ME3 ending standing up against bioware.

[FFHAuthor]

Books and movies require you to pay in order to have access to them, so unless I just don't get what you're trying to say, I don't see your point.

How much does a book cost? A ticket to see a movie? A DVD? Less than a new game, certainly. Not including DLC content which can drive the total cost of everything over a hundred dollars, and that's just in the US.

 

[romxxii]

i hear a a lot of i hate this ending because its not the normal sappy happy modern day fairy tale ending. you know fairy tales weren't always like the Disney remakes.

Hell no. I would've been satisfied if the game ended at Shepard dying to make the Crucible work, lying in a pool of his own blood, just a few feet away from a dead Anderson.

The game could've ended right there, and I would've said, "cool, that was...depressing but epic."

But no, they had to bring in the frickin' Starchild and give me his multiple stupid choices. Why couldn't I at least get a Renegade interrupt telling him "I united the Geth and the Quarians, shut up you stupid alien baby!"?

This is the real problem with the ending: none of your actions mattered, and not in a "resistance is futile" sort of way, but in the "stop having fun" way.

Give me a depressing ending, fine. but give me one that makes sense.

 

[Loop Stricken]

DO you not know what invalid means? Jesus christ-o-mundo. I'm starting to think I'm the smartest person in the fucking universe.

Well now, let's not go crazy. Pride goeth before a fall and all that.
And you could fall so very far.

 

[mirage202]

Wait, I don't get it, when exactly did physical ownership become an issue as regards to the ending?

It's not in regards to the ending, it's simply in regards to one of the things that the games industry demands of it's consumers that no other medium demands of it's consumers.

Books and movies require you to pay in order to have access to them, so unless I just don't get what you're trying to say, I don't see your point.

As off-topic as it is:

When you buy a book, you own that book.

When you buy a movie, you own that movie.

When you buy a game, you are "renting" a license that can be revoked at any time, with, or without warning. Have you never read a EULA?

That is what he meant by they expect more from us, as gaming consumers, and all things being equal, is what gives us the "right" to expect more from them.

On Topic: Complaining and bitching about people complaining and bitching, makes you (generalised, not specific) just as whiny and self-entitled. Amazing how that works, but it does.

 

[razer17]

Woooow. I just realized something.

Creative work

That you did not make.

You have no right to try to make Bioware change the ending of ME3, its a creative work that THEY worked hard on, you didn't do anything and raging about it on the internet is not going to change anything. Bioware said they won't change the ending I'm pretty sure as well, and starting a charity to CHANGE their mind? Thats a low blow. Hey we are donating for children if you don't change the ME3 ending you are against helping children is basically what is going on. If you buy a piece of art and don't like it, you don't go over to the artist and tell him to change it. They worked hard on it, so what gives you the right to spit in their face and tell them that they need to change the ending?

Note, I'm being realistic. Don't get upset and state your point validly. Otherwise don't post.

EDIT: The ending wasn't good, but I didn't think it was as bad as people are raving about, yeah it was copy pasted but the OVERALL ending wasn't bad at all, life sucks then you die. I knew something like that was going to happen.

This would be true if Bioware were making games for the sake of it. They aren't. They are making games to make money. If they don't please their consumers, then they don't make money, so they're doing it wrong.

People like Picasso and Van Gaugh were proper artists. They made art because they loved painting. Bioware are a giant corporation, and they need to make money to be viable.

Without us, their customers, they are nothing. They wouldn't be able to make a game. Therefore, if a large proportion of their potential customers dislikes what they are doing, they do need to change it, or at least learn their lessons for the next time.

 

[FFHAuthor]

Books and movies require you to pay in order to have access to them, so unless I just don't get what you're trying to say, I don't see your point.

How much does a book cost? A ticket to see a movie? A DVD? Less than a new game, certainly. Not including DLC content which can drive the total cost of everything over a hundred dollars, and that's just in the US.

Books also only take a few hours to read. Movies tend to take even less time. And none of them change whatsoever no matter how many times you read/watch them.

A new game provides 20-50 hours of entertainment in a single playthrough, and many games offer a wide variety of paths to take over the course of the experience, changing it nearly every time you play it. And games cost much more to make than books, and often as much as some major motion pictures.

An excellent point.

A game requires more investment on the part of the experiancer than any other form of entertainment. You can't simply hit start and let the game do everything for you like a movie, you have to interact with it, you need to drive it and utilize it, it isn't a passive experience.

We revive that greater degree of entertainment that 'replayability' in games...but we still need to invest more time in games than in movies. Don't get me wrong, I concede that games require as much time to create and as much money to create as a movie does, and we receive a longer 'time period' of entertainment than a movie, but there is a threshold for that 'new experience' replayability doesn't continue forever, and not every game provides 20-50 hours of entertainment, some can be as few as 10, some can only be played the same way every time without any variety.

 

[Varrdy]

Forbes actually has a pretty interesting article on that subject:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/12/how-bioware-could-find-redemption-using-mass-effect-3/

I have to say thank-you for posting this, it was a very interesting article. I can't see the proposed DLC happening but I am hoping for it with every fibre of my being, providing it gives closure - sure, Joker, Garrus and Liara were alive at the end [of my playthrough] but then what?

Wardy

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Customers have just as much of a right to complain as Bioware has to ignore them.

This, effectively. I did not like the ending. I would like them to change it. They are completely in their rights to ignore me, as I am completely in my rights to not buy their products because of this. This does not make me entitled, childish, or an attention whore. I do not insult people who liked the endings. I thank them for being civil (when they are), admit I respect their viewpoints, and point out why I disagree.

But then you have cock heads like Jim Sterling flame baiting and taking cheap shots. Respect goes both ways. I'm constantly on the defensive because i'm constantly under attack, and if I try to retaliate i'm the asshole. This charity was started to give the howling internet monkey people a positive direction to drive their force to. It was not to gain unfair or good PR, or to deflect criticism. Someone said, "We have a whole bunch of people here, why not do something useful for the world with them?" And that was that. Bioware even matched their donation to the charity - it jumped from 10k to 20k in a few mins, so either some godly individual out there donated 10k or Bioware came through.

Woooow. I just realized something.

Creative work

That you did not make.

You have no right to try to make Bioware change the ending of ME3, its a creative work that THEY worked hard on, you didn't do anything and raging about it on the internet is not going to change anything. Bioware said they won't change the ending I'm pretty sure as well, and starting a charity to CHANGE their mind? Thats a low blow. Hey we are donating for children if you don't change the ME3 ending you are against helping children is basically what is going on. If you buy a piece of art and don't like it, you don't go over to the artist and tell him to change it. They worked hard on it, so what gives you the right to spit in their face and tell them that they need to change the ending?

Note, I'm being realistic. Don't get upset and state your point validly. Otherwise don't post.

EDIT: The ending wasn't good, but I didn't think it was as bad as people are raving about, yeah it was copy pasted but the OVERALL ending wasn't bad at all, life sucks then you die. I knew something like that was going to happen.

This would be true if Bioware were making games for the sake of it. They aren't. They are making games to make money. If they don't please their consumers, then they don't make money, so they're doing it wrong.

People like Picasso and Van Gaugh were proper artists. They made art because they loved painting. Bioware are a giant corporation, and they need to make money to be viable.

Without us, their customers, they are nothing. They wouldn't be able to make a game. Therefore, if a large proportion of their potential customers dislikes what they are doing, they do need to change it, or at least learn their lessons for the next time.

Hell, Da Vinci was a proper artist, but he still painted what the hell his patrons wanted him to paint.

 

[Varrdy]

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/

This article perfectly sums up why fans of the series are right to be so miffed at the "ending" of ME3. It's well-written and makes excellent points without making it feel like a witch-hunt.

Wardy

 

[Bradeck]

I like the way you reframed my points. Your arguments make a lot of sense. My only comment would be the end, where you say you do buy sight unseen. Have you ever walked into a book store, stared at the floor, walked up to a random book shelf, picked a book at random, and bought it? I don't believe you if you say yes. Because we process a great deal of info before we purchase that book. For me at least, I look at the cover, the description on the back, the reviews, the first few pages where comparable authors have written what they think, etc. There is also book review sites and the store likely has info graphics as well, showing the book for sale, and about it. The news may talk about it. It might be featured in a magazine we read, or on a website we frequent. You may think you purchase sight unseen, but we rarely if ever make 100% uninformed choices before purchasing.

But, in the end, no matter what prior preparation and research you make before the purchase, you're not buying "a good book", you're buying "the promise of a good book". And the reading of the book itself is a subjective experience; what one person may find compelling and fulfilling, another might find trite and cliche. When you reach the end of the book, it's up to you to decide how you feel about the book. Maybe you liked it, maybe you didn't, but that's the risk you decided to take when you bought it.

Good point, and I agree. I can't (because it's 9:48PM and I'm too tired after the Business Expo) show that EA promised me a clear cut perfect ending. They didn't. However, I think my book analogy fails to take the issue that a book can only have one ending (Unless you're reading the "choose your own adventure books from the 80's). A video game can, and most today do, have multiple endings. You can say that Bioware COULD have included multiple different endings, instead of three variants of the exact same ending. I think that falls under the "poor writing" argument. (Apologize for poor writing here, very tired)

In the end, Bioware had one single ending in mind, and chose to create three aesthetically different versions. I think if they had fleshed out each to some degree, we would not be seeing the level of vitriol that we currently are.

 

[Threeseventyfive]

Yeah! How dare us consumers voice our opinions! God forbid we try to improve anything!

 

[GonzoGamer]

Yeah! How dare us consumers voice our opinions! God forbid we try to improve anything!

Now I have to admit that I never even finished ME1 so I don't have much of a place weighing in here but it seems like the consumers should voice their opinion so that other devs don't end their games similarly.
However, unless the game doesn't actually have a real ending (like they obviously want to sell you the real ending as dlc; and I wouldn't be surprised) I don't see how you can demand a new one...well, there's always dlc.
However if the game really is an unfinished product, I do sympathize. But if it's just a disappointing ending story wise, that happens sometimes.
I still like Dark City even though I didn't like the ending.

 

[Francis Budden-Hinds]

You have no right to try to make Bioware change the ending of ME3, its a creative work that THEY worked hard on...

No.

That's not how this works at all.

Nobody is sending commandos around to bioware's building to kidnap them and force them at gunpoint to redo the ending of ME3. Nobody is lobbying governments to pass laws which force them to rewrite the ending of mass effect. Nobody is starting class action lawsuits to force them to change the end of mass effect.

No creative freedoms were harmed here. All people are doing is using the normal tools of a consumer to attempt to cause Bioware to pull their head out of their asses and change this god insulting half assed ending into something decent.

How entitled has the game industry and game press got that they cannot even take people asking them to do things? Writing bad reviews, complaining about stuff, not buying DLC, whatever people decided to do on this, those are legitimate tools of the consumer. If a consumer is angry, then they should potentially do all those things.

Bioware is totally free to keep it's amazing technicolour ending. Mass Effect's fans are equally free to Amazon bomb, not buy DLC, and complain to Bioware about their amazing techicolour ending.

That's how it works.

 

[Adultism]

You have no right to try to make Bioware change the ending of ME3, its a creative work that THEY worked hard on...

No.

That's not how this works at all.

Nobody is sending commandos around to bioware's building to kidnap them and force them at gunpoint to redo the ending of ME3. Nobody is lobbying governments to pass laws which force them to rewrite the ending of mass effect. Nobody is starting class action lawsuits to force them to change the end of mass effect.

No creative freedoms were harmed here. All people are doing is using the normal tools of a consumer to attempt to cause Bioware to pull their head out of their asses and change this god insulting half assed ending into something decent.

How entitled has the game industry and game press got that they cannot even take people asking them to do things? Writing bad reviews, complaining about stuff, not buying DLC, whatever people decided to do on this, those are legitimate tools of the consumer. If a consumer is angry, then they should potentially do all those things.

Bioware is totally free to keep it's amazing technicolour ending. Mass Effect's fans are equally free to Amazon bomb, not buy DLC, and complain to Bioware about their amazing techicolour ending.

That's how it works.

Sounds immature to me. Its creative work. You bought the right to play it. You don't own the game.

 

[AD-Stu]

That said, in all honesty? It wouldn't surprise me if Bioware considered the "canon" ending to be Synthesis, as in the final conversation with Saren at the end of the first game, he talks about half-Organic, half-Synthetic beings as the next step in evolution..

Yeah, but he was indoctrinated and we killed him for trying to make that come to pass

 

[Francis Budden-Hinds]

Sounds immature to me. Its creative work. You bought the right to play it. You don't own the game.

Sounds like you don't understand what I just said.

No, we don't "own" the game, just you know, fund it, and supply the only reason for it's existence. Bioware has absolutely no obligation to change things just because everyone thinks they made an ending which is utterly retarded.

But, people have no obligation not to complain about it, or to continue to support bioware with positive reviews or DLC purchases or whatever else. It's completely legitimate to attack Bioware over it. To complain that people have to like it is the most rank form of industry entitlement.

The very last image of the game is "buy our DLC." So, amazingly people want particular DLC to fix a problem with the game.