No he says the cycle is broken, not that he was wrong back when it wasn't broken.Kingjackl said:
ME3 - You can't debate Star Child because you have a valid logical point.
- Thread starter Paragon Fury
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Obviously they used a child to get a reaction out of all the fans of child-killing mods, who were guaranteed to be ticked off 
he came up with a complex equation, about a game of course but it's still mathematics he's practicing on.I-Protest-I said:
Actually, what the star child says is technically, and demonstrably correct. The argument that when organics create synthetics, synthetics will destroy organics is true because organics created the reapers (a synthetics race) who destroy organics. They fulfill their own prophecy through the nature of their existence. To put it in your math terms, the formula can only ne C>D
(please don't take this as a defence of the ending, i thought it was a complete wankstain on the series)
(please don't take this as a defence of the ending, i thought it was a complete wankstain on the series)
I was talking with some friends about this kind of illogical reasoning and some tried to argue that in some instances the Starchild is right, specifically if your Shepard failed to unite the Quarians and Geth.
I pointed out that it doesn't make sense in any case:
Either you:
-United the Geth and Quarians: Proving they can work together and coexistance without destruction is possible (if still wrought with uncertainty)
-Supported the Geth, and the Quarians died: The Geth still ally themselves with you (a organic) to fight the Reapers.
-Destroy the Geth and support the Quarians: In which case you demonstrate that you (as an organic) can handle the threat of synthetics on your own. You don't need the "help" from the Reapers to deal with them.
In each case you should be able to tell the Star-Child to shove it. Taking away any ability to ask questions and argue with the Star-Child was either a deliberate attempt to show Shepard was in a altered state (i.e: indoctrinated dream-state) or sheer laziness and averision on behalf of the writer.
I pointed out that it doesn't make sense in any case:
Either you:
-United the Geth and Quarians: Proving they can work together and coexistance without destruction is possible (if still wrought with uncertainty)
-Supported the Geth, and the Quarians died: The Geth still ally themselves with you (a organic) to fight the Reapers.
-Destroy the Geth and support the Quarians: In which case you demonstrate that you (as an organic) can handle the threat of synthetics on your own. You don't need the "help" from the Reapers to deal with them.
In each case you should be able to tell the Star-Child to shove it. Taking away any ability to ask questions and argue with the Star-Child was either a deliberate attempt to show Shepard was in a altered state (i.e: indoctrinated dream-state) or sheer laziness and averision on behalf of the writer.
It isn't stated who created the Reapers so they aren't necessarily of organic creation. Well, actually, I believe starchild said he created them, but he's synthetic too. Which really leads back to the same conclusion - starchild isn't necessarily of organic creation.EMFCRACKSHOT said:
Also it's clearly untrue because they are beaten hence synthetics will not always destroy organics.
Not to nitpick, but there was evidence of that everywhere in the ME universe right up until Shepard started doing impossible things like forging peace with synthetics. It was that way when the Reapers were forged, presumably it had been that way in every cycle since, it was certainly that way in this cycle because AI research was universally outlawed, that's why when you try to make nice to the renegade slot machine hyjacker in ME1 whoever is in your squad with you says 'ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?! IT'S A DAMNED AI, KILL IT WITH FIRE BEFORE IT KILLS US!' and the dialog wheel says 'Yeah, they're right, no more make nice options, just kill it you pussy.'Paragon Fury said:
You are of course correct, the fact that you have new, undeniable evidence that synthetics and organics can live in harmony (and all it took was one nice person who listens to other people's problems to shatter a timeless ironclad universal truth, see, Mom was right all along!) and all of your options are to completely re-define the impossible balance you've just forged is beyond asinine:
Congratulations you've made peace between synthetics and organics, now all the synthetics you made peace with are murdered; I hope things work out when you write up a new batch and they find out you murdered all of their predecessors.
Congratulations you've made peace between synthetics and organics, now lets just make you slavemaster over all synthetics; you can pick and choose favorites and lets just hope they never figure out any way to avoid your control because hoo Nelly will they be even more pissed at organics if they do.
Congratulations you've made peace between synthetics and organics, now why don't you simultaneously change everything everywhere at a molecular level and hope everything shakes out well since it's all going to be the same and no new universe shattering paradoxes get created.
this is exactly what I thought, and as the arbiter of all things cool I hereby declair that you have won the internet.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
The problem with this is that you equate a one time occurrence with a universal truth. If I fire a gun at a target and hit it, does that mean that the gun will always hit the target? If I crash my car does that mean all cars will crash? The basis that synthetics have been created to destroy organics does not price that organics will inevitably create synthetics or that those synthetics will inevitably wipe out organic life it really does not hold up after the peace between the geth and the quarians or after ede provided help risking her own life to protect organics from the reapers, despite essentially being one at her core.EMFCRACKSHOT said:
One thing i can't understand is that the cycle was already broken by the Protheans.
Javik relates the story of the Geth equivalent of his cycle and how they were destroyed utterly, then the Reapers showed up.
Surely, that means more proof to the fact that Organics can handle Synthetic rebellions on their own.
Plus, if Synthetics always destroy Organics, where are the insanely advanced non-Reaper Synthetic empires? Surely immortal machines would have ended up ruling the galaxy for the past 50,000 years, rendering the Reapers useless yet again?
Just idle thoughts, haven't researched these at all so i may still be wrong.
Javik relates the story of the Geth equivalent of his cycle and how they were destroyed utterly, then the Reapers showed up.
Surely, that means more proof to the fact that Organics can handle Synthetic rebellions on their own.
Plus, if Synthetics always destroy Organics, where are the insanely advanced non-Reaper Synthetic empires? Surely immortal machines would have ended up ruling the galaxy for the past 50,000 years, rendering the Reapers useless yet again?
Just idle thoughts, haven't researched these at all so i may still be wrong.
I totally agree it would be incredibly hard to convince the Star-Child to change it's mind (although, in the context of a video game, perhaps it should be at least possible). The issue here is that Shepard accepts the Star-Child's logic without question, without even alarm or surprise. The Star-Child gets to spew and "support" it's logic, while Shepard stands there slack jawed and nodding.Buretsu said:
For me the issue is not so much if the Star-Child accepts its arguments, it is Shepard (the former player) who doesn't even get the chance to ask the Star-Child to clairify its points.
The fact that snthetic life has destroyed most organic life in the galaxy is not a one time occurence. How many cycles have there been? Lots. And if you got the prothean dlc, it happened to them. They created synthetics that turned against them.BRex21 said:
Like i said, self fullfilling prophecy. Organics will always create synthetics, and as long as the reapers are around, synthetics will always kill organics. Using machine logic-organics created us->we are synthetics->we destroyed our creators-> therefore synthetics will alwas kill organics.
Also, just because the geth and the quarians managed to square things away for now, whose to say that some other bonehead race (probably us) won't make a race of sentient machines that wipe out the galaxy. This, using reaper logic, is the most probable outcome.
In the reapers exprience synthetics will always kill organics. This, for the reapers is always true, as they (synthetics) have killed every organic race they have discovered.
Really? I mean lots of people seem to want him to look like this too. But for me what I envisioned was this: This is a being that created the reapers, which look very arbitrary in and of themselves. So I figured that this thing should look like some white angelic looking reaper creature if you can envision something like that.SajuukKhar said:
Though, if your definition of "accident" is "synthetic life forms committing mass genocide against organics" and you don't reset the counter at that part where the synthetics you created commit mass genocide against organics, then someone in Quality Control might want to have a word with ya.Buretsu said: