Men and homophobia

[Sparrow]

Sounds like bullshit. Of course, most feminist theories sound like bullshit to me. Rarely do I hear one and go "you know what, that sounds pretty logical!" I think probably because hardcore feminists (who just happen to be the most vocal feminists) have ruined it for regular feminists, but also because feminists have a way of making everything about a battle between the sexes. A guy doesn't want to cook? Oh, clearly it's because he hates women for some reason or another. It couldn't just be because he doesn't fucking like cooking.

For the most part, if there's one thing I've learnt about sexual drives within men and women it's that women are simply better at hiding theirs. Or, possibly, it's not that they're better per se... more just that they have more of a reason to. Overly sexual women are still looked down upon more than overly sexual men, by women and men alike. It may be the 21st century, but clearly some people just haven't gotten the memo. I think this relates to the topic quiet neatly, because I believe women are also much better at hiding sexual prejudice better than men. I know countless women that think bisexual and gay women are disgusting, but are all smiles and laughter the minute they're confronted with one. Hell, some of my female family members are pretty anti-lesbian but they'd never admit to it in front of a crowd.

If I'm going to be honest, gay dudes do kind of freak me out a little. I'm not saying "BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!" before anyone freaks out, I'm just saying I wouldn't like to watch two guys kiss. I don't think there's any deep rooted hatred to it or some reason in my childhood that makes me dislike it, I simply think the reasoning is that I'm straight. Again, not saying all straight people must be weirded out by gay folks. I just think in my case, due in part to my sexual orientation, I find it weird. And I think that's natural. And I hate to use this crappy little argument that EVERYONE uses, but I do have gay friends and I'm cool with them. Clearly it's just the sexual nature of homosexuality that I'm not 100% with, and for the most part I believe that's because it's anti-arousing for me. Like old people sex. Yuck.

So, I guess my point is... that I don't really have a point. Just feels good to type out some of my opinions on the matter. Also, if it helps, I'm English too.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I forgot to mention this. Females are still kind of seen in society as ?second-rate? or not the default. So people would think, ?Why would you, a man, act like that?? Like, a while ago, my friend even said, ?If you?re a man, you should act like one!? In some people?s eyes, homosexuality and the certain characteristics that can go with it (I said ?can?; I?m not stereotyping here) is still a choice. There?s a gay guy in my year at school who, for as long as I?ve known him, has sounded feminine, but he talks normally. Yet my friend insists that he?s putting it on, for whatever reason. He doesn?t have a limp wrist, he?s not a transvestite, he doesn?t bang on about musicals?he?s just a bit camp.

Also, many men just can?t understand attraction towards other men, whereas both men and women alike can understand attraction towards women because the media?s hammering it into both genders? eyes every second of the days. I mean, no-one?s telling men to be well-groomed and act overwhelmingly confident, or at least, not as much as those telling women to shave their pits and bush, put on make-up, wear tight miniskirts and high heels, etc. It's still expected for women to do their hair and put on a nice dress to a formal event, whereas men can get away with not shaving and smart-casual wear. For example, my female friend (she has something of a tomboyish energy) mentioned that she didn?t really want to wear one of those fancy dresses for prom, but she ended up doing so anyway because all the other girls were.

The only films I can think of in the last 10 years that cater fanservice for women are Casino Royale (the scene where a shirtless Daniel Craig?s walking out of the sea), Twilight and, most recently, Magic Mike. I can think of hundreds of films in the same time span that cater fanservice for men. And, well, the sexual aspects of women are just more obvious, for lack of a better explanation.

However, I will say one thing that lesbians have worse than men. It?s easy for a gay man to be friends with a woman, because the woman doesn?t have to worry about him just being friends with her to get in her pants. But it can arguably be hard for lesbians to be friends with a man, because the man could be so overcome with attraction (even if they?re butch, tits and a vagina can be enough for a lot of men) that he can?t think of anything more than trying to ?turn her back?.

I know 2 people who bat for the other team and they're sound enough.

To be honest, I feel a bit disgusted when I see two blokes kiss, kind of like when you see someone pick their nose. I mean they're entitled to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't affect me but I still find it disgusting.

Yeah, that's because it's not something you see every day: two men showing that level of affection towards each other. Whereas, if two girls do it, it's not quite as awkward because of the hotness and my aforementioned example of when two girls hold hands, it's just a friendly gesture, but when two guys do it, they're playing "Gay Chicken".

It's understandable, considering the society we live in, but I do think it shouldn't be kept under the wraps and made into a big deal whenever it is rarely talked about or shown, since that way, more people would be desensitized to it and less prone to hostility.

 

[HardkorSB]

I read an amazing book recently called 'How To Be a Woman' by Caitlin Moran. In this book, Moran discusses the fact that men tend to be a lot more homophobic than women. I can't speak for all countries but this is definitely the case in England. She goes on to talk about whether or not this is to do with the fact that men are intimidated by gay men.

Moran says that women are used to being treated as objects of a sexual nature. Be it getting whistled at in the street, or having a stranger grope you on a train. As a woman of only 20 years old I can already say that incidents such as these occur regularly. Woman are constantly pestered about their sexuality and are used to people picking up on it.

Men, however, are not. Moran suggests that this is where the fear of gay men comes from. Men are not used to being sexually targeted as women are. She believes that a lot of men feel threatened by homosexual men as they actually have the physical power to harass them as women are harassed on a daily basis.

I have asked a few of my male friends about this and they say that there could be some truth in the matter. None of my male friends are particularly homophobic, but they admitted that they feel uncomfortable knowing that gay men could hold power over them, whereas most heterosexual females physically could not.

How do you feel about this theory?

A lot of it is cultural.
If there wasn't any sort of social stigma associated with men hanging out with gay men, there would be a lot less "fear".
Also, this Moran person is making a big mistake by trying to find THE reason. There is no single reason.

I met only a few guys who were what you could have called afraid of gays and, from their explanations, it seemed that it's similar to things like fear of spiders.
They're just different and you're not sure how you should react to them and you're not sure how they're reacting to you so, to prevent any dangers (whether the dangers are really there or not), you try to distance yourself from them.
Back when we were on par with other animals, that kind of thinking was useful because you took less risks and had a bigger chance of living longer.
I think that things like racism, homophobia etc. are just leftovers in our genes from our animal times. Some of those things were also carried over to our cultures so, in many cases, they are reinforced by society.

 

[Something Amyss]

Moran says that women are used to being treated as objects of a sexual nature. Be it getting whistled at in the street, or having a stranger grope you on a train. As a woman of only 20 years old I can already say that incidents such as these occur regularly. Woman are constantly pestered about their sexuality and are used to people picking up on it.

Women also tend to be "trained" to be okay with flirting with other girls, and wanting women is treated as the standard anyway (Because men matter). It's also a good chunk of why it's more acceptable for a woman to wear "male" clothing than a man to wear "female" clothing.

Women should aspire to be men, men should consider girly stuff beneath them.

I just thought I'd add that in, because I think it's a very important piece of the puzzle.

 

[Something Amyss]

Sounds like bullshit. Of course, most feminist theories sound like bullshit to me. Rarely do I hear one and go "you know what, that sounds pretty logical!" I think probably because hardcore feminists (who just happen to be the most vocal feminists) have ruined it for regular feminists, but also because feminists have a way of making everything about a battle between the sexes. A guy doesn't want to cook? Oh, clearly it's because he hates women for some reason or another. It couldn't just be because he doesn't fucking like cooking.

I suggest you meet a few feminists some day, rather than letting third-hand accounts from Rush Limbaugh dictate your views.

More likely than not, it sounds like bullshit to you for the same reason it sounds like bullshit to the majority of men: convenience. Not changing takes literally zero effort. Even throwing in excessive rationalisation takes a very minimal effort.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

This might be the case for some men. I have a different theory- it's a matter of insecurity.

Do you see the men who are, for lack of a better term, blatantly heterosexual? They're the first to hit on any remotely interested-looking woman nearby, or to brag about their latest "conquest" to their friends. They're the most likely to use "gay" as a derogatory term, to loudly decry gay men as "disgusting" but lesbians (at least, most of them) "hot".

They're posturing.

It's a simple game to them- the "manliest" man wins. He wins the hot chicks (he can't imagine women being interested in anything else), he wins the adulation of all his manly friends. If you don't win, you lose, and that means being alone, without women and without friends- and the super-"manly" man can't handle that. Anything that takes away from their self-assigned "manly" score is therefore treated as the enemy, to be scorned at best and actively attacked at worst. These "manly" men can't handle the idea of even being associated with a gay man, because that's "minus points" for even tacitly accepting something so un-"manly".

So why do lesbians get a pass? They don't. Bisexual women do, and "manly" men assume that every lesbian is secretly just waiting for a "manly" man to get in on the fun. Watch how quickly a confirmed lesbian- you know, the one with no actual sexual interest in men- gets called a "dyke", and taunted for being "too ugly to score with a man" (even if said man was actively trying to get in her pants just moments ago). It's a form of cover- being denied by an attractive woman for any reason is "minus points".

Of course, there's no mainline standard for men any more than there is for women. But that's how I see a fair number of the virulent anti-gay guys as acting.

 

[evilneko]

Sometimes I wonder if it's 'cus penises are ugly.

Then again vaginas can be ugly too.

 

[Sparrow]

Sounds like bullshit. Of course, most feminist theories sound like bullshit to me. Rarely do I hear one and go "you know what, that sounds pretty logical!" I think probably because hardcore feminists (who just happen to be the most vocal feminists) have ruined it for regular feminists, but also because feminists have a way of making everything about a battle between the sexes. A guy doesn't want to cook? Oh, clearly it's because he hates women for some reason or another. It couldn't just be because he doesn't fucking like cooking.

I suggest you meet a few feminists some day, rather than letting third-hand accounts from Rush Limbaugh dictate your views.

More likely than not, it sounds like bullshit to you for the same reason it sounds like bullshit to the majority of men: convenience. Not changing takes literally zero effort. Even throwing in excessive rationalisation takes a very minimal effort.

Did you seriously just imply I'm narrow minded and then say "the majority of men hate feminists because they're a threat!"? I have met feminists. In fact, most folks I know seem be feminists. It's the hip new thing to be. The ones that are vocal, though. The ones that make theories and ramble on about it even when people don't bring it up, who try to make every situation some direct route to sexism... is it so wrong to just disregard everything they say?

 

[Something Amyss]

Did you seriously just imply I'm narrow minded and then say "the majority of men hate feminists because they're a threat!"?

No. Did you just seriously ignore what I actually said in favour of something I didn't say?

Yes.

 

[Sparrow]

Did you seriously just imply I'm narrow minded and then say "the majority of men hate feminists because they're a threat!"?

No. Did you just seriously ignore what I actually said in favour of something I didn't say?

Yes.

You called me some Rush Limbaugh loving sexist. Excuse me if I don't take you seriously from here on out.