men involved with domestic violence

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I don't know what to say to this. You are taking the apathy of violence against men and calling it misogyny. I guess anything can be twisted to become misogyny.

This... Is actually a pretty apt statement. Basically anything that's perceived as sexist is - I'm told - a result of patriarchy (and hence, misogyny).

And it's actually gotten me thinking: In the pursuit to bring aid and raise awareness of female victims of abuse in ways disproportionate to men, is feminism/are feminists actually reinforcing gender stereotypes?

While I've heard others refer to domestic and sexual abuse towards women as an "epidemic" among men as aggressive and violent, I'd imagine it'd actually be quite difficult for someone to be told the statistics and then shown the amount of money going into women's aid and shelters and not also come to conclusion that vulnerability and neediness are common traits among women.

The thing is though that more men are attacking other men as well than are attacking women. Men are attacking BOTH other males and females far more than women attack anyone. Men are more likely to be murdered by other MEN. Men are committing 90% of all homicides. Females were most likely to be victims of domestic homicides (63.7%) and sex-related homicides (81.7%)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime

The idea that " vulnerability and neediness are common traits among women" is an incorrect conclusion to draw, rather than men need to learn to be less violent against other males and females. Women often refrain from fighting back. The reason more funding is allocated to women's resources is because more women volunteer and create charities for women to provide those resources. More women being victims of sexual attacks and serious injury or death in domestic violence also requires more resources to be allocated to women's resources for domestic and sexual abuse, however overall more men kill other men than they kill women.

"Males were more likely to be murder victims (76.8%)" By your logic then would that mean that "vulnerability and extreme violence are common traits among men"?

 

[UberPubert]

men need to learn to be less violent against other males and females

I'm consistently amused by how this proposition is worded, I had the same thought when "teach men not to rape" made it's rounds on the web. The act is illegal, is (demonstrably) stigmatized by society, every time it is discovered masculinity as a whole is frowned upon - and this has been true for centuries. What else would you propose society do?

The reason more funding is allocated to women's resources is because more women volunteer and create charities for women to provide those resources.

Because, coincidentally, women's abuse gets far more attention and is treated more seriously than men's...most notably, by these same women and organizations who are trying to rally support for women and children alone. By doing so, they contribute to the idea that women are more vulnerable and needy than men.

By your logic then would that mean that "vulnerability and extreme violence are common traits among men"?

But this isn't really "my" logic, is it? Do you really think the people on the street watching the woman beat up on the man refrained from helping because men are more violent, or because they thought women were more vulnerable? More helpless?

And what better way to reinforce the notion than to trumpet from the rooftops that women are being beaten all the time?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

men need to learn to be less violent against other males and females

I'm consistently amused by how this proposition is worded, I had the same thought when "teach men not to rape" made it's rounds on the web. The act is illegal, is (demonstrably) stigmatized by society, every time it is discovered masculinity as a whole is frowned upon - and this has been true for centuries. What else would you propose society do?

Men being violent IS seen as acceptable by other men, that is part of the problem. Men often actually like being violent and find it exciting. My brothers for example, very much enjoyed beating the crap out of each other for fun. They did this for fun. "Brawling" is often viewed as good fun, and men elevate other men for being a "good fighter". Men often brag about how how they "beat a guy". The amount of importance males put on physical prowess is part of the problem when it is combined with anger. The combination of promoting " being a good fighter" and lack of teaching anger management is a recipe for disaster. Most men are not taught anger management nor understand the importance of learning it.

"Rape" is a joke among many men, and not stigmatized. That is why we still have major issues with things like 20 males raping an 11 year old girl:
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/21st-assailant-sentenced-in-Cleveland-gang-rape-4889262.php
or this:
"Police: As many as 20 present at gang rape outside school dance"
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/27/california.gang.rape.investigation/
or this:
"Family Gets Driven Out of Missouri Town After Daughter Gets Raped"
http://gawker.com/family-gets-driven-out-of-missouri-town-after-daughter-1444590830
When males are getting together in groups to rape women, there does not seem to be much peer pressure to stop it. In some circles, this is still seen as a "cool, fun and exciting" thing to do. Much more education needs to happen and more popular male role models have to educate the youth. We need peer pressure from the youth and role models to change this. We need more male volunteers, more men stepping up and speaking out and less males and females turning a blind eye.

I also think that instead of trying to portray women as "more weak" to draw in more predators, you should show the reality that this happens to both men and women and needs to stop.

 

[UberPubert]

Men being violent IS seen as acceptable by other men,

Maybe I should have clarified. You seem to be equating rough-housing between relatives as play to injuring other people out of malice. There is nothing wrong with wrestling with one another, physical competition between men is healthy physically, socially, and mentally.

"Rape" is a joke among many men, and not stigmatized. That is why we still have major issues with things like 20 males raping an 11 year old girl

Really? Jokes lead to pedophilia and gang rapes? Do I really have to point out how joking about something is not the same as endorsing it? And is absolutely not a prelude to acting upon it?

When males are getting together in groups to rape women, there does not seem to be much peer pressure to stop it.

In between fellow rapists? No, I don't suppose there would be, but the vast majority of people are not rapists and happen to frown upon that thing, by definition it is stigmatized.

Much more education needs to happen and more popular male role models have to educate the youth. We need peer pressure from the youth and role models to change this. We need more male volunteers, more men stepping up and speaking out and less males and females turning a blind eye.

So, in addition to rape and violence being illegal, frowned upon by society, and derided as masculine behavior, we need to teach more men that it is still illegal, have masculine figures deride it, and then have more people frown upon it?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Men being violent IS seen as acceptable by other men,

Maybe I should have clarified. You seem to be equating rough-housing between relatives as play to injuring other people out of malice. There is nothing wrong with wrestling with one another, physical competition between men is healthy physically, socially, and mentally.

"Rape" is a joke among many men, and not stigmatized. That is why we still have major issues with things like 20 males raping an 11 year old girl

Really? Jokes lead to pedophilia and gang rapes? Do I really have to point out how joking about something is not the same as endorsing it? And is absolutely not a prelude to acting upon it?

When males are getting together in groups to rape women, there does not seem to be much peer pressure to stop it.

In between fellow rapists? No, I don't suppose there would be, but the vast majority of people are not rapists and happen to frown upon that thing, by definition it is stigmatized.

Much more education needs to happen and more popular male role models have to educate the youth. We need peer pressure from the youth and role models to change this. We need more male volunteers, more men stepping up and speaking out and less males and females turning a blind eye.

So, in addition to rape and violence being illegal, frowned upon by society, and derided as masculine behavior, we need to teach more men that it is still illegal, have masculine figures deride it, and then have more people frown upon it?

My brothers "rough housing" included broken bones, dislodged teeth, blood, bruises, and sometimes included weapons. Yes they did THIS for fun. Oddly, they were not alone, The things I saw guys do in college at parties "for fun" to each other could have gotten someone killed. My brothers beat the crap out of each other, guys at parties cut each other with razor blades flinging blood everywhere, the rough housing often includes anger not just " horsing around".

No, we do not need to just teach men it is "illegal", in fact, teaching someone that something is illegal is the least of the concerns, most KNOW it is illegal, many things are illegal and people still do them because often being illegal means it is "rebellious" and "cool". People should not do things simply because they are " illegal" but because they view it as wrong. It being illegal adds an additional level of excitement rather than helps deter. It has to be shown as "uncool" by the toughest, roughest guys rather than just by the "goody two shoes". Guys do drugs, run stoplights, speed, to not be goody two shoes, to be rebellious, to go against the grain, but tough men would have to pressure other men to think they are " lame" or " stupid" to rape. There is a difference. Until society does that it will still be a big problem. It has to have it's power removed by showing it to be " lame."

Although "wider adult society" shows rape to be a bad thing, the youth are still not seeing rape as "lame." "Rape that *****" is still seen as cool and funny. That is what has to change.

"I had to rape his b*tch cause the hoe was stacked
I f*cked her from the back, with my gun to her back
I left up out his crib, with dolla and purple hat" - DJ Paul"
http://smokingsection.uproxx.com/TSS/2013/04/50-absurd-rape-lyrics#page/1
This is still being promoted as " cool"

 

[UberPubert]

the rough housing often includes anger not just " horsing around".

And if that's your personal experience that's unfortunate, but I've never heard of or experienced it before. Worst thing I've ever encountered is mosh pits and bruising was the absolute worst of it. What you're relaying is by no means a societal standard, and how could it be? The majority of men would have to be crippled and scarred by the time they reached adulthood, if they were even that lucky.

No, we do not need to just teach men it is "illegal"

What's up with the air quotes? There's no mincing words here, it's just as illegal as any other crime with serious consequences.

"rebellious" and "cool"

You sound like you're reading off a pamphlet for an anti-drug officer's presentation at my middle school. And with drugs, I have never heard anyone say they want to do these things because they wanted to be rebellious or cool, most people I hear it from say their friends were already doing it and they wanted to fit in or, quite simply, "It felt good" and they were exposed to it at an age where they either didn't understand or didn't care about the long-term consequences.

Serious violent and sexual assault perpetrators are naturally rarer and so I can't speak from personal experience on them, but from friends the sentiment is about the same: Violence is a last resort, rape is only ever acceptable in joke form, and not intended for polite conversation.

 

[chikusho]

For you, an attack of a man by a woman and nobody stepping in to help the man is less about people not caring about violence against men and more about the status of women. Does a man have to die before he becomes a priority?

It IS about the status of a woman because if you had a man beating the crap out of another man, people would be worried. Women are seen so low that people think it is comical, like if a baby were to be attacking him. Until societies views of women as equals becomes more widespread this will continue to be the case. when you look at who finally comes to the mans aid in this video, it is strong women who see the woman as an equal, not the men coming to help him because they do not perceive her as a threat.

Not even the male officer wanted to help him, but the women finally did.

I don't know what to say to this. You are taking the apathy of violence against men and calling it misogyny. I guess anything can be twisted to become misogyny.

Do a quick word search here buddy. You're the only one who's mentioning misogyny in this exchange. And quite frankly, that smells like a victim complex to me.
To put it simply, if women were respected in society the same way that men are, mens abuse by women would be taken more seriously by everyone. If you can't consider that as a valid viewpoint, it seems to me you are just looking at this as an "us vs them" situation, and that's really not helping anyone.

 

[generals3]

My brothers "rough housing" included broken bones, dislodged teeth, blood, bruises, and sometimes included weapons. Yes they did THIS for fun. Oddly, they were not alone, The things I saw guys do in college at parties "for fun" to each other could have gotten someone killed. My brothers beat the crap out of each other, guys at parties cut each other with razor blades flinging blood everywhere, the rough housing often includes anger not just " horsing around".

Well i just want to say not all men, at all, are like that. I personally never encountered that attitude. Neither at home, among friends, in highschool nor college. Maybe it's a cultural thing and in the US this is still more "in" or something like that but i'd be careful as to conclude things about general male attitude based on that.

People should not do things simply because they are " illegal" but because they view it as wrong. It being illegal adds an additional level of excitement rather than helps deter.

Technically what is illegal is supposed to be wrong. And usually the teaching of what is wrong starts there, with the law stating it. Now whether that is enough is another thing.

Although "wider adult society" shows rape to be a bad thing, the youth are still not seeing rape as "lame." "Rape that *****" is still seen as cool and funny. That is what has to change.

I'd say that again depend heavily on who. I never had the feeling anyone around me considered "rape" to be cool. But maybe that's because my environment always consisted of upper social classes citizens?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

the rough housing often includes anger not just " horsing around".

And if that's your personal experience that's unfortunate, but I've never heard of or experienced it before. Worst thing I've ever encountered is mosh pits and bruising was the absolute worst of it. What you're relaying is by no means a societal standard, and how could it be? The majority of men would have to be crippled and scarred by the time they reached adulthood, if they were even that lucky.

No, we do not need to just teach men it is "illegal"

What's up with the air quotes? There's no mincing words here, it's just as illegal as any other crime with serious consequences.

"rebellious" and "cool"

You sound like you're reading off a pamphlet for an anti-drug officer's presentation at my middle school. And with drugs, I have never heard anyone say they want to do these things because they wanted to be rebellious or cool, most people I hear it from say their friends were already doing it and they wanted to fit in or, quite simply, "It felt good" and they were exposed to it at an age where they either didn't understand or didn't care about the long-term consequences.

Serious violent and sexual assault perpetrators are naturally rarer and so I can't speak from personal experience on them, but from friends the sentiment is about the same: Violence is a last resort, rape is only ever acceptable in joke form, and not intended for polite conversation.

Maybe it is a regional " rough house" thing? The guys I knew growing up were more like Marshall and his brothers from how I met your mother:

"illegal" is it is technically illegal, but some seem to still think it is fun or exciting. No, people do not say those words LOL.Why someone does something may not always be the words they use. They say they do it for fun, a release, the rush or they didn't want to look stupid in front of their friends. Just think how many of those 20 kids who raped that 11 year old girl did it only because the other guys did it? If the other guys hadn't done it, chances are most of them wouldn't have been pressured into it, all it takes is one guy they perceive as cool to change their perception. Violence is far from the last resort here in the DFW metroplex in Texas. We have cartels, gangs and fight clubs all over the place. In the schools here you cannot even wear two different colored shoe laces or bracelets because people show gang colors that way. Rape jokes are not okay when they are part of the condoning and acceptance of rape. How do you take away it's power when guys think it is funny to rape someone as a form of punishment?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

My brothers "rough housing" included broken bones, dislodged teeth, blood, bruises, and sometimes included weapons. Yes they did THIS for fun. Oddly, they were not alone, The things I saw guys do in college at parties "for fun" to each other could have gotten someone killed. My brothers beat the crap out of each other, guys at parties cut each other with razor blades flinging blood everywhere, the rough housing often includes anger not just " horsing around".

Well i just want to say not all men, at all, are like that. I personally never encountered that attitude. Neither at home, among friends, in highschool nor college. Maybe it's a cultural thing and in the US this is still more "in" or something like that but i'd be careful as to conclude things about general male attitude based on that.

People should not do things simply because they are " illegal" but because they view it as wrong. It being illegal adds an additional level of excitement rather than helps deter.

Technically what is illegal is supposed to be wrong. And usually the teaching of what is wrong starts there, with the law stating it. Now whether that is enough is another thing.

Although "wider adult society" shows rape to be a bad thing, the youth are still not seeing rape as "lame." "Rape that *****" is still seen as cool and funny. That is what has to change.

I'd say that again depend heavily on who. I never had the feeling anyone around me considered "rape" to be cool. But maybe that's because my environment always consisted of upper social classes citizens?

Gangsta Rap is a big problem in the US with it's popularity and it's promotion of rape. Many youth, even from wealthy families here think gangsta culture is cool, hopefully soon it will be on it's way out because it has been detrimental to trying to combat rape culture among youth. The kids look up to these guys seeing them as tough and cool and that makes it that much harder to trying to show that rape is cowardly and lame. It is an uphill battle when popular artists kids idolize promote these things.

EDIT: I do not think you start by teaching something is illegal, I see teaching that it is illegal was a consequence of it being wrong and people made it illegal as a result of people not tolerating it. You start by teaching them why something is harmful and why people made it illegal rather than saying, "it is wrong because it is illegal". There are plenty of things that are wrong that are perfectly legal, you still teach they are wrong regardless of legality. Being illegal is just one of the possible effects of something being wrong.

 

[chikusho]

I'd say that again depend heavily on who. I never had the feeling anyone around me considered "rape" to be cool. But maybe that's because my environment always consisted of upper social classes citizens?

Gangsta Rap is a big problem in the US with it's popularity and it's promotion of rape. Many youth, even from wealthy families here think gangsta culture is cool, hopefully soon it will be on it's way out because it has been detrimental to trying to combat rape culture among youth. The kids look up to these guys seeing them as tough and cool and that makes it that much harder to trying to show that rape is cowardly and lame. It is an uphill battle when popular artists kids idolize promote these things.[/quote]

I think you're waaay off if you think gangsta rap is at the heart of the issue.
No one would look up to gangsta rap and it's supposed rape culture and take it at face value if they came from a stable environment in the first place.
Gangsta rap as a phenomenon is only a result of the real life mentalities that already exist within society. The lust for power, domination and ownership of other people is not a product of rap lyrics. And if gangsta rap didn't exist you'd probably be calling for another symptom to be addressed rather than the actual disease.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I think you're waaay off if you think gangsta rap is at the heart of the issue.
No one would look up to gangsta rap and it's supposed rape culture and take it at face value if they came from a stable environment in the first place.
Gangsta rap as a phenomenon is only a result of the real life mentalities that already exist within society. The lust for power, domination and ownership of other people is not a product of rap lyrics. And if gangsta rap didn't exist you'd probably be calling for another symptom to be addressed rather than the actual disease.

Oh of course Gangsta rap is a symptom, not the cause. They had to feel this way BEFORE they wrote songs. The songs were just a reflection of a lifestyle. The issue with gangsta rap promoting gangsta culture is that it is promoting raping as being a cool and acceptable thing to do and spreading those ideas further making it more difficult to combat. When they are spreading that " this is cool" to kids who might not have ever felt that way, then find they really enjoy and like gangsta culture will accept that view of rape along with many of the other views expressed by that lifestyle. The idea that " rape" is a part of any lifestyle is part of the problem. Rap becoming popular only spread that lifestyle further and made these ideas more widespread.

 

[Frankster]

Now I agree we may be armed to the teeth with confirmation bias, even so I was expecting to find a 24 hour men's hotline in the UK and was disappointed to see that I could not find one easily. I may have bias due to my experience with rape and abuse at the hands of men, but even I can see there should be a 24 hour hotline for men in need of help. There really is no excuse for that. I wish to actively help solve these problems but it is often hard to do when men keep screaming " womenz don't care about us!" when that simply is not true.

When working at one of the primary mental health centers in London I was asked to compile a list of numbers of services and hotlines for easy reference,divided into categories such as gender specific services, and whilst I had no problem filling entire pages with lists of female only services, I had to really dig the bottom of the barrel for services for males (and even then, most of the numbers I called to check up on them didn't even exist anymore). There was also noted to be a general lack of specialized services and institutions .

Our local counselors also consistently noted difficulty with male patients in getting them to attend their sessions and stick to their treatment. I'll leave wiser people then me to hypothesize why that was.

It took google 0.4 seconds to find like, a dozen male specific hotlines in the UK.

See above. Try actually calling those numbers you've googled cos I guarantee you most don't exist anymore. And tbh, a dozen numbers to me seems like an amazing amount xD I'd have been grateful back in the day for just like 5 numbers that actually worked.
Actually wait, I'm still thinking in terms of London.. You say you found just a dozen numbers for the WHOLE OF THE UK? Well I rest my case.

It was especially problematic as we had a few severe cases of really horrible spousal abuse with a male victim, but had no where to send them to except back home.


P.s: I'm just relaying my anecdotal experience here, not seeking to take sides in any debate I might have rudely jumped into, haven't even read the previous few pages xP

 

[chikusho]

I think you're waaay off if you think gangsta rap is at the heart of the issue.
No one would look up to gangsta rap and it's supposed rape culture and take it at face value if they came from a stable environment in the first place.
Gangsta rap as a phenomenon is only a result of the real life mentalities that already exist within society. The lust for power, domination and ownership of other people is not a product of rap lyrics. And if gangsta rap didn't exist you'd probably be calling for another symptom to be addressed rather than the actual disease.

Oh of course Gangsta rap is a symptom, not the cause. They had to feel this way BEFORE they wrote songs. The songs were just a reflection of a lifestyle. The issue with gangsta rap promoting gangsta culture is that it is promoting raping as being a cool and acceptable thing to do and spreading those ideas further making it more difficult to combat. When they are spreading that " this is cool" to kids who might not have ever felt that way, then find they really enjoy and like gangsta culture will accept that view of rape along with many of the other views expressed by that lifestyle. The idea that " rape" is a part of any lifestyle is part of the problem. Rap becoming popular only spread that lifestyle further and made these ideas more widespread.

You are seriously underestimating "kids".
As I've already pointed out, the only kids who think rape is cool due to impressions from media are already disturbed because of other circumstances. Rap hasn't caused rape, just like Marilyn Manson didn't cause the Columbine school shooting.

 

[Thaluikhain]

You are seriously underestimating "kids".
As I've already pointed out, the only kids who think rape is cool due to impressions from media are already disturbed because of other circumstances. Rap hasn't caused rape, just like Marilyn Manson didn't cause the Columbine school shooting.

Any one cultural element doesn't cause rape (or similar issues), but attitudes towards and rates of rape vary a lot amongst different cultures.

 

[chikusho]

You are seriously underestimating "kids".
As I've already pointed out, the only kids who think rape is cool due to impressions from media are already disturbed because of other circumstances. Rap hasn't caused rape, just like Marilyn Manson didn't cause the Columbine school shooting.

Any one cultural element doesn't cause rape (or similar issues), but attitudes towards and rates of rape vary a lot amongst different cultures.

Neither of which are caused by rap lyrics. What's your point?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I think you're waaay off if you think gangsta rap is at the heart of the issue.
No one would look up to gangsta rap and it's supposed rape culture and take it at face value if they came from a stable environment in the first place.
Gangsta rap as a phenomenon is only a result of the real life mentalities that already exist within society. The lust for power, domination and ownership of other people is not a product of rap lyrics. And if gangsta rap didn't exist you'd probably be calling for another symptom to be addressed rather than the actual disease.

Oh of course Gangsta rap is a symptom, NOT THE CAUSE. They had to feel this way BEFORE they wrote songs. The songs were just a reflection of a lifestyle. The issue with gangsta rap promoting gangsta culture is that it is promoting raping as being a cool and acceptable thing to do and spreading those ideas further making it more difficult to combat. When they are spreading that " this is cool" to kids who might not have ever felt that way, then find they really enjoy and like gangsta culture will accept that view of rape along with many of the other views expressed by that lifestyle. The idea that " rape" is a part of any lifestyle is part of the problem. Rap becoming popular only spread that lifestyle further and made these ideas more widespread.

You are seriously underestimating "kids".
As I've already pointed out, the only kids who think rape is cool due to impressions from media are already disturbed because of other circumstances. Rap hasn't caused rape, just like Marilyn Manson didn't cause the Columbine school shooting.

I bolded and capped it, just in case you missed it. Being a symptom, and promoting and spreading rape culture is not the cause, it is a symptom, as I already stated above. Just as girls mimic Brittany Spears and Lady gaga, boys also mimic DJ Paul and Eminem. When people they look up to promote these things as cool it affects the way they view them and tolerate them.

 

[chikusho]

I bolded and capped it, just in case you missed it. Being a symptom, and promoting and spreading rape culture is not the cause, it is a symptom, as I already stated above. Just as girls mimic Brittany Spears and Lady gaga, boys also mimic DJ Paul and Eminem. When people they look up to promote these things as cool it affects the way they view them and tolerate them.

Yeah, it's a symptom. Not the cause. Or even a cause.
The intent to hurt people is already there, and rap lyrics is not going to sway someone to grow up to be a rapist.
There an enormous difference between growing pig tails and singing on front of a mirror and raping someone. I'm quite baffled as to why you would even make the comparison.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I bolded and capped it, just in case you missed it. Being a symptom, and promoting and spreading rape culture is not the cause, it is a symptom, as I already stated above. Just as girls mimic Brittany Spears and Lady gaga, boys also mimic DJ Paul and Eminem. When people they look up to promote these things as cool it affects the way they view them and tolerate them.

Yeah, it's a symptom. Not the cause. Or even a cause.
The intent to hurt people is already there, and rap lyrics is not going to sway someone to grow up to be a rapist.
There an enormous difference between growing pig tails and singing on front of a mirror and raping someone. I'm quite baffled as to why you would even make the comparison.

You cannot tell me that the 20 males who raped that 11 year old girl would have all " grown up to be rapist" without the culture of rape being acceptable being promoted to them. It is a matter of showing how something is accepted and fun thing to do. When role models show that something is " in" they start trends and change peoples feelings towards those things. You think that is all girls do when they like a singer? Of course not. Do you not remember what 4th grade girls were like? Swearing, fighting, talking about blow jobs? In 6th grade I remember a girl was beat down in the bathroom with a dildo and a girl forced it into her mouth because she saw her boyfriend talking to her in the hall. Yes, that is the reality of young girls these days because regardless of what their parents tell them, they want to " be cool" and fit in and are not immune to the world around them.

When I was growing up, my mother had to forbid my brother from watching Batman because every time they had a "pow" scene he started punching and kicking me an my sisters. He gave my sister a black eye and bloodied my nose because he was " being batman". My other brother was banned from watching teenage mutant ninja turtles after he made homemade nun-chucks and beat my other brother with them trying to imitate them. Now this does not mean that either grew up to beat people up all the time, but it did make them view violence as fun and cool. Rape is an extreme act of violence. The appeal of gangsta culture is the " don't give a shit" attitude and taking things to the extreme, including violence. They look up to these guys because they see them as tough, strong and " how a man should be". The problem when Dj Paul says things like:
"I had to rape his b*tch cause the hoe was stacked
I f*cked her from the back, with my gun to her back
I left up out his crib, with dolla and purple hat"
is that when kids who look up to him as how they want to be, they can view this as an acceptable point of view. Even if they do not think they would rape anyone themselves, they are more likely to not see it as that abnormal for someone else to. When it is seen as acceptable, as a normal thing that people do, we have a problem.

No people do not run out and rape someone because they heard a rap song, but they are less likely to care if someone else did, they are less likely to report it or try to stop it if it isn't seen as something that is wrong. Just as kids do not "snitch" on other kids for fighting, they do not snitch on rape. 44% of rape happens before the age of 18, before they have even fully developed their prefrontal cortex. When they are being bombarded with media that says it is cool, are they really going to take the teachers or posters telling them it is wrong seriously? Kids listen to their peers and people they "want to be like" more than they listen to their parents and teachers. It is an uphill battle when they have the coolest people they know telling them they do it. Of course that didn't cause the problem but it sure as hell isn't help solve it.

 

[chikusho]

You cannot tell me that the 20 males who raped that 11 year old girl would have all " grown up to be rapist" without the culture of rape being acceptable being promoted to them. It is a matter of showing how something is accepted and fun thing to do.

First of all, no place of society is consider rape to be a fun and acceptable thing to. So when someone gets that from someone, it's not going to be from TV. It's going to be from another person. And as I've repeatedly pointed out, someone who's going to do something horrible will be doing them for other reason than "rapper said it" and would do something horrible whether or not the music phenomenon even existed.

When role models show that something is " in" they start trends and change peoples feelings towards those things.

That only accounts for doing one sort of horrible "in" things instead of another horrible thing. Whether or not they learn about a particular horrible thing to do from one place or another is highly irrelevant, since the will and capability to perform them comes somewhere else entirely.

In 6th grade I remember a girl was beat down in the bathroom with a dildo and a girl forced it into her mouth because she saw her boyfriend talking to her in the hall. Yes, that is the reality of young girls these days because regardless of what their parents tell them, they want to " be cool" and fit in and are not immune to the world around them.

Yeah, which Britney Spears video was that again?

When I was growing up, my mother had to forbid my brother from watching Batman because every time they had a "pow" scene he started punching and kicking me an my sisters. He gave my sister a black eye and bloodied my nose because he was " being batman". My other brother was banned from watching teenage mutant ninja turtles after he made homemade nun-chucks and beat my other brother with them trying to imitate them. Now this does not mean that either grew up to beat people up all the time, but it did make them view violence as fun and cool.

Kids beat up each other all the time for all sorts of reasons. There's an enormous difference between not realizing the cause and effect of hurting someone when you're playing and hurting someone on purpose. An even more enormous difference between that and raping someone when you're grown.

Rape is an extreme act of violence. The appeal of gangsta culture is the " don't give a shit" attitude and taking things to the extreme, including violence. They look up to these guys because they see them as tough, strong and " how a man should be".

Even if that was true, the only reason anyone would think that's how a man should be is from circumstances in and around that persons life. Not because of rap lyrics, because without that filter all those lyrics would be nonsense anyway.

is that when kids who look up to him as how they want to be, they can view this as an acceptable. Even if they do not think they would rape anyone themselves, they are more likely to not see it as that abnormal for someone else to. When it is seen as acceptable, as a normal thing that people do, we have a problem.

And when people see it as an acceptable thing to do, it's because of circumstances and other people in their life. Not rap lyrics.

No people do not run out and rape someone because they heard a rap song, but they are less likely to care if someone else did, they are less likely to report it or try to stop it if it isn't seen as something that is wrong.

Which is a behavior learned by other people, not rap lyrics.

Just as kids do not "snitch" on other kids for fighting, they do not snitch on rape. 44% of rape happens before the age of 18, before they have even fully developed their prefrontal cortex. When they are being bombarded with media that says it is cool, are they really going to take the teachers or posters telling them it is wrong seriously? Kids listen to their peers and people they "want to be like" more than they listen to their parents and teachers. It is an uphill battle when they have the coolest people they know telling them they do it. Of course that didn't cause the problem but it sure as hell isn't help solve it.

Yet we live in a time with more tough guy rap lyrics than ever in the history of the world (not really, you can find exactly the same material in old songs and genres and other media as well), and the rate of rape is at an all time low. Funny how that works.