MGS Series Ponderings (SPOILER ALERT)

Recommended Videos

Evil Lawyer

New member
Dec 30, 2007
41
0
0
Before we get into this topic I would like to say that I am firmly pro-Metal Gear and despite the flaws and questions that are about to follow, this is easily my favourite game series. That being said, it's certainly not a perfect series. Here are some lingering questions the end of MGS4 left me with.

Again, for those who missed it in the title: SPOILER ALERT

1. Johnny (Akiba) spends two games and 3/4's of MGS4 being an incompetent, incontenent, bumbling walking butt-end of a joke. Then, at the drop of a hat, he becomes a badass who mows down countless FROGs with nearly perfect aim and confidence. I understand that he didn't have nano-machines in the Middle East and was sick because of that, but in MGS and MGS2 he still had bowl trouble and you can't blame nano-machines for those two. One could argue the he gained enough confidence to reveal his feelings for Meryl, so he then had confidence in his fighting ability, but surely those skills would have presented themselves at some point earlier. I might just be reading into this a bit too much, but damn it, it still bothers me!

2. Big Boss was revived after the Patriots AI's were destroyed. He was rebuilt with pieces of Liquid and Solidus. Ok, I'll take that cup of tea. But where I'm confused is the point where Big Boss's body was switched with Solidus. If you recall, Big Boss's vital signs were a control mechanism for the Patriot AI's and SOP. By switching him with Solidus, there should be a point where the vital sgins stop during the switch as one body is substituted for the other. I think one of the AI's might have, you know, noticed that perhaps? I might have missed something in a cutscene somewhere, but there had to be a brief moment where there were no vitals when the switch was made.

Also, if Big Boss was sedateded with nano-machines and he was frozen with his only hope of revival being the destruction of the AI's, wouldn't the nano-machine control stop after he was switched with Solidus? I know he mentions that he was awakened when the AI's were destroyed, but if he was no longer in Patriot hands could he not then, in theory, be woken up by alternative means? This one I might have completely skipped over on my third playthrough, but I'm pretty sure they never address this fact.

3. Raiden returns from his injuries with the bothersome handicap of being armless. He then proceeds to use his electric sword to cause power surges and even zaps a FROG as he aides Snake in getting to the GW AI. My question is WHEN THE HELL DID HE GET THE ABILITY TO ZAP PEOPLE, AND WHY DID HE ONLY DO IT ONCE? SURE, HE MIGHT NEED TO CHARGE THE BLOODY THING, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE IT COULD ZAP THINGS MORE THAN ONCE EVERY HOUR OR SO!

Also, on a subjective note, wasn't he a bit thick when he finally saw his son, yet at first he believed it to be Campbell's kid? I mean Christ, the kid looks like him and even has the same freaky whiteish-blondeish as he does. I know he was told that Rose miscarried, but the guy should be used to being lied to by now.

5. Why did Snake have to walk through the microwave tunnel? Seriously, other than dramatic effect, there was no reason for him to go in. The Mk. III made it just fine and was the only thing that had to go though the tunnel so it could upload the virus. Other than the possibilty of the Mk. III's range limits, Snake could have sat at the other end taking nap or watching a football match on his Solid Eye or having a cigarette or something other than becoming a walking Hot Pocket. I guess it wouldn't be as heroic, now would it?


6. After fighting Laughing Octopus, Snake fight track where the soliders took Naomi. Ok, I can dig that. A bit of tracking could be some fun. But when in the bloody hell did they have time to set up all of those booby-traps? Some are quick and easy to set up, but they seriously had to put some time into a few of them that they just would not have. For example, one of the sets of fake footprints leads Snake to a shack where a recording of Namoi's voice is saying, "Over here Snake! I'm over here!" or something or other. When did they get the time to record that? And how is it that the soldiers can hear the NV mode on the Solid Eye from a distance of at least 10 metres (about 30 ft) IN THE MIDDLE OF THE JUNGLE WITH BIRDS AND WIND AND RUSTLING BUSHES AND A RIVER ALL BEING AMBIENT NOISE? This is probably just me being picky, but this does irritate me.


Understand that these questions and problems are the ravings of my slightly insane mind and that I don't take them too seriously. If you have the answers to these questions because I am just daft and missed the info somewhere along the line, please feel free to scold me firmly and point out my error.

Or if you have similar questions that just don't add up or make sense to you, please post them here and perhaps we all can find the answers...
 

Jumplion

New member
Mar 10, 2008
7,873
0
0
Some of those questions could be answered with the MGS database downloadable.

All other questions can be answered by Indigo_Dingo or any other valued member of the Escapist.

and most of those questions are just being extremely picky, i just go with the flow and don't ask questions.

The only question i have is Are the Patriots good or bad? That part i'm still not so sure about.

I'll answer 1 and 5 to you.

1. I think that there are different Johnny's through out the game. In the database it said that Johnny was a Russian name passed down by the family and that Akiba (Johnny) was the 4th or 5th son of the Johnny family people...something or other.

5. I could imagine that the distance was a bit too far for the M.K. III, but this was Snakes final battle, he knew it, and unless you were blind there were swarms of little scouter bots in the room so i'm pretty sure Snake was also there for protection. But i still think that was a brilliant scene.
 

Mr. Bubbles

New member
Sep 27, 2007
142
0
0
No such thing as too picky when it comes to the plot. If it's stupid, it's stupid. It may not ruin the story, but that doesn't make it right either.
 

Evil Lawyer

New member
Dec 30, 2007
41
0
0
Actually, it's the same Johnny from MGS and MGS2. The Johnny in MGS3 is his grandfather. Our Johnny even tells Meryl he was in love with her since Shadow Moses, which clearly makes him the same one. Check that helpful database you mentioned, it's there.

I think the Patriots are supposed to be both good and bad. They were founded on the idea of good, but once their power grew it turned into a grey area. After time, the world almost needed them to exsist in order to function as they controlled almost everything. But once Zero shifted the power to the AI's and the war economy began, the Patriots then become truly bad as their affects on mankind were quite harmful. Throughout the series, that question is kinda left to interpretation. If you notice, it's almost always presented as, "here's the plan to bring them down," and someone else says, "but if they are destroyed, this will happen," and the player is pretty much stuck in the middle. MGS4 puts them firmly on the bad guy side by the end, but the other three leave it in limbo.
 

Ultrajoe

Omnichairman
Apr 24, 2008
4,719
0
0
i found out something cool watching the discovery channel recently.

Taipan (a type of highly venomous, very long snake) is literally translated into english as...

"Big Boss"

I love my easter eggs.

Boom de yada, Boom de yada.

ON TOPIC: MGS is better for its plot holes i find, leaves more to the imagination and makes the game universe seem a bigger place.
 

Grampy_bone

New member
Mar 12, 2008
797
0
0
1. It's the same Johnny for every game except 3. If he avoided nano injections he also avoided the big boss gene therepy treatments on Shadow Moses. As for his Taking A Level in Badass, I think it has something to do with exposing his hair.

2. The whole Big Boss revival thing makes no sense. I'm with you there.

3. Rule of Cool.

4. You skipped number 4 you know?

5. The little 3-armed robot drones would have ripped the Mk. III to pieces.

6. How long did the battle take you? She was one of the longer ones for me. Making a tape recording is not a complex, difficult process.
 

Eagle Est1986

That One Guy
Nov 21, 2007
1,976
0
0
2. This one's the easiest to answer, so I'll try to enlighten you. The system that kept Big Boss in that mort state was different to the system that controlled SOP and all that jazz. If you remember, only the DNA was required to control the AIs, this is why Liquid tried to use his own and then Snake's DNA, before going after Big Boss. So when Liquid got hold of what he thought was Big Boss's body all he needed was the DNA so there was no reason why he would have known that it was actually Solidus's (as Solidus was an exact copy of Big Boss, unlike Liquid and Solid). When the body was destroyed, the AI didn't know about it because Solidus's body was never connected to the AI and Big Boss wasn't disconnected at anytime until the AI was destroyed.
 

Jumplion

New member
Mar 10, 2008
7,873
0
0
Ultrajoe said:
i found out something cool watching the discovery channel recently.

Taipan (a type of highly venomous, very long snake) is literally translated into english as...

"Big Boss"

I love my easter eggs.

Boom de yada, Boom de yada.

ON TOPIC: MGS is better for its plot holes i find, leaves more to the imagination and makes the game universe seem a bigger place.
boom de yada, boom de yada, boom de yada, bo....

sorry, but that is a really cool discovery :D i can't wait to tell that to my friend.
 

Evil Lawyer

New member
Dec 30, 2007
41
0
0
Eagle Est1986 said:
2. This one's the easiest to answer, so I'll try to enlighten you. The system that kept Big Boss in that mort state was different to the system that controlled SOP and all that jazz. If you remember, only the DNA was required to control the AIs, this is why Liquid tried to use his own and then Snake's DNA, before going after Big Boss. So when Liquid got hold of what he thought was Big Boss's body all he needed was the DNA so there was no reason why he would have known that it was actually Solidus's (as Solidus was an exact copy of Big Boss, unlike Liquid and Solid). When the body was destroyed, the AI didn't know about it because Solidus's body was never connected to the AI and Big Boss wasn't disconnected at anytime until the AI was destroyed.
Ahh, that makes a bit more sense. Somewhere along the lines I heard the words 'vital stats' and thought of this, but you've cleared that up. Thank you.


Also, I would like to point out that the drones at the end could have just as easily attacked the Mk. III while they were atttacking Snake. There were at least one hundred in that room, and I'm sure five or ten could have easily taken care of the Mk. III. I dismiss the whole drone thing simply because they never really attack the Mk. III. I guess a better question would have been, "why didn't Snake defend the Mk. III from the other end of the tunnel?" but the answers are: It would not have been as awesome as what we saw, and the range of the Mk. III.


Oh, and I seemed to have skipped adding a #4 in the original post...silly me
 

Evil Lawyer

New member
Dec 30, 2007
41
0
0
Grampy_bone said:
6. How long did the battle take you? She was one of the longer ones for me. Making a tape recording is not a complex, difficult process.
Actually, for me this was the quickest boss fight. I guess it's not inconcievable that this whole area could be set up that quickly, as you are correct, it's not that hard to make a tape recording. Maybe I'm just a bit bitter because I thought the whole tracking part was fun, but on the side of a gimmick used to lenghten gameplay time. Still, I would seriously like to know about the NV part of my question, as that is something that does actually frustrate me to the point of caring beyond the rest of these.
 

Lazy Lemon

New member
Mar 24, 2008
144
0
0
I have three serious questions and one trivial, picky one.

Serious question 1: Why does Big Mama say that Liquid Ocelot wants her dead? Is it just because she has Big Boss's body and he needs it?

Serious question 2: Big Mama tells Snake about how she and Ocelot tried to free (revive) Big Boss. She then says that she "lost Ocelot", implying that he had changed sides. But then she says he was fighting for Big Boss because he idolized him. Surely trying to free Big Boss and fighting for Big Boss is the same thing?

Serious Question 3: How did Big Boss know where to find Zero?

Trivial, picky Question: How come Raiden can use his magical ninja suit to summon enough strength to stop a massive super battleship (the predecessor of which managed to plough through Manhattan and crash into Federal Hall) in its tracks, yet he can't manage to move a bit of rubble off his arm and instead ends up chopping it off? Was this just a response to fans labeling him a whining pretty boy in MGS2, to prove that he's as hard as Snake and doesn't mind performing the odd amputation on himself if the situation requires it?
 

Jumplion

New member
Mar 10, 2008
7,873
0
0
Lazy Lemon said:
Trivial, picky Question: How come Raiden can use his magical ninja suit to summon enough strength to stop a massive super battleship (the predecessor of which managed to plough through Manhattan and crash into Federal Hall) in its tracks, yet he can't manage to move a bit of rubble off his arm and instead ends up chopping it off? Was this just a response to fans labeling him a whining pretty boy in MGS2, to prove that he's as hard as Snake and doesn't mind performing the odd amputation on himself if the situation requires it?
Hmmm, this'll be tricky.

Well, Raiden is crushed by metric tons of rocks with almost his entire body covered in rocks. He can't push up because he never had the chance to fight back. The whole ship was.......well......screw it, i have no idea.
 

imPacT31

New member
Mar 19, 2008
142
0
0
Lazy Lemon said:
I have three serious questions and one trivial, picky one.

Serious question 1: Why does Big Mama say that Liquid Ocelot wants her dead? Is it just because she has Big Boss's body and he needs it?

Serious question 2: Big Mama tells Snake about how she and Ocelot tried to free (revive) Big Boss. She then says that she "lost Ocelot", implying that he had changed sides. But then she says he was fighting for Big Boss because he idolized him. Surely trying to free Big Boss and fighting for Big Boss is the same thing?

Serious Question 3: How did Big Boss know where to find Zero?
Both of these quotes are from a time when Big Mama is avoiding telling Snake that Ocelot is willingly acting as Liquid's "doppelgänger". It isn't until the end of the game that it becomes apparent that the Liquid persona was masking Ocelot's true intentions.

For this reason Snake has to be made to believe that Liquid wants her dead, which the persona does, and that Ocelot is no longer following their plans. This is all required to keep their plot against the Patriots intricacies secret, even from Snake.

3. According to the MGS database the destruction of JD meant that "the location of Zero, the brains behind the Patriots, was revealed".

As for Raiden, I have absolutely no idea. One friend of mine pointed out another problem with that scene: Raiden severs his arm and dislocates the other to help free himself, but what does he do about his legs?
 

Lazy Lemon

New member
Mar 24, 2008
144
0
0
@imPacT31
Thanks, that answers most of my questions . But still, I don't get why Big Mama says that Ocelot changed sides, and then contradicts herself immediately by saying he was fighting for Big Boss. It just seems like a mistake in the script to me.
 

apmpnmdslkbk

New member
Jun 30, 2008
360
0
0
Jumplion said:
Ultrajoe said:
i found out something cool watching the discovery channel recently.

Taipan (a type of highly venomous, very long snake) is literally translated into english as...

"Big Boss"

I love my easter eggs.

Boom de yada, Boom de yada.

ON TOPIC: MGS is better for its plot holes i find, leaves more to the imagination and makes the game universe seem a bigger place.
boom de yada, boom de yada, boom de yada, bo....

sorry, but that is a really cool discovery :D i can't wait to tell that to my friend.
well heres a dicovery solid snake is an auntondra for hard erection
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

New member
Dec 20, 2007
3,775
0
0
After finishing this series and then everything had to be piled together at the end to make sure it's a big happy ending so that Kojima would get no e-mails saying "OMG WHY DID RAIDEN DIE?!?! HE WAS SO COOL!" - that I just said "fuck it" - THIS is how the story is.

Patriots CONTROL FUCKING EVERYTHING, and in order for people to kill the AI's they lied to hide their intentions and then boom, we killed the patriots, and now everyone is happy - and long live Snake...however long that "live" shall be.

Now bring on that Zanzibarland remake!