Fox12 said:
Ramzal said:
Oh, this is the height of absurdity.
This isn't an academically peer reviewed scholarly article, it's a web forum where people discuss video games, comics, anime, and other geeky things. If you came here expecting scholarly research then the faults on you for coming to the wrong website. I spend all day tutoring students about how to write a proper argumentative or informative essay. I plan to move into the academic field. A web forum is not the place for that. It's casual, and the tone is conversational, which means the use of "you" is totally acceptable. Don't misappropriate academic standards in a way they weren't meant to be used, and then use them as a shield against criticism. Because you failed to meet those standards yourself. Your argument boiled down to "your structure was so wrong that I don't even need to engage your thoughts." That's silly. Because you did the same thing your criticizing him for. You put words in other people's mouths, and said that the reason people don't like the game is because it's too dark, and they can't take it. Which is untrue.
But lets discuss ideas. I don't want to force Kojima to "censor" the content in question. He has the right to tell his story the way he wants. However, I can, and will, criticize him if I feel like he didn't do a very good job.
Lets start with the bomb removal. At first I was impressed by the attention to detail. We see the surgeon sever the stitches, and then carefully remove them increment by increment. Afterwards he uses tools to open the wound. I liked that Kojima had done his research. Then the surgeon proceeded to
shove both of his hands into her stomach and move her organs around while Paz flailed around on the table, which would have done serious damage to her body. From that point forward it was impossible to take the scene seriously.
As for rape, yes, you can depict it in film, literature, and video games. As I mentioned before, several games have. The problem here is that Kojima did a poor job of handling it. The writing is dreadful in these scenes, especially the dialogue, and Skullfaces porno voice doesn't help. Worse still, there appears to be little point. Kojima clearly wasn't trying to capture the horrors of war on the human mind because he immediately kills those involved, and we never see the impact on the characters.
I don't think anyone is criticizing the game because they're too weak, and it makes them uncomfortable (not that there's anything wrong with that, rape SHOULD make you uncomfortable). They're criticizing it for its shallow nature, and how its used as nothing but a plot device. They're criticizing it because it tries to be shocking and edgy, but has no depth, so it feels hollow.
Actually, if you paid attention you'd notice that I never regarded him in the first place. He decided to take my argument which is against the idea of making an idea go away because you don't like it and his point was that he doesn't seem to like me and thinks I am what is holding society back (To which...whatever. I'm not losing any sleep over him or his thoughts of me. I just find him to be arguing wrong/rude as hell.) There's a reason why I put those links there. This is a fact, people use those very same techniques when they are placed in managerial positions in business. From McDonalds, accounting offices, all the way to social worker positions. Also he's arguing a person and assuming what I meant and trying to tell me what I think and feel or try to evaluate my worth and standing as a human being when in reality he has no idea who I am or what I do for a living.
Which in my opinion is the height of douchebaggery and condescending. I stated a concern, he jumped down my throat instead of arguing the point while knowing what he was doing.
When you argue a point you argue the point, not a person. When you argue a -person- then you are directly making it personal as opposed to about the topic. So yes, he fails at arguing. Whether or not Kojima did a poor job in handling it is completely subjective. I feel he did a fine enough job. Others have agreed he is doing a great job as they keep learning about his stories while enjoying them and want more. There's a reason why Metal Gear solid is a story people pay attention to.
How do you not see how war affects characters in the games? Solid Snake in the story in a war veteran and after Zanzibar he's done and suffers PTSD where he hardly slept when he was in Alaska, drunk too much and couldn't maintain human connection. If you shoot too many people in MG4, Snake's memories of Liquid's words "YOU ENJOY ALL OF THE KILLING! THAT'S WHY!" comes back to him and causes him to throw up/losing a crap ton of stamina.
Raiden purposely keeps people at arms length without even realizing he's doing it because he's convinced he will eventually hurt them---which he did to Rose. He has attacked her without knowing once and slapped her for invading his personal space which was exactly as he had when he was a child soldier. He was trying to keep people out of that part of his life and she physically forced her way INTO his room and into that.
If you say the game is shallow, then that is your opinion that is not fact. If you are saying that it is too hallow then that is your
opinion not fact. It is being stated as though it is fact and that is an issue when you are trying to make a point. If it is stated "I think this is hollow" then that makes perfect sense. But to throw your opinion on something and use that opinion as a tool for
reasoning is flawed beyond belief. If I said DC system was better than AC system because the more power that's used to turn on a light bulb, I would be right to have an opinion but wrong in everything else.
Also I didn't fail to meet those requirements which I linked because I never argued the person. When I DID refer to him, I was doing so to put to rest the very idea that he seemed to have that I was focused on how much he or anyone enjoyed the game--which is irrelevant to a discussion about Metal Gear Solid's take on rape. The reason Paz was raped was because of someone in the position of power to do so. Rape is about power and exerting that power on someone and has nothing to do with sexual attraction.
Vulgan from MG3 has shown this with how he interacts with Ivan and with Eva. He has some interest in them physically but it's about what power he can exert over them. Rape is done wrong when a character who rapes says he did it because he wanted to feel sex with that person or the victim explains that it's because they wanted to feel sex. Life is Strange did it right as the rapist was a kid who carried a gun with him and constantly had to self motivate himself in the mirror telling himself that he is always in control.
Those are the traits of a rapist. Usually in games and some novels/shows, they do it just to feel sex which is wrong.
Also, on the surgery point:
This is kind of graphic for those who can't handle it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViG6EwD9-v0
This is an intra-abdominal cyst. Meaning they had to go into the abdominal wall to get to it where there are organs present and did you notice how he scooped it out with his hands?
Surgeons often shove their hands right into abdominal to remove foreign objects in order to get it out. They are capable of doing so because they know what they are doing. Moving organs aside for the sake of getting so something is done far more often than one would think. Moving intestines aside is a large deal for those who don't know what they're doing but a surgeon can if they know what they are doing.
Yes, she was flailing. They had no anesthesia on hand and anesthesiologist/soldier is a VERY unlikely combination. This is done when things are desperate and an operation HAS to happen on the fly or there is no other point where it can happen. I am not trying to be rude here, but this is another case where opinion gets in the way of what is occurring. Was it the most favorable conditions? No, but it was all they had at the time.
The point of the scene was "Oh shit, there's something in there we NEED to get out right now!" Not "Lets do this because I've always wanted to do abdominal surgery in a moving aerial vehicle." It HAD to be done at that very moment, so it was done. Medical procedures are not always done when and where it is most advantageous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SABOom1258
Another example of doctors shoving their hands inside of someone.
The only difference is that these guys were out cold while Paz was held down. It is still very possible to do abdominal surgery on an awake patient while they are feeling it. If it weren't then many MANY people would have died during child birth complications.
Also:
"Because you did the same thing your criticizing him for."
"Because you did the same thing
you're /
you are criticizing him for"
If you want to argue structure, get your grammar straight. Critiquing is not an object/possession. If you are using the fact that you tutor people for days in developing persuasive papers, that's a huge oversight. If we're using a person to argue against, then there you go.
"You put words in other people's mouths, and said that the reason people don't like the game is because it's too dark, and they can't take it. Which is untrue."
I never argued people liking the game---which again, allow me to reiterate that I don't care if someone does or doesn't like the game. That is their own business. What I am arguing is that it is silly and very sensitive for people to call for certain things to be
removed because they are uncomfortable with what's happening. If they don't want to play the game because of things that happen, that's completely cool. I didn't play DmC because of the changes made to Dante, that's my bag but it's pretty silly to want them to change their direction because -I- don't like it.
I don't even care that my wife loves the Sims outside when she is excited while playing it or if I'm buying it for her and seeing her smile while she enjoys it. I think it's a dumb game and I don't see why people enjoy it, but good on her and everyone else who does.
