ME3: Are the Reapers the Good Guys?

[guitarsniper]

I've been thinking about this for a while, but it seems to me that from some perspectives it could be argued that the Reapers are doing the right thing. Let's go through this: In Mass Effect 2, we find out that reapers are what seem to be composite consciousnesses of races that are presumably now extinct.
So from a transhumanist perspective, wouldn't that be really good? Allowing vast numbers of a race to survive in a different form, while at the same time clearing the galaxy to allow new forms of life to evolve.
I haven't read a lot of transhumanist philosophy, so i may be using the term incorrectly, but i feel like the idea stands.
what do you guys think? from a bigger picture viewpoint, are the reapers really the good ones?

 

[Ranubis]

Ooh, good question!
I agree that the Reapers would be the ultimate transhumanist goal. However, the problem is that the Old Machines aren't letting people choose to join, they're just forcing their will on the current lifeforms. I believe that they believe they're doing the right thing, but when their good intentions require them to wage war on all life, they may need to step back and rethink their approach.

 

[Phlakes]

We are the Borg. We only wish to raise quality of life for all species. You are an imperfect being, created by an imperfect being. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

 

[The Bucket]

They seem to keep their general shape, but ultimately Reaper-fying doesnt seem to preserve most of the original race to count as preserving them, too much standardisation. And they seem to be picky about what races to use too, I find it hard to believe Humans were the only species worthy. Wheres Blasto The Reaper?

 

[Ranubis]

The only reason there isn't a krogan reaper is there are too few krogans.
That, and they would have to deal with Grunt AND Wrex at the same time. A challenge worthy of Shepard.

 

[seraphy]

They seem to keep their general shape, but ultimately Reaper-fying doesnt seem to preserve most of the original race to count as preserving them, too much standardisation. And they seem to be picky about what races to use too, I find it hard to believe Humans were the only species worthy. Wheres Blasto The Reaper?

Harbringer tells why they only choose humans to join their club. I can accept every other race but asari. Harbringer basically tells that asari aren't acceptable because they need other races to procreate, which isn't even true.

That seriously annoyed me, human are oh so special argument that doesn't hold water within the universes own rules.

I really doubt Reapers have anything else but their own survival in mind. Humans and other races just seems to be something like animals are for humans. Something to exploit.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

They seem to keep their general shape, but ultimately Reaper-fying doesnt seem to preserve most of the original race to count as preserving them, too much standardisation. And they seem to be picky about what races to use too, I find it hard to believe Humans were the only species worthy. Wheres Blasto The Reaper?

Harbringer tells why they only choose humans to join their club. I can accept every other race but asari. Harbringer basically tells that asari aren't acceptable because they need other races to procreate, which isn't even true.

That seriously annoyed me, human are oh so special argument that doesn't hold water within the universes own rules.

I really doubt Reapers have anything else but their own survival in mind. Humans and other races just seems to be something like animals are for humans. Something to exploit.

Well they gotta have something that sets them apart, I mean when you have a race of quick thinking geniuses (Salarians), A race that everyone finds bangable and are natural biotics (Asari), mini Dinosaurs that can regenerate health like nobodies business (Krogan), and fucking raptor/bird people (Turians), you kinda need your own quirk

 

[seraphy]

Well they gotta have something that sets them apart, I mean when you have a race of quick thinking geniuses (Salarians), A race that everyone finds bangable and are natural biotics (Asari), mini Dinosaurs that can regenerate health like nobodies business (Krogan), and fucking raptor/bird people (Turians), you kinda need your own quirk

Sure but portraying humans as a huge galactic Mary Sue is not exactly ideal.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Well they gotta have something that sets them apart, I mean when you have a race of quick thinking geniuses (Salarians), A race that everyone finds bangable and are natural biotics (Asari), mini Dinosaurs that can regenerate health like nobodies business (Krogan), and fucking raptor/bird people (Turians), you kinda need your own quirk

Sure but portraying humans as a huge galactic Mary Sue is not exactly ideal.

Im pretty sure that most races see humanity as a collective bunch of assholes. Besides im pretty sure the Reapers want the humans because they are genetically malleable or some crap, nothing Mary Sue-ish about it there

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Because they are able to adapt in every way. Compared to other races humanity has shown an appetite for everything from violence to love, ignorance to understanding. They have the ability to be either the galaxy's worst nightmare or be it's ultimate leader. This was why the Reapers wants to make humans part of their fleet. To "preserve" them while preventing them from destroying lesser candidate races who one day will be induced unwillingly.

The Protheans blew that chance as they merrily committed genocide, enslaved other races to do their bidding and forced them to be part of the empire. They were punished by being turned to collectors. Denied of godhood so to speak.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

There is only one reaper that is a good guy and that's Nyan cat...
Assimilating that many cute kittens causes a massive breakdown in reality.
The reapers don't speak of it.

But seriously I don't think mass universal genocide can be considered as good by any standard.

Harbringer tells why they only choose humans to join their club. I can accept every other race but asari. Harbringer basically tells that asari aren't acceptable because they need other races to procreate, which isn't even true.

I got the impression that the Asari consider 'in species' relations to be the equivalent of us having sex with our first cousin or something. Their species needs outside genetic information to thrive. At least that's what I could discern through Liara's babbling.

 

[putowtin]

That said: I can sort of understand where Saren was coming from when he said there's no point in fighting a war "we cannot win".

If we don't end war, war will end us.

 

[MLionheart]

Well we've been given no indication that the programs within Reapers are in fact the consciousness' of past races.
The impression I got, and what seems to be heavily implied within dialogue, is that all that goes on to be a Reaper is our genetics. I think the programs in Reapers are just programs. So no, I don't think they're the good guys.

 

[Erttheking]

Let me see

Mass genocide
Brainwashing
Breaking people down into genetic material
Turning corpses into canon fodder
Have wiped out at least 700 species


...I don't see it.

Also Reapers are gunning for Humans because of genetic diversity. Also how can Humans be mary sues when the Reapers completly smash their fleet at the begining of ME3 and the main goal of the game is to get OTHER species to help US?

 

[Erttheking]

I'd like to know how they're going to stop them without making Shephard a Mary Sue, or introducing some sort of hugely powerful macguffin, or a deus ex machina at some point. It took tons of spaceships and ammo just to stop Sovereign, and thousands of these things are coming.

And this is the problem. The only possible ways the Reapers could be defeated are:
- Suddenly really weak Reapers
- MacGuffin
- Deus ex machina

All three options involve retconning in some form or another.

I just hope BioWare knows what they're doing ...

Actually I have a theory that isn't an ass pull. Did you notice in the first game that Soverign's shields went down and he was disabled exactly when you killed Saren? And did you notice in the second game that Harbinger released the Collector general from his control before it was killed by the explosion/ radiation pulse? I think that when a Reaper is directily controling someone, killing that person sends a neural shock through the Reaper, leaving it disabled with no shields...wide open for attack. Maybe there is a way to exploit this?

 

[Encentrik]

What never made sense to me was the use of organics as a way to create a Reaper; in the original game, Sovereign specifically says that organics are weak, frail and that the Reapers are not organic in any way. They're sentient machines with "no beginning or end". He could've been lying but thinking about it, it doesn't really make sense that Reapers would use organics as genetic paste to be designed after the species they exterminated.

 

[hermes]

They are not conserving the other races... Reapers think very little of the races that they assimilate and consider themselves the only true life form. Even the Geth are nothing but worthless bugs to them.
There is no evidence that they even remember any of the races they assimilate to create new Reapers, or how many times the cycle has reseted. If the Reapers win, Humanity won't live through them. There will be nothing left of Humanity, the same as the Collectors, the Protheans and many more...

 

[Erttheking]

Actually I have a theory that isn't an ass pull. Did you notice in the first game that Soverign's shields went down and he was disabled exactly when you killed Saren? And did you notice in the second game that Harbinger released the Collector general from his control before it was killed by the explosion/ radiation pulse? I think that when a Reaper is directily controling someone, killing that person sends a neural shock through the Reaper, leaving it disabled with no shields...wide open for attack. Maybe there is a way to exploit this?

You know, I hadn't thought of that. You might be on to something.
Maybe the all Reapers control Shepard at once, Shepard dies/is killed somehow, the Reapers all lose their shields, and Shepard's amassed fleet mops them all up.
Reapers defeated, Shepard goes out in a blaze of glory, the galaxy is saved.
Close curtains, roll credits.

[sub]Can't wait for this game![/sub]

Or maybe Harbinger acts as a leader for the rest of the Reapers (More of less confirmed) and when he is killed it will trickle down and disable the other Reapers. Maybe the final mission will be an all out assualt on the reaper fleet where the objective is to break through and kill Harbinger, maybe while Shepard fights with someone that he is controlling. Just like the first game.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Let me see

Mass genocide
Brainwashing
Breaking people down into genetic material
Turning corpses into canon fodder
Have wiped out at least 700 species


...I don't see it.

Also Reapers are gunning for Humans because of genetic diversity. Also how can Humans be mary sues when the Reapers completly smash their fleet at the begining of ME3 and the main goal of the game is to get OTHER species to help US?

Compare them to the Shivans so to say, they seek to "preserve" the lesser races (aka non spaceflight/primitive races) and prevent races from triggering the tech singularity that gets everyone killed. This was from the orders of the Catalyst, the race who created the Reapers theory to preserve themselves and future races from being wiped out completely.

They seek to "preserve" organic life by preventing the tech singularity and Shepard finally challenges that claim to find a new way to prevent not just humanity but future races from extinction due to said singularity.