Megaman Legends 3 cancelled and fans act like ninnes.

[Ramzal]

Right fast, let me get my point across. I am not broken up that Megaman Legends 3 got cancelled. I'm actually happy about it. Why? Because Megaman does not carry the same weight as it once did.

I'm sure some have heard that after ten or tweleve odd years, Megaman Legends was getting a sequel and also heard that it was cancelled recently. And needless to say, Megaman fans acted like five year old children who were just told that they could not have a cookie before dinner, fell to the floor to pound and scream until they get what they want.

Last night, I was watching the Capcom stream for Marvel vs Capcom 3 and thought to take part in the chat for what I thought could be some good conversation about what we were seeing. Boy was I wrong. There were fans of this series putting things up like "Bring back Legends 3!!! Please!!!" and "Death to CRAPCOM! Death to everyone who works there!!!" every minute. What with politicians, reporters, and no longer important (If ever important) lawyers saying that we are a mindless, brooding, violent group, do we really need other gamers acting like this?

I'm not fully sure if I'm on the money here, but I am fully aware that game development is a business. A harsh business at that. You'd better hope that your game sells a good amount of copies or else you've just thrown a large amount of money into a lava pit, with lava sharks that sustain themselves on nothing but wasted currency from the game industry, and 50 Cent games. And when you lose money something has to happen to balance it out. And I cannot help but think lay-offs is one of those things that happen.

Needless to say, if I am wrong about that then correct me. However, I do not think it is fair for the chance of people losing their jobs just so a small few of people can play with the Blue Bomber again in a series that was, for the most part, not widely accepted as good. I thought about writing to Extra Credits on their thought on the subject and professional opinion on it, but they have more than enough topics, emails, and suggestions to go through so I don't feel right bothering them.

Anyways? What do you guys make of this? The game being cancelled, fans acting like spoiled children, the position Capcom is in to HAVE to cancel games or for that matter, how little marketing weight Megaman is starting to carry now.

 

[AyreonMaiden]

What I make of it is what I make of people wanting Shenmue 3 after all these years, the people who hated Duke Nukem Forever, and the people who ripped on Twilight Princess being "Ocarina of Time 2" after they said they wanted a more OoT styled game:

What you think you want, what you think you'll get, and what you actually get? Three entirely different things.

I'm not even close to sad about MML3 because I'm not a Mega Man fan, but I can see it in my mind and as someone who cares about labors of love and love letters to fans, I'm happy it'sn ot coming out. The game was gonna fucking suffer at the hands of its "fans" because Mega Man is "that" kind of franchise. Like Zelda or Sonic, their fans' nostalgia is so much more powerful than they know, and then when it's NOT exactly like it "used to be in their childhood" they ***** and rip and hate and make it known to me that it's never EVER worth reviving anything that's been in cryosleep for 6+ years these days. You won't win with the people who weren't fans in the first place if you keep it outdated, and you won't win with the hardcore fanboys because it's too new for their manboy memories and of course, their childhoods are so fragile that they'd let one different game ruin it all.

As a newly minted Shenmue fan, I never wanna see Shenmue 3 as a game. I never wanna see another Duke Nukem, and I never wanna see another attempt at 2D Sonic. No one can ever be pleased with that level of hype. Mega Man Legends 3 was fucked from the beginning, in my opinion. No, I have no faith in hardcore gamers. Fuck nostalgia. Vidya.

 

[chuckey]

While I do see how most fans are incredibly whiny about MML3. Being a Mega Man fan myself, I sort of understand where they are coming from. Having a game being rumored for many years, finally seeing action in some trailers, then having it cancelled and blaming the fans for it instead of just saying, "We don't think enough money is going to be made from this." I can understand the hate.

It's bad enough having a game some people were looking forward to cancelled, but to be blamed for it is insulting. However, I really think people need calm down and get over it. Yeah it hurts but let it go. Many other games that some other people were looking forward to that Mega Man fans gave two shits about have been cancelled.

....and this is coming from someone who was really looking forward to MML3.

 

[Axelhander]

Expressing discontent is fine. Uttering threats and spamming chat is not. I too saw the stream chat and wish I had mod powers for just a few minutes.

However this:

I am not broken up that Megaman Legends 3 got cancelled. I'm actually happy about it. Why? Because Megaman does not carry the same weight as it once did.

... is an extraordinarily dumb statement.

 

[orangeapples]

What you have to consider is that MML 1 and 2 had a fun story (my opinion), but the problem is that MML2 did not give us closure at the end. It'd be the same if Return of the King was never written, or Return of the Jedi wasn't made, or if everyone working on Harry Potter just decided to quite before making 7 part 2. We don't have closure. And for 10 years we didn't have any sign of closure. Then it was announced that the story will be coming to an end in MML3. We were excited because then the story would be finished (hopefully). Then for that sign of hope to be taken from us is really hard to handle.

Let us assume that 15 years you were a diehard fan of a band. You have every record, gone to every show that came near your area. But 10 years ago the band broke up in the middle of recording an album and because it was never finished it was never released and then nothing else from them. But then 6 months ago it was announced they were going to finally do their final farewell tour for their fans and everyone seems to be on board things. Things are going good they'll be performing songs from their old albums and some of the songs that should have been on the unreleased album. You're excited for it, your friends are excited for it, you meet random strangers and they are excited for it. You don't even care if it is good; you just want to see them one last time and you would love it. You're waiting patiently every day to buy a ticket, you're on the forums talking to everybody else who can't wait for the tour, then for some unexplained reason it gets canceled.

We feel betrayed because of the amount of anticipation, the promises that Capcom made, the hope that the story would finally come to an end and then canceled.

Also, Megaman not being in MvC3U is just BS. There is no excuse for that. Megaman could have been from the Battle Network universe and that would have been fine. But there is NO MegaMan.

The game was gonna fucking suffer at the hands of its "fans" because Mega Man is "that" kind of franchise. Like Zelda or Sonic, their fans' nostalgia is so much more powerful than they know, and then when it's NOT exactly like it "used to be in their childhood" they ***** and rip and hate and make it known to me that it's never EVER worth reviving anything that's been in cryosleep for 6+ years these days. You won't win with the people who weren't fans in the first place if you keep it outdated, and you won't win with the hardcore fanboys because it's too new for their manboy memories and of course, their childhoods are so fragile that they'd let one different game ruin it all.

Also, those "fans' you speak of are a vocal minority. They always have been. But because they are so vocal it seems like they are the majority. Most Sonic fans just want a solid Sonic game. Sonic Unleashed (Day stages), Sonic Colors, Sonic 4 are all great games. I'm not even a Sonic fan and I can tell you that they are fun, great games. The fanboys will just never be happy. Everyone knows that.

 

[Ramzal]

Expressing discontent is fine. Uttering threats and spamming chat is not. I too saw the stream chat and wish I had mod powers for just a few minutes.

However this:

I am not broken up that Megaman Legends 3 got cancelled. I'm actually happy about it. Why? Because Megaman does not carry the same weight as it once did.

... is an extraordinarily dumb statement.

A challange I see.

Do you care to give a logical reason as to why my statement is dumb? Besides the fact that Megaman games have not sold well outside of Megaman 9--which was an 8-bit game that was very cheap to develop on all ends and made sales from that angle as well as nostalga.

I made that statement because I love Capcom games. I do. However, I do not like the idea of the company taking a finacial hit for a mediocore title. Look at it from this point of view. What has Megaman Legends brought to gaming that no other game has not? It sure was not textures and good backgrounds because the quality of that was terrible. The voice acting was not great. The story (if you could call it that) was not that driving. Sure, doom and destruction was coming, but what did it mean to characters who weren't Megaman.

No one really reacted outside of "Well, I don't want to die." Or "I want money and rare treasure" so the characters themselves weren't ground breaking. So what am I missing that Megaman Legends so clearly brought new, fresh and unique to games that it must have a sequel?

To be honest--as a Megaman fan from age 5, Megaman is going through what Sonic is going through. The same stale pushouts, too soon and not much changed. If anything cancelling the game could give Capcom to go back, stop, think and bring something new to the table instead of another sequel which is practically the last game but with 3D.

So, once again sir. What is stupid about that?

Also, lets not fool ourselves and say that Megaman Legends is anywhere near the same as Return of the Jedi or hell, if you'd just get to the nittly gritty of it, the books of Token or even the movies. If MML's "story" is actually that engaging then spam is filet mignon. If you liked the story, that's fine. But it was not that great of a story over all.

 

[Axelhander]

Do you care to give a logical reason as to why my statement is dumb?

Using the word "logical" in a sentence where you ask me to prove a negative -- just about the most illogical thing a person can ask -- gives me pause as to whether this is worth my while.

...

... Hang on, still thinking...

... No, it isn't.

PROTIP: Don't misread that as me saying "Capcom totally should have gone for it."

 

[orangeapples]

Also, lets not fool ourselves and say that Megaman Legends is anywhere near the same as Return of the Jedi or hell, if you'd just get to the nittly gritty of it, the books of Token or even the movies. If MML's "story" is actually that engaging then spam is filet mignon. If you liked the story, that's fine. But it was not that great of a story over all.

I wasn't talking about the quality of the story, just that it is incomplete. I was just using examples that I know a lot of people can understand.

And just because you have your opinion doesn't mean you get to belittle the opinions of other people. Sure some people on that stream were being childish, but that doesn't mean that you get to respond by being childish. You were not a huge fan of MegaMan Legends and the game being canceled does not greatly affect you. That is fine. Just be understanding that they are very emotional over the whole ordeal and try to respect that.

If you best friend comes to you crying and tells you that their pet dog for 15 years has just died, you don't tell them, "Sucks to be you, that's life." No, you try to be understanding because it is all very emotional. MML fans are in a very similar spot.

 

[Ronintoadin]

Ok, wait a second pal.
This is hardly the first CAPCOM offense against their fans:
-Canceled Megaman Universe, no reason given
-Canceled Legends, according to CAPCOM Euro, it's the fans fault.
-Releasing MvC3 again, in the same year, and wants you to pay full price for it... again.
-No plans to bring Ace Attorney Investigations 2 to the west
-No plans to bring Monster Hunter Portable 3rd nor its PS3 port to the west
-Breath of Fire is dead
-They kindly gave a sweet worded "Fuck you nerds" to the Darkstalkers fans
-No plans to bring Phoenix vs. Layton to the west

Legends was just the last straw. Fans have reasons to be pissed.

I know death threats are over the line, but man, you are saying that you are actually happy that a game that some people wanted got shut down? That's a little saddist you know. Fans contributions are now worthless, devs lost their job, people that bought a 3DS to buy this game are dissapointed, and here you are grinning and happy.

 

[Ramzal]

When have I said "sucks to be you." I'm saying that the way they are reacting to it isn't childish but sick. Namely on a LIVE STREAM stating things like death to capcom or killing people who work there. It's a video game. A luxtury. Your example fails because a dog is a member of the family. Something you've built a direct emotional attatchment to BECAUSE it's your family. If someone really REALLY thinks that Megaman Legends is a part of their family, they do not deserve understanding.

They deserve help. Quick, professional, mental help. That's not even a joke, I'm dead serious.

And let me make my position very clear. I am not saddistic about it; I am glad it's closed because it's a financial risk. All those projects were doing was trying to cater towards fans. And you should never to do. Zero Punctuation said it best. Fans are whinny, demand it alls. I'm not penting my fingers because "MUWHAHAHAAH! MEGAMAN IS GONE!" but I'm glad they stopped, took a look at it and said "Yeah, this may not be a good idea."

Maybe if they did that with Other: M we wouldn't have that sack of garbage now would we? I'm glad because a company that makes games that I like can spend their money on projects that could be better than legends and sell better. Also, you shouldn't be mad at Capcom as a whole for that statement. Yes, it sounds like a dick move, but honestly were there MILLIONS of people trying to help in the development? No? Did these people give Capcom money to make it? No? Did Capcom actually scam anyone out of any money (Barring Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. /joke)? Don't think so.

If anything, you're mad at the guy who did the PR.

 

[Innegativeion]

Ok, wait a second pal.
This is hardly the first CAPCOM offense against their fans:
-Canceled Megaman Universe, no reason given
-Canceled Legends, according to CAPCOM Euro, it's the fans fault.
-Releasing MvC3 again, in the same year, and wants you to pay full price for it... again.
-No plans to bring Ace Attorney Investigations 2 to the west
-No plans to bring Monster Hunter Portable 3rd nor its PS3 port to the west
-Breath of Fire is dead
-They kindly gave a sweet worded "Fuck you nerds" to the Darkstalkers fans
-No plans to bring Phoenix vs. Layton to the west

Legends was just the last straw. Fans have reasons to be pissed.

I know death threats are over the line, but man, you are saying that you are actually happy that a game that some people wanted got shut down? That's a little saddist you know. Fans contributions are now worthless, devs lost their job, people that bought a 3DS to buy this game are dissapointed, and here you are grinning and happy.

It's true, this is the latest in a line of increasingly dumb decisions on Capcom's part.

As for no marketing power, I'm pretty sure mega man fans still flock to mega man titles, granted how few of them we've seen recently. Legends were no exception; it was gaining a big following, just not-so-many members on the obscure devroom site, which some idiot in Capcom's higher up took as a lack of interest.

 

[Ramzal]

Ok, wait a second pal.
This is hardly the first CAPCOM offense against their fans:
-Canceled Megaman Universe, no reason given
-Canceled Legends, according to CAPCOM Euro, it's the fans fault.
-Releasing MvC3 again, in the same year, and wants you to pay full price for it... again.
-No plans to bring Ace Attorney Investigations 2 to the west
-No plans to bring Monster Hunter Portable 3rd nor its PS3 port to the west
-Breath of Fire is dead
-They kindly gave a sweet worded "Fuck you nerds" to the Darkstalkers fans
-No plans to bring Phoenix vs. Layton to the west

Legends was just the last straw. Fans have reasons to be pissed.

I know death threats are over the line, but man, you are saying that you are actually happy that a game that some people wanted got shut down? That's a little saddist you know. Fans contributions are now worthless, devs lost their job, people that bought a 3DS to buy this game are dissapointed, and here you are grinning and happy.

It's true, this is the latest in a line of increasingly dumb decisions on Capcom's part.

As for no marketing power, I'm pretty sure mega man fans still flock to mega man titles, granted how few of them we've seen recently. Legends were no exception; it was gaining a big following, just not-so-many members on the obscure devroom site, which some idiot in Capcom's higher up took as a lack of interest.

So, you are saying--that without a doubt--Capcom would have sold over 2 million copies of Legends and made a profit, thus justifying a good reason for a new installment? Can you show me some numbers that prove that Legends 1 or 2 have ever made anywhere near that many sales across North America?

 

[Palademon]

Well, I can understand them complaining after they contributed their opinion so much to the development process and that paid demo was supposed to test the water, and they didn't even get that chance.

 

[Ronintoadin]

So, you are saying--that without a doubt--Capcom would have sold over 2 million copies of Legends and made a profit, thus justifying a good reason for a new installment? Can you show me some numbers that prove that Legends 1 or 2 have ever made anywhere near that many sales across North America?

Nope, never said that.

I'm going to reply you anyway.

You know, it's interesting that you mention it, because they were going to release a 2$ demo to measure that, but OH WAIT, they canned it too.
This just proves that CAPCOM doesn't care about their fans, they just want impossible numbers, the COD crowd like many people call it. Smaller companies like Atlus bring games expecting 25K to break even and receive much, much more, but nooo, the big name CAPCOM wants millions and millions of sold copies, a 1.000.000% profit (it's an exaggeration... i think) Fuck the fans, i'm CAPCOM, i will screw them whenever i like, they will love it, they will love it so much they will defend the big multinational corporation in a site famous for being a hipster den.

They need to realize that the Rainfall approach to the fans is not good PR at some point, right?

 

[Neverhoodian]

Ok, wait a second pal.
This is hardly the first CAPCOM offense against their fans:
-Canceled Megaman Universe, no reason given
-Canceled Legends, according to CAPCOM Euro, it's the fans fault.
-Releasing MvC3 again, in the same year, and wants you to pay full price for it... again.
-No plans to bring Ace Attorney Investigations 2 to the west
-No plans to bring Monster Hunter Portable 3rd nor its PS3 port to the west
-Breath of Fire is dead
-They kindly gave a sweet worded "Fuck you nerds" to the Darkstalkers fans
-No plans to bring Phoenix vs. Layton to the west

Don't forget never making Viewtiful Joe 3 and leaving the series on a cliffhanger. Goddammit Capcom, the ONE game series from you that I really liked (Megaman's overrated if you ask me...*flame shield on*), and you don't bother to at least give it closure.

I can understand fans being upset about this, particularly in light of how Capcom worded their reasoning for the cancellation (Capcom: "You have failed me for the last time, paying customers"). However, stuff like death threats goes way over the line. If you honestly wish death on somebody because they didn't release a video game you wanted to play, then you are seriously fucked in the head.

 

[Nergy]

Ok, wait a second pal.
This is hardly the first CAPCOM offense against their fans:
-Canceled Megaman Universe, no reason given
-Canceled Legends, according to CAPCOM Euro, it's the fans fault.
-Releasing MvC3 again, in the same year, and wants you to pay full price for it... again.
-No plans to bring Ace Attorney Investigations 2 to the west
-No plans to bring Monster Hunter Portable 3rd nor its PS3 port to the west
-Breath of Fire is dead
-They kindly gave a sweet worded "Fuck you nerds" to the Darkstalkers fans
-No plans to bring Phoenix vs. Layton to the west

Legends was just the last straw. Fans have reasons to be pissed.

I know death threats are over the line, but man, you are saying that you are actually happy that a game that some people wanted got shut down? That's a little saddist you know. Fans contributions are now worthless, devs lost their job, people that bought a 3DS to buy this game are dissapointed, and here you are grinning and happy.

It's true, this is the latest in a line of increasingly dumb decisions on Capcom's part.

As for no marketing power, I'm pretty sure mega man fans still flock to mega man titles, granted how few of them we've seen recently. Legends were no exception; it was gaining a big following, just not-so-many members on the obscure devroom site, which some idiot in Capcom's higher up took as a lack of interest.

So, you are saying--that without a doubt--Capcom would have sold over 2 million copies of Legends and made a profit, thus justifying a good reason for a new installment? Can you show me some numbers that prove that Legends 1 or 2 have ever made anywhere near that many sales across North America?

Can't seem to pull up any numbers for those games, but how many of 28 million do you think bought Megaman Legends 1/2. Bare in mind the Megaman Legends series is considered a lot of people's favourite megaman game.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

You seem to be implying that Megaman Legends 3 was a large project, high-risk game being developed for the PS3 with a Call of Duty budget that was being marketed to the hardcore console crowd. It was a skeleton budget game on the 3DS. The graphics looked like they did on the PSX. It was nowhere near the financial risk you say it was. Capcom was basically letting the fans do all the creative work. That would be like Blizzard phoning it in on their next game and allowing fans to write the story and create the maps using the Warcraft 3 mapmaker.

People are pissed because they invested $250 into a shitty, gimmicky DS with no games aside from a Legend of Zelda remake. Megaman Legends 3 was one of several good games lined up to make the 3DS worth buying which was cancelled. Then to rub salt into the wounds, they told all the Megaman fans everything was their fault. The bastards waited until after the 3DS was released to announce it was cancelled.

And while it may be your opinion that Legends was a poor franchise, most other people agree that it was among the strongest of the Megaman games. There's a reason Tron Bonne is still in Marvel vs Capcom.

 

[Ramzal]

You seem to be implying that Megaman Legends 3 was a large project, high-risk game being developed for the PS3 with a Call of Duty budget that was being marketed to the hardcore console crowd. It was a skeleton budget game on the 3DS. The graphics looked like they did on the PSX. It was nowhere near the financial risk you say it was. Capcom was basically letting the fans do all the creative work. That would be like Blizzard phoning it in on their next game and allowing fans to write the story and create the maps using the Warcraft 3 mapmaker.

People are pissed because they invested $250 into a shitty, gimmicky DS with no games aside from a Legend of Zelda remake. Megaman Legends 3 was one of several good games lined up to make the 3DS worth buying which was cancelled. Then to rub salt into the wounds, they told all the Megaman fans everything was their fault.

Alright, I can understand that the PR stunt sucked. And I agree that it did, and sure was a slap in the face to the fans who were trying to help by saying that it was their fault. And maybe I am overstating the costs it would be for them. But money is money. And people tend to lose jobs when money isn't made. Namely in todays world. So, I can take that it would not have cost them their company as a whole. I apologize if I overstated that.

However, I hold by my statement that money loss is money loss. For example. Megaman ZX. Sure wasn't a high budget project. A sprite game, some voice acting and really good background work that could be done in MsPaint. However, after the second game didn't sell very well Capcom did not green light a third game. Capcom is learning from their mistakes. But as far as buying a 3ds goes, that's the peoples fault. People jumped the gun and bought hardware for a game that was stated it was still on shaky ground.

Capcom did not hold a gun to anyones head. People bought those 3ds's over hype and hype alone and they have no one to blame for themselves for that.

 

[lostleader]

I would like to point out this is more than just MML3 being cancelled. No that was just the straw that broke the camels back. Fans have been enduring capcoms rather horrid nature for a while now this gen. What with the constant unneed DLC, the constant updating of the same game, refusing to localized several games. It just became too much.
Its quite obvious capcom doesnt want to deal with megaman anymore, he isnt there in MvC3 or ultimate edition. They canceled both projects with little to no thought, its just awful. Capcom deserves all this hate it gets, although being more civil about it would certainly get a better point across.

I am personally boycotting capcom(thus buying no new upcoming projects from them) till either megaman legends demo gets put out, ace attorney investigations gets localized, or layton vs. wright gets a planned release to the western world.