ME3: Are the Reapers the Good Guys?

[Grimfolse]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Seriously, though, no. Sure, they may believe that they're in the right (as many of the best villains do), but they melt people into gray juice. I generally file those who do stuff like that in the "Villain" column.

 

[Kimarous]

"You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it."

TRULY THEY HAVE THE MORAL HIGH GROUND! (^_^)

 

[Mafoobula]

If Bioware decides to explore the "better in the long run" angle, I get the feeling it'll be smacked down with Shepard saying, "They're hurting good people, and they want me dead. Again. Screw them." Then you go right back to blasting the crap out of everything and everyone that looks at your funny. Honestly, I think that's the kind of sentiment I'd have. They hurt my friends, that's all I need to annihilate them.

 

[Darh Abdomino]

Are they the good guys? No, definitely not, genocide can definitely put a hamper on the whole Hero act. They've caused suffering, mayhem, death and I'm pretty sure Sovereign wasn't paying his taxes.

Are they the bad guys? I think not. In their minds, they are doing the galaxy, and life a service. They bring the chaos of evolution, of the roiling masses of life, and give it order. And they take the civilizations at their height, when they are strongest, genetically and culturally, in order to form a more perfect being. The reason they don't bother elaborating? They are so convinced of their viewpoint, right or wrong, that they feel like it's the equivalent of saying "I can talk" to the deaf.

But hey, maybe Bioware will take the easy way out of this morality problem, like back in KOTOR: Is it better to make oneself strong in order to rule others, for their own good (or just be a douche) or to make yourself a servant to others, knowing that your life could be better?

Oh wait they kidnapped your girlfriend and now are torching her, better choose between douche or savior.

Back on subject. Like most moral answers in ME, the answer is maybe.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Ha ha! I'd have to say nahhhhhhhh. The evil races never think what they're doing is evil though-- they have their own strategy and they think its the best way to do things, and don't think twice about cleaning out lots of us simple folk.

They farm sentience, for christs sake. I have this thing about sentience. I don't like arbitrarily killing it. I don't mind eating turkey on thanksgiving because turkeys aren't sentient. People are.

Yea this pretty much sums it all up. The Reapers is the classic Man vs Machine story and staying in step the machines are evil. But in the way the Borg are evil. Sure, quest for better technology and self improvement is a worthy cause, but not if it means wiping out entire species.

 

[NortherWolf]

Are they the bad guys? I think not. In their minds, they are doing the galaxy, and life a service. They bring the chaos of evolution, of the roiling masses of life, and give it order. And they take the civilizations at their height, when they are strongest, genetically and culturally, in order to form a more perfect being. The reason they don't bother elaborating? They are so convinced of their viewpoint, right or wrong, that they feel like it's the equivalent of saying "I can talk" to the deaf.

I don't know, from what Sovereign and Harbinger says it doesn't really seem that they believe they're doing it for the betterment of anything. They just do it.

No, they're not good guys btw, in regards to the OP.

However, I'm getting Babylon 5 vibes here...They do something but they've forgotten why they do it. So they just repeat the action for the sake of the action itself rather than the reason for the action.

 

[WeaponisedCookie]

It's hard to describe it's actions as something so ambiguous as 'right' or 'wrong'. If we were to use the wild animals example, I'm certain rabbits don't want to be slaughtered. Do they view it as evil? Bad? I doubt so, it's just something they will avoid to the best of their abilities. Humanity is far from being anything innocent. We like giving 'reasons' to cover our actions. Perhaps it's just instinct for the reapers or from an evolutionary perspective, a way for themselves to get stronger(due to the assimilation). Just just don't need the moral BS or excuses that people need to justify their less... savoury actions. I remember this quote from Rome Total War, 'War gives the right of the conquerors to impose any conditions they please upon the vanquished'. In this case it's the butchering of all life, still rings true nonetheless.

 

[Darh Abdomino]

YMMV, but after getting done with the religion section with my World Lit class, I'm getting some almost-Hindu vibes, minor ones of course. I only got a crash course, so I could be spouting complete crap, but we learned that Hindus believe that when they achieve enlightenment, they move on to the next plane of existence, where they will be connected to the other souls that achieved it into a single, glorious existence.
Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but when I hear Sovereign or Harbinger talk about our destiny, or transcendence, it just smacks me of the concept of Nirvana. I may be completely and utterly mistaken, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.

But I still stand by my previous stance of "they consider themselves above the concepts of good and evil".

 

[Soviet Steve]

You forget that Bioware philosophy is very black and white. Paragon Shepherd is opposed to them so they must be evil.

 

[theheroofaction]

Umm, How could you possibly justify this?

Seriously, they're the omnicidal maniac archetype. I mean, there isn't any more obvious villain.

 

[ZeroMachine]

To quote another Bioware game:

http://www.iocaster.com/images/stenno.png

They eradicate and enslave. Those aren't good things in any definition of the word "good".

 

[Nimcha]

The Reapers are comparable to a sentient robot race in a series of books called Revelation Space. Without spoiling too much, their motivation is that the Milky Way is doomed anyway and they want to contain intelligent life so that the casualties stay limited.

 

[garjian]

Unless the N7 uniform suddenly starts sporting skulls i think we can safely say that the stereotypically ugly Reapers are the baddies...

 

[The Bandit]

hmm... interesting.

The knee-jerk "no"ing of people is probably more interesting than the thread title..

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I'd be skeptical of the Reapers position on the moral compass, due to the fact we don't know what they are exactly and how the flesh is translated into Reaper, however if a collective consciousness was formed then... its possible they're the good guys in a Universe where there is no God in their view and they are saving people from death, and allowing them to live for hundreds of thousands (millions? Billions!!!???) of years in the only form possible for long term survival.

However... judging by how if your a dick in ME2 all you're ships crew bar the Dr gets turned into goo... hard to see how brain functionality is saved >.>

Also even if this is the case then lots of unworthy races are dispensed of and husked in the process so their still pretty low down there xD

Whats the kill/save ratio? Kill 10,000 "save"(uplift?) 1?

The "knee-jerk" reaction might have something to do with the fact that they're genocidal monsters.

 

[AD-Stu]

From a certain misanthropic viewpoint I guess you could argue they were doing "good" - much the same as we try to eliminate viruses that cause harm to humans, they're trying to eliminate viruses that cause harm to the galaxy.

They're going about it arse-backwards if that's the point though, unless there's some specific reason they can only get out of bed once every 50,000 years: otherwise, why wait until species find the Citadel and spread themselves out all across the galaxy?

And obviously as a member of the targeted species you're never going to see them as being good.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Attempted Mass-Genocide and a God-Complex?
Fuck no.

 

[Farther than stars]

I don't care what most other people are saying on these forums; I like the fact that you had an original idea that might not conform to everyone else's expectations. I acctually think a rationalization like that would add depth to the Reaper characters and then although Bioware isn't know for philosophy of this depth, it does hire exceptionally good writers, so I'd say it's certainly possible.
And it would pose a whole new array of questions as well. It would dive into spectrums (spectra?) of Descartian philosophy about existence itself and viewpoints of Hume about the need for that existence. And eventually everything might come down to whether or not Shepard saves humanity out of its own survivalist instinct, breaking in a new era, or chooses to restore the natural order of things and become part of something bigger and far more ancient than a bunch of apes sitting on a rock. Giving players that choice would be the boldest statement of gamedesign since Fallout added aliens to their universe.

P.S. I haven't played ME2 yet, but I loved ME1, so I'm really on my toes here.

 

[The Rascal King]

Here's the breakdown(from my crazy eyes):

Spoiler: Spoilerific, but not really. I do not want some butthurt to point out that I didn't use spoiler tags

Mass Effect 1:Commander Shepherd fights Saren to find out Saren was (almost quite literally) a puppet for the Reapers.

Mass Effect 2: Shepherd gets pwned and comes back and finds that the geth aren't so bad afterall and those Collecters are the real dickheads. Oh wait, they're working for someone? Who? The REAPERS? Aww shit! And these Reapers are doing all this because...

Mass Effect 3(prediction): Reapers intentions and reasons are exposed. Commander Shepherd

Spoiler: minor spoiler tag for you folk

(either in his 2nd or 3rd life)

becomes spearhead of a movement that either:

a)commands whole universe against the Reapers so that peace can be achieved, ending the trilogy

b)finds a way to level the playing field against the Reapers and the two sides go to war, spanning several games (new trilogy?) so that EA and Bioware can bathe in more nerdy sci-fi fan money.

c)Reapers love Shepherd and his ability to rally people and offer him/her the power to rule the galaxy or whatever their intentions are and Shepherd takes them up it.


I call it.