ME3 ending standing up against bioware.

[Mirrorknight]

So, you change the thread title to something misleading, take out your entire argument about how we can't complain about the ME3 ending because it's BioWare's creative work and Child's play thing and replace it with petty name-calling (probably because you didn't have a leg to stand on)?

And we're the immature ones?

Yeah, ok.

 

[Kashrlyyk]

Mass Effect 3: Final Hours:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1

'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

It's deliberately vague.

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

It's deliberately vague.

And extremely poorly executed.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

snip

You deserve several internets good sir.

But then you have cock heads like Jim Sterling flame baiting and taking cheap shots.

Glad I'm not the only one who was bothered by that. He hates EA and day 1 DLC, it was confusing to see him acting like that. I think he's just sick of hearing about it, but still odd.

 

[tzimize]

When I buy a video game I am buying a product that has been developed and published by large teams across multiple companies. It is marketed and sold to me as a consumer product, as such I am allowed to share my the issues I encounter with the product and inform those around me, as well as the company(s) who sold it to me. Game developers hire artists to contribute to the project and, in my opinion, video games can be considered a form of art. They are not however sold as art and consumers should not treat them as art when voicing their issues regarding it (when discussing it as a consumer product). There is no way to know if this was actually the ending that the writers intended/wanted for the franchise. There could have been a crunch, they could have run out of time, whatever it was the fact of that matter is: the executives and publishers call the shots. They want a functioning product out and are willing to release it to the market in an incomplete state.

You can look at this situation as people asking an author to change his story if you want. Though, in this industry it is far more complicated than that. In the end the companies want as much feedback as they can get to maximize profits in the future.

Also, its important to remember: the ME franchise was built on the premise of player choice and importance. This notion was betrayed in the end and doesn't deliver what was promised. Customers have just as much of a right to complain as Bioware has to ignore them.

10/10 Post. Here, have a saucer of milk. You've deserved it! \______/

OT: I'm with kitty! I mean Fappy!

 

[romxxii]

Mass Effect 3: Final Hours:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1

'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

It's deliberately vague.

There's a difference between vague ("did that really happen? We'll never know.") and plot hole ("wait, that couldn't possibly happen, because prior to that, he was doing something else entirely.")

I really hate how some people are excusing the terrible writing with "it's meant to be that way."

The ending ain't no Inception, people. Hell, if it's ripping off anything, it's the two shitty Matrix sequels. Think about it; Shepard is:

* A Messiah figure
* Who goes into the machine realm, where he is confronted by an enigmatic figure
* Who tells him that this cycle has been happening over and over again for countless eons
* And that the machines are doing this for humanity's sake; whereupon
* Shepard sacrifices himself to destroy the machines, or make them retreat
* and his comrades come out of the rubble to a possibly brand new day

Honestly, I just wish they could've ripped off a far better story than the effin' Matrix sequels.

 

[romxxii]

I'm going to go ahead and say this.

While I think ranting and raving about an ending that you can not do anything about is very immature in certain ways.

You guys have the right to say whatever you want, that is free speech,

It is however very immature to use a charity as a front to try to get them to change the ending.

Thats all I have to say on the subject

Personally, I think it's a very mature way of handling it. The Retake movement could've just placed an order under Casey Hudson's name for a thousand pizzas, or they could've done the Anonymous thing and carpet-bombed Bioware's websites with DDoS attacks.

Contributing to a charity to give their petition emphasis? Very mature and civil.

 

[Adultism]

I'm going to go ahead and say this.

While I think ranting and raving about an ending that you can not do anything about is very immature in certain ways.

You guys have the right to say whatever you want, that is free speech,

It is however very immature to use a charity as a front to try to get them to change the ending.

Thats all I have to say on the subject

Personally, I think it's a very mature way of handling it. The Retake movement could've just placed an order under Casey Hudson's name for a thousand pizzas, or they could've done the Anonymous thing and carpet-bombed Bioware's websites with DDoS attacks.

Contributing to a charity to give their petition emphasis? Very mature and civil.

You are comparing it to DDOS attacks.

I think there is a phrase for this. Comparing something insignificant and immature to hacking.

 

[romxxii]

I'm going to go ahead and say this.

While I think ranting and raving about an ending that you can not do anything about is very immature in certain ways.

You guys have the right to say whatever you want, that is free speech,

It is however very immature to use a charity as a front to try to get them to change the ending.

Thats all I have to say on the subject

Personally, I think it's a very mature way of handling it. The Retake movement could've just placed an order under Casey Hudson's name for a thousand pizzas, or they could've done the Anonymous thing and carpet-bombed Bioware's websites with DDoS attacks.

Contributing to a charity to give their petition emphasis? Very mature and civil.

You are comparing it to DDOS attacks.

I think there is a phrase for this. Comparing something insignificant and immature to hacking.

You know, in the grown up world, charities and petitions are some of the most civil and mature ways of dealing with an issue.

Oh, and if you think denying access to a corporation's website because you didn't like their content isn't immature, well that says a lot, really.

 

[Adultism]

I'm going to go ahead and say this.

While I think ranting and raving about an ending that you can not do anything about is very immature in certain ways.

You guys have the right to say whatever you want, that is free speech,

It is however very immature to use a charity as a front to try to get them to change the ending.

Thats all I have to say on the subject

Personally, I think it's a very mature way of handling it. The Retake movement could've just placed an order under Casey Hudson's name for a thousand pizzas, or they could've done the Anonymous thing and carpet-bombed Bioware's websites with DDoS attacks.

Contributing to a charity to give their petition emphasis? Very mature and civil.

You are comparing it to DDOS attacks.

I think there is a phrase for this. Comparing something insignificant and immature to hacking.

You know, in the grown up world, charities and petitions are some of the most civil and mature ways of dealing with an issue.

Oh, and if you think denying access to a corporation's website because you didn't like their content isn't immature, well that says a lot, really.

Think before you write. I never said that. But I won't explain it to you because you probably would not understand it.

 

[romxxii]

I'm going to go ahead and say this.

While I think ranting and raving about an ending that you can not do anything about is very immature in certain ways.

You guys have the right to say whatever you want, that is free speech,

It is however very immature to use a charity as a front to try to get them to change the ending.

Thats all I have to say on the subject

Personally, I think it's a very mature way of handling it. The Retake movement could've just placed an order under Casey Hudson's name for a thousand pizzas, or they could've done the Anonymous thing and carpet-bombed Bioware's websites with DDoS attacks.

Contributing to a charity to give their petition emphasis? Very mature and civil.

You are comparing it to DDOS attacks.

I think there is a phrase for this. Comparing something insignificant and immature to hacking.

You know, in the grown up world, charities and petitions are some of the most civil and mature ways of dealing with an issue.

Oh, and if you think denying access to a corporation's website because you didn't like their content isn't immature, well that says a lot, really.

Think before you write. I never said that. But I won't explain it to you because you probably would not understand it.

Wow, we've come to that, eh? Usually, people who pull out the "I won't explain because you wouldn't understand it" card are people who don't want to back down from their side, even though they can no longer legitimately defend it.

By all means, explain how supporting a charity is immature. Explain how a civil protest is immature. Explain how publicly expressing dissatisfaction with a consumer product is considered immature.

 

[spectrenihlus]

I'm going to go ahead and say this.

While I think ranting and raving about an ending that you can not do anything about is very immature in certain ways.

You guys have the right to say whatever you want, that is free speech,

It is however very immature to use a charity as a front to try to get them to change the ending.

Thats all I have to say on the subject

Personally, I think it's a very mature way of handling it. The Retake movement could've just placed an order under Casey Hudson's name for a thousand pizzas, or they could've done the Anonymous thing and carpet-bombed Bioware's websites with DDoS attacks.

Contributing to a charity to give their petition emphasis? Very mature and civil.

You are comparing it to DDOS attacks.

I think there is a phrase for this. Comparing something insignificant and immature to hacking.

You know, in the grown up world, charities and petitions are some of the most civil and mature ways of dealing with an issue.

Oh, and if you think denying access to a corporation's website because you didn't like their content isn't immature, well that says a lot, really.

Think before you write. I never said that. But I won't explain it to you because you probably would not understand it.

Wow, we've come to that, eh? Usually, people who pull out the "I won't explain because you wouldn't understand it" card are people who don't want to back down from their side, even though they can no longer legitimately defend it.

By all means, explain how supporting a charity is immature. Explain how a civil protest is immature. Explain how publicly expressing dissatisfaction with a consumer product is considered immature.

"Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding."

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

You have no right to try to make Bioware change the ending of ME3, its a creative work that THEY worked hard on...

No.

That's not how this works at all.

Nobody is sending commandos around to bioware's building to kidnap them and force them at gunpoint to redo the ending of ME3. Nobody is lobbying governments to pass laws which force them to rewrite the ending of mass effect. Nobody is starting class action lawsuits to force them to change the end of mass effect.

No creative freedoms were harmed here. All people are doing is using the normal tools of a consumer to attempt to cause Bioware to pull their head out of their asses and change this god insulting half assed ending into something decent.

How entitled has the game industry and game press got that they cannot even take people asking them to do things? Writing bad reviews, complaining about stuff, not buying DLC, whatever people decided to do on this, those are legitimate tools of the consumer. If a consumer is angry, then they should potentially do all those things.

Bioware is totally free to keep it's amazing technicolour ending. Mass Effect's fans are equally free to Amazon bomb, not buy DLC, and complain to Bioware about their amazing techicolour ending.

That's how it works.

Sounds immature to me. Its creative work. You bought the right to play it. You don't own the game.

Heaven forbid I voice my dissatisfaction with a product that I payed for.

 

[Outcast107]

Well what makes an ending invalid are stupid plotholes and silly deus machina bullshit.

...What?

Are we just making up rules, all of the sudden? An ending is what it is, if the developers forgot to make an ending, like literally ran out of money at the last minute and all of the sudden your screen just cuts to black in the middle of a fight, then yeah. They would not have an ending.

However, opinions =/= facts, meaning that the ending to Mass Effect 3 IS A FUCKING ENDING AND OH MY GOD I CANNOT BELIEVE I HAVE TO TELL YOU PEOPLE THIS. FUCK.

[HEADING=1]WHY DOES THE VIDEO-GAME COMMUNITY HAVE TO STOOP TO SUCH INTELLECTUAL LOWS? WHY CANNOT WE APPROACH THIS MEDIUM WITH THE SAME MATURITY AS WE APPROACH LITERATURE OR FILM?[/HEADING]

Because were gamers. We can't act mature for the life of us but demand that everyone take us as it. I don't like the ending as much as the next guy but why cry and whine about it non-stop? Why can't we just act mature and say "We didn't like this ending, add on to it to make it better" or something beside acting like the whole damn world is ending.

Blah, this is why we gamers will never be taken mature. Because we can't handle bad things at all.

Edit: Am I the only one who thinks this whole shitstorm is going to effect gaming in a negative way? Sure the fans may win and get a new ending but what happens then? Perhaps I'm just thinking poorly but I just think this will hurt us in the end then help us. We do have a right to complain and voice our opinions but how it is going I don't believe the developers will treat us the same any more.

 

[AD-Stu]

Sounds immature to me. Its creative work. You bought the right to play it. You don't own the game.

See, in an ordinary case I'd agree with you. But there's an important point I've raised a few times now, and everybody seems to be ignoring it. It's this:

Bioware actively encourages this type of behaviour.

There's quotes getting around from Casey Hudson basically saying that fans were the "co-writers" of this series. When bits of the ME3 script were leaked and there was an uproar from the fans about its content, Bioware apparently went back and reworked it. When fans didn't like stuff in previous games (the Mako, having to go all Paragon/all Renegade) Bioware listened, made a big deal about listening, and made changes.

Hell, they even agreed to edit and then reissue the latest hard-copy novel after fans took issue with the mistakes in it. They could have done anything from ignore the feedback to declare it non-canon to say "just get over it" but they didn't.

When it's worked in the past, is it really surprising that fans are doing it again?

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Customers have just as much of a right to complain as Bioware has to ignore them.

Statement = Truth.

We can demand whatever we want. Bioware can IGNORE whatever they want. MARKET FORCES will determine if this is a bad idea. If you don't want us (yes, us, I support Take Back Mass Effect) to change Mass Effect, then buy Biowares products and support Bioware against the movement. If you DO want to change Mass Effect, do the OPPOSITE - do not buy Bioware products, voice your complaints in a CIVIL AND INTELLIGENT MANNER, and at the end of the day if the money is there? They'll do whatever or die. That's how Capitalism works. That's how "art" works if the artist wants to turn a profit. If the artist doesn't want to or doesn't care if they turn a profit? They can do whatever they want, F Da Man.

I will articulate a megapost later, but for now:

http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/top-10-reasons-we-hate-mass-effect-3s-ending/

 

[romxxii]

snip

"Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding."

So you're saying the OP is an amoral, eldritch space Cthulhu that has a penchant for melting down sapient races into biomechanical space Cthulhu babies?

Explains a lot, really.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

So you thought the ending was fine. Good for you. Lots of people didn't. Their opinion is no less wrong then yours.

As far as the Child's Play thing goes. Hey, guess what? No one's holding a gun to your head and telling you have to donate. If you disagree, then don't donate. What? You feel guilty because of the children that aren't getting money because you like (or tolerate) the ending? Well, fortunately, you can donate money directly to Child's Play through their official website!
Guilt averted! Children helped! No need to support the "change the ending" drive!

...but I get the feeling you'd rather just sooner keep your money.

As far as "you can't criticize this! It's someone's creative work!". Bull. People make a living criticizing people's work. This very website does it on a daily basis. Now with something like a book or painting, there's nothing you can really do, except apologize that you felt it didn't live up to their expectations, learn the lesson for your next series, and tell your supporters you're doing so, so hopefully they'll decide to stick with you. However, this is a video game in the 2010's, that have the ability to be altered through the internet. Hell, BioWare charged for this extra "DownLoadable Content" on the first day. By all appearances, it would seem that having an alternate ending DLC would be pretty popular. They probably could even charge for it. Hell, some people said they'd pay for it. Now, some have said that would piss them off more. Bet you that they'll buy it anyway. If it delivers, they'll probably even forgive them for it.

Besides, movies have done alternate endings for YEARS. I mean, hell. They completely re-edited Highlander 2 into a "Renegade Version" that removed all references to stupid aliens, purely due to fan "bitching". I Am Legend added an alternate ending to the DVD when the producers and writers were stupid and put in an ending that was not only a huge departure from the book, but made absolutely no sense, all due to people complaining. Just a couple of examples.

Want an example outside of movies. Hal Fricking Jordan. Go watch the Big Picture and listen to Bob's history lesson about the Green Lantern comic. Not only was the character brought back to life, but was absolved of all the atrocities he committed. This was done by a HUGE fanbase drive to do so. And one writer finally listened. As Garrus said in Mass Effect 3, sometimes to get people to act, you've got to kick and scream until you get their attention.

The thing is, we're not talking about "Some game that came out". If this was the original Mass Effect, people would have just shrugged their shoulders, not supported it, and the series would have died a quiet death. This is a series of games that people have become invested in for the last five years. Have developed emotional connections to the characters with. Wanted to know more about the universe it took place in. It was their passion for the series and their support that saw the sequels made, and all these people wanted was an ending that felt complete and was dependent of their actions as BioWare had promised MANY times, or at the very least, would make sense!

But it is not out of hatred of BioWare that people are complaining (for the most part. It's not that they hate the game. On the contrary, its because of the sheer love for series for the reasons mentioned above. It could have been the Star Wars of this generation. Even more so. I mean, in Star Wars, you just got to watch Luke deal with situations he's dealt. In Mass Effect, you didn't just get attached to the character, you were the character. You got to make the decisions, whether for good, or for ill. And to have all the choices you made, all the benefits they gave, all the consequences you had to endure because of them, to have all that (to many people) taken away and made irrelevant in the last five minutes of an otherwise exceptional series, it should be understandable why people could be that upset.

"It's just a game!" I can hear. Why cry over a piece of music? It's just music. Why be excited when a kid wizard in a book gets the best of his nemesis? It's just a book. Why get upset when the villain in the TV series unexpectedly gets the upper hand of the hero? It's just a TV show. Why be passionate about any form of medium? Should just devour it unemotionally, no matter how trite it is. Should we not demand better?

I'm not trying to convince you that the ending is bad. If you find it tolerable, again, good for you. However, for people to dismiss the ones that feel that the ending did not live up to the series they are passionate about as bitching, or even self-entitled, I find these people at best, self-entitled themselves, and at worst, hypocritical.

This has gone far beyond tl;dr. That's my two cents. Take it or don't. I don't give a damn if you didn't ask for it.

Two cents eh. I'd say more like five bucks.

Very well done.

The main problem I think most people have with the ending (besides the whole no epilogue thing) is that Mass Effects big story mechanic was having the players choices shape the ending. I mean if you want to get very technical ME2 kinda only had one ending. You and your team go fight the Collecters. That really can't not happen, but depending on what choices you made throughout the game (and the game before it) you changed how it would all unfold. Will all the team make it? Will you save the crew? You get the point.

From what everyone has been saying it kind of sounds like there is this one choice at the end of three that decides what goes down and how, no matter what you did before. I haven't yet gotten to ME3's end so I can't say if I like the ending that was picked for us or not, but if we really didn't have a choice on how the end plays out then that kinda makes all the choice we were given before pointless. And that I don't like.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Two cents eh. I'd say more like five bucks.

Very well done.

The main problem I think most people have with the ending (besides the whole no epilogue thing) is that Mass Effects big story mechanic was having the players choices shape the ending. I mean if you want to get very technical ME2 kinda only had one ending. You and your team go fight the Collecters. That really can't not happen, but depending on what choices you made throughout the game (and the game before it) you changed how it would all unfold. Will all the team make it? Will you save the crew? You get the point.

From what everyone has been saying it kind of sounds like there is this one choice at the end of three that decides what goes down and how, no matter what you did before. I haven't yet gotten to ME3's end so I can't say if I like the ending that was picked for us or not, but if we really didn't have a choice on how the end plays out then that kinda makes all the choice we were given before pointless. And that I don't like.

The entire third game was the ending, and you see the consequences of your choices from the first two games play out in it.

What most people fail to realize I that the "ending" of a story is not the last 5-10 minutes of a game or movie, nor is it the last chapter in a book, it is the entire last act.

Mass Effect 3 showed you the consequences of your action in the ending because the entire game was the ending.

 

[DarksideFlame]

People are entitled to have an opinion about things they have legally bought. Some liked the ending, some disliked it and other thought it was utter shit and that's fine because that's your opinion and while some people may not agree with you that does not make them or you more right than you about things like the ending to a game or movie

My problem is how some people decided to make their voice heard by insulting Bioware using all caps rage, send hate-mail or threats demanding a new ending

Btw, I haven't finished ME3 so I don't have a personal opinion about the ending yet but considering how much people raged and said that ME3 would be the worst game ever because Jessica Chobot was going to be a voice-actor or the fact that people are ready to throw shit at Bioware for the tiny things then a part of me wonders if the people complaining aren't just overreacting

Keep in mind that I haven't finished the game yet this is just what I think about the matter at time of writing but so far I think ME3 is absolutely brilliant