at him or dating men he doesn't like or getting tattoos without his permission? Is he going to break her jaw with a frying pan?

I'm sorry but this is disgusting, he absolutely deserves to be charged for his actions. It is NOT self defence to respond to non deadly force with deadly force and it is sure as hell not self defence to then stand over someone and repeatedly beat them with a metal implement when they are down.
There were customers screaming in terror begging him to stop and he even paused for a moment to think about it before going back to hitting them. They may have started it, but his reactions are that of an unstable and dangerous man and someone needed surgery after repeated blows to the face and head.

He was NOT a victim and he certainly was NOT a hero. He deserves prison, or at the very least to recover in some kind of asylum, just because someone else initiated the incident doesn't mean he should be earned a reprieve.
Rayon Mcintosh beat someone repeatedly and fractured her skull in with a metal bar after beating her for almost a full solid minute after she hit the ground and wasn't a threat to him. I am sickened and disgusted that anyone could call that 'self defence' or argue that his position is justified.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

I'm just waiting for this guy to snap again, maybe take a life. Then the idiots who let him off with no charges can know they're responsible for someones death, 'cause they thought a psycho was in the right.

Good to see the logic we've got going here with some people. Someone pushes you, you break their legs.

Someone slaps you, you bash their face in.

Someone punches you, you rip their heart out and scream, "Kali ma"

How would the people that let him off be responsible? It would be the murderers fault. Its like saying you are responsible for someone getting hit by a car because you didn't put a roadblock up in case it might happen.

 

[ghostrider9876]

Those words need to sink into the populace. Did their time means that they have been punished properly for their crimes in the eyes of the courts. Did their time means they are FORGIVEN by the populace as a whole for whatever crime they might have committed.

My question to my fellow escapists is this: Why should we even let people out of prison in the first place if we're just going to convict them for the rest of their lives?

Now there's a good point.

I also don't think this guy deserves any criminal charges. As someone else said already, he had no way of knowing if the women had any weapons or what they intended to do when they hit him and jumped over the counter. Did he take his reaction too far? Entirely possible. But the blame for the incident occurring in the first place rests squarely on the two women. Maybe he does need some court-mandated therapy or counseling, and maybe customer service really isn't the industry for him, but charging him criminally and sending him back to jail wouldn't have solved anything here.

 

[BabyRaptor]

He did't get anything?

I don't agree with that. At all.

Yeah, the lady started it, and hopefully she isn't skating. But he smashed her head in with a lead pipe, FFS.

 

[Darkstorm13]

It's more than a little racist really.

And lol, yeah sure @ the second comment. No doubt you're an expert on it and not someone who's just making huge leaps off of nothing.

Ok then, so being "more than a little racist" is now worse than being in the KKK. Right.

And if anyone thinks there was racism in the stone age, they're idiots. We're talking about a time before boats had been invented, except maybe small ones for carrying stuff down rivers or whatever. The different races of the world had no idea that the others even existed, hence there was no racism.

 

[Vivi22]

...what?

The guy went clearly overboard. A jail term would not have helped, since he already has been in there. Rehab, psych sessions, they might help.
The women were annoying as all fuck, but they did not deserve the merciless beating given to them.

This.

They certainly started it and he was entitled to defend himself. But his life was never in any immediate danger, nor was he in any danger at all once they had been incapacitated, yet he kept hitting them. There is a point where a situation moves from self defense to assault, and he clearly crossed that line. Now I'm not going to say that prison would have been the best way to deal with what he did. Anger management or court ordered counseling may have been better, but he still crossed a line and shouldn't go unpunished. Otherwise that sets a dangerous precedent for anyone else to assault and/or kill someone under the guise of self defense, even if the threat is no longer immediate or severe.

 

[RagTagBand]

He was justified in defending himself, which he did, but then he stopped when they were subdued and started beating them both again, then he stopped again and started beating them for a third time.

The first "round" is defense as they were the aggressors, The second and third time, however, it is patently clear that he is the aggressor. You would have to be some kind of supertard to claim the freshly-beaten-with-a-pipe women on the floor were still the key aggressors or posed a threat. He's clearly standing over them, talking shit, between bouts of violence. Claims of "Oh maybe they had a gun or a knife!" Maybe they did (but they didn't), but it is clear to see that he did not feel threatened by the women on the floor, he did not think they posed a threat. The second and third beatings he administered was little more than him exerting power and physical authority over them, he was not defending himself at that point.

He needs to be in a padded cell, away from society.

 

[Darkstorm13]

Yadda yadda yadda, you suck

No you.