ME3 End: Do you agree with the Reapers?

[Kopikatsu]

4. If the option to perform space magic and turn everyone into a synthetic/organic hybrid was there from the outset, why on earth mess around with the cycle/harvesting? Why not just do your space magic? Problem solved, with 100% less murder and effort.

All of your questions are easily answerable and have been answered multiple times, but because the last one is easiest to explain I'll do that one:

The synthesis option isn't always available. It only comes with enough war assets and the Crucible.

I think you're missing the point, which I think is a really good one.
If all you have to do to end the cycle is build the crucible, throw an organic in there, and then have synthetics and organics united in beautiful harmony, why didn't the Reapers do that in the very beginning to save all this fuss of eradicating advanced organics every 50,000 years?

The Crucible was designed over countless cycles and further developed by countless civilizations. I doubt that the Reapers could have built the Crucible even if they had wanted to.

 

[Nimcha]

4. If the option to perform space magic and turn everyone into a synthetic/organic hybrid was there from the outset, why on earth mess around with the cycle/harvesting? Why not just do your space magic? Problem solved, with 100% less murder and effort.

All of your questions are easily answerable and have been answered multiple times, but because the last one is easiest to explain I'll do that one:

The synthesis option isn't always available. It only comes with enough war assets and the Crucible.

I think you're missing the point, which I think is a really good one.
If all you have to do to end the cycle is build the crucible, throw an organic in there, and then have synthetics and organics united in beautiful harmony, why didn't the Reapers do that in the very beginning to save all this fuss of eradicating advanced organics every 50,000 years?

Because the Reapers don't want that. It is clearly stated they want to preserve organic life as much as possible. In their eyes, the cycle is the best way to ensure that.

Remember, it's not the Reapers who make the final choice. Shepard does.

 

[Binks]

The Crucible was designed over countless cycles and further developed by countless civilizations. I doubt that the Reapers could have built the Crucible even if they had wanted to.

Oh, I see, that does kinda make sense.
That does raise the question as to why the Catalyst (the Reaper Master AI) knows how everything works despite not knowing how to build, or ever coming across, the Crucible.

 

[Nimcha]

The Crucible was designed over countless cycles and further developed by countless civilizations. I doubt that the Reapers could have built the Crucible even if they had wanted to.

Oh, I see, that does kinda make sense.
That does raise the question as to why the Catalyst (the Reaper Master AI) knows how everything works despite not knowing how to build, or ever coming across, the Crucible.

Well, that's why the Crucible has to physically be attached to the Catalyst (ie the Citadel). The Catalyst then gains access to the Crucible's abilities.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

Allow me to use metaphor to explain this thing;

Would you burn down a forest because someone made a camping fire?

If you answered no, then you are a sane, rational being. I fyou said yes you are a Reaper, and a moron.

 

[Acton Hank]

But that is all a "what if" statement.

You can't say with any sort of proof that the Quarians and Geth would have never come to peace without the Reaper invasion. There is no reason to believe that. I could easily argue that Shepard would become a Specter anyway with Nihlus giving him/her a positive review from the Eden Prime mission. Once Shepard became a Specter, there would be a complete possibility of having to deal with the geth situation eventually, either because the quarians would be going extinct and would need help or because the geth would try to expand to other colonies and the Council would need to step in.

If Shepard is the same person who was able to orchestrate peace in ME3, then Shepard should be able to do the same thing without the threat of Reaper invasion. It's not flawed logic at all.

I never stated they could never make peace, only that things would continue as they were which was down a path that leads opposite of that.

Also peace is only temporary, even IF Shepard made peace with the Geth in a Reaper-less universe the simple fact of the matter is that it could not last.

Eventually the Geth, or some other Synthetic race, would wage war on organics.

And how you reach this conclusion with proof and not speculation is beyond me.
The geth didn't want to fight organics, that's why they isolated themselves from them, they only defended themselves when the quarians attacked them. And even if they destroyed the quarians and saw organics as a threat, do you really think they'll go actively searching for cavemen in underdeveloped planets to wipe them out? The Catalyst's logic is utter bullshit and his new solutions are bullshit.

 

[Acton Hank]

What the game actually presented us as the Reapers' motivation was so lackluster and flat, that I don't even deem it worthy of discussing whether or not I agreed with it. It was fucking stupid, and it never should've been there in the first place.

If the explanation had been as simple as "we are the top of the food chain and we harvest organic civilizations to reproduce" that would have made sense, so why they decided to go in that direction is beyond my ability to comprehend.

 

[Kopikatsu]

What the game actually presented us as the Reapers' motivation was so lackluster and flat, that I don't even deem it worthy of discussing whether or not I agreed with it. It was fucking stupid, and it never should've been there in the first place.

If the explanation had been as simple as "we are the top of the food chain and we harvest organic civilizations to reproduce" that would have made sense, so why they decided to go in that direction is beyond my ability to comprehend.

They spent the first two games saying that the Reaper's goals are incomprehensible.

Most people can't comprehend the Reaper's goals. Bioware went meta.

 

[Casual Shinji]

What the game actually presented us as the Reapers' motivation was so lackluster and flat, that I don't even deem it worthy of discussing whether or not I agreed with it. It was fucking stupid, and it never should've been there in the first place.

If the explanation had been as simple as "we are the top of the food chain and we harvest organic civilizations to reproduce" that would have made sense, so why they decided to go in that direction is beyond my ability to comprehend.

You remember that part in Mass Effect 1 where you actually talk to Sovereign?

It was a great moment, because you were suddenly confronted with an enemy that was totally beyond you in every possible way. Even just talking to it through a hologram filled you with a sense of awe and fear. Suddenly giving them some sort of retarded moral of maintaining the balance of organic life was a fucking detriment to the Reapers as unstoppable godlike doombringers from beyond the blackness of space.

It's like giving Killer Bob from Twin Peaks motivation. He fucks with people's minds and kills them simply because he has the power to do so, not because of deeper moral issue.

 

[Acton Hank]

What the game actually presented us as the Reapers' motivation was so lackluster and flat, that I don't even deem it worthy of discussing whether or not I agreed with it. It was fucking stupid, and it never should've been there in the first place.

If the explanation had been as simple as "we are the top of the food chain and we harvest organic civilizations to reproduce" that would have made sense, so why they decided to go in that direction is beyond my ability to comprehend.

They spent the first two games saying that the Reaper's goals are incomprehensible.

Most people can't comprehend the Reaper's goals. Bioware went meta.

No, I comprehend that the reaper's goals don't make a lick of sense.

 

[Acton Hank]

What the game actually presented us as the Reapers' motivation was so lackluster and flat, that I don't even deem it worthy of discussing whether or not I agreed with it. It was fucking stupid, and it never should've been there in the first place.

If the explanation had been as simple as "we are the top of the food chain and we harvest organic civilizations to reproduce" that would have made sense, so why they decided to go in that direction is beyond my ability to comprehend.

You remember that part in Mass Effect 1 where you actually talk to Sovereign?

It was a great moment, because you were suddenly confronted with an enemy that was totally beyond you in every possible way. Even just talking to it through a hologram filled you with a sense of awe and fear. Suddenly giving them some sort of retarded moral of maintaining the balance of organic life was a fucking detriment to the Reapers as unstoppable godlike doombringers from beyond the blackness of space.

It's like giving Killer Bob from Twin Peaks motivation. He fucks with people's minds and kills them simply because he has the power to do so, not because of deeper moral issue.

So we agree.

 

[Nimcha]

What the game actually presented us as the Reapers' motivation was so lackluster and flat, that I don't even deem it worthy of discussing whether or not I agreed with it. It was fucking stupid, and it never should've been there in the first place.

If the explanation had been as simple as "we are the top of the food chain and we harvest organic civilizations to reproduce" that would have made sense, so why they decided to go in that direction is beyond my ability to comprehend.

They spent the first two games saying that the Reaper's goals are incomprehensible.

Most people can't comprehend the Reaper's goals. Bioware went meta.

No, I comprehend that the reaper's goals don't make a lick of sense.

They may not make sense to you, but they do to me. If you factor in that the Reapers as a whole are flawed.

 

[Madkipz]

**Spoiler** discussion topic for the antagonist of ME3.

So, knowing now what the Reapers and Catalyst's goals were, do you agree with them? That's it's necessary to wipe out all advanced civilization every 50,000 years?

I don't care for the Reapers myself as their existence seems to be based on a fear, although, still I can understand their mission at least. Without them, who's to say another more powerful organic/inorganic race could take over and/or cause greater problems for everyone in the galaxy?

The choice is not theirs to make whether a generation of our species creates sentient machines that will wipe us out.

There is not enough information from the star-child to garner consensus on what option is correct but i would like to believe that it is destroy. Destroy is the only ending that wipes the slate clean for rebuilding purposes. Whatever bloody mess that comes out of it will surely be better than the other options. Because at least then life will have freedom.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

All of your questions are easily answerable and have been answered multiple times, but because the last one is easiest to explain I'll do that one:

The synthesis option isn't always available. It only comes with enough war assets and the Crucible.

Gotcha. The Space Magic that powers synthesis is only available if Shepard finds enough War Assets. You're right, that makes PERFECT sense now. Why couldn't I see it?

 

[Acton Hank]

What the game actually presented us as the Reapers' motivation was so lackluster and flat, that I don't even deem it worthy of discussing whether or not I agreed with it. It was fucking stupid, and it never should've been there in the first place.

If the explanation had been as simple as "we are the top of the food chain and we harvest organic civilizations to reproduce" that would have made sense, so why they decided to go in that direction is beyond my ability to comprehend.

They spent the first two games saying that the Reaper's goals are incomprehensible.

Most people can't comprehend the Reaper's goals. Bioware went meta.

No, I comprehend that the reaper's goals don't make a lick of sense.

They may not make sense to you, but they do to me. If you factor in that the Reapers as a whole are flawed.

Synthetics kill organics so some god child invented other synthetics to kill organics before organics invent synthetics that kill organics.
Very sensical and well thought out.

 

[Murmillos]

I agree with the Reapers, not that I like it (if I were in a race subjected to reaping) but I understand their logic. It is better to remove the few at the very top to ensure the rest have a chance to be at the top.

And this is not like this is the Reapers first go around, there is so much back history to the Reapers that is still unknown. We do not know if they ever tried to warn previous races that you should not create synthetics or bad things will happen. Races still create uncontrollable synthetics and the Reapers had to go ahead and reap anyways.

I do agree that learning about their motives, was about a dull as learning about Star Wars midichlorians, "Really? It boils down to THAT CRAP?!?!"

And personally, I loved the voice and attitude behind Sovereign. I found Harbinger to be just annoying, like a 14 year old kid on Xbox annoying - spouting the same 4 lines. Sovereign had depth.

But since we have learned about it. Yea, it makes sense; not that I have to like it.

 

[Nimcha]

All of your questions are easily answerable and have been answered multiple times, but because the last one is easiest to explain I'll do that one:

The synthesis option isn't always available. It only comes with enough war assets and the Crucible.

Gotcha. The Space Magic that powers synthesis is only available if Shepard finds enough War Assets. You're right, that makes PERFECT sense now. Why couldn't I see it?

Well, judging by this reaction you don't want to see it. That's fine, you know. It just means I won't have to bother trying to explain.

 

[survivor686]

They have a laudable goal: prevention of organic's destruction from synthetics.

Crappy execution: Harvest said organics, render them into "paste" and then place them into our machines of destruction and war. Rinse and repeat every 50,000 years.

Better plan of action: Demand that every robot, synthetic or AI have the three laws of robotics encoded within them (aka: Don't kill an organic either through action or inaction).

Personally I was enjoying the mysterious, Cthulesque horror of the Reapers, whose motivations were mysterious. Then the damned starchild showed up and ruined it.

 

[Nimcha]

What the game actually presented us as the Reapers' motivation was so lackluster and flat, that I don't even deem it worthy of discussing whether or not I agreed with it. It was fucking stupid, and it never should've been there in the first place.

If the explanation had been as simple as "we are the top of the food chain and we harvest organic civilizations to reproduce" that would have made sense, so why they decided to go in that direction is beyond my ability to comprehend.

They spent the first two games saying that the Reaper's goals are incomprehensible.

Most people can't comprehend the Reaper's goals. Bioware went meta.

No, I comprehend that the reaper's goals don't make a lick of sense.

They may not make sense to you, but they do to me. If you factor in that the Reapers as a whole are flawed.

Synthetics kill organics so some god child invented other synthetics to kill organics before organics invent synthetics that kill organics.
Very sensical and well thought out.

You already know it's not as simple as that. This thread has some good discussion about the Reapers motivation. It's more nuanced than that simple sentence. It just seems like you've already made up your mind.

 

[Acton Hank]

All of your questions are easily answerable and have been answered multiple times, but because the last one is easiest to explain I'll do that one:

The synthesis option isn't always available. It only comes with enough war assets and the Crucible.

Gotcha. The Space Magic that powers synthesis is only available if Shepard finds enough War Assets. You're right, that makes PERFECT sense now. Why couldn't I see it?

Well, judging by this reaction you don't want to see it. That's fine, you know. It just means I won't have to bother trying to explain.

Ah, "I won't bother trying to explain" the last refuge for someone with no answers and no compelling arguments.