MGS3... The strength of having a gay villian? (Is Volgin a POSITIVE gay male role model?) EDITED
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No he is not.
The only reason Volgin swings both ways is not because he's necessarily attracted to both women and men, but because he'll fuck anyone he can. It's how he dominates himself over others, to prove he's stronger than they are. He treats all his 'lovers' as sex slaves.
I don't know if it's something rooted in feudal Japan, but the character of Gemma from Ninja Scroll was the same.
The only reason Volgin swings both ways is not because he's necessarily attracted to both women and men, but because he'll fuck anyone he can. It's how he dominates himself over others, to prove he's stronger than they are. He treats all his 'lovers' as sex slaves.
I don't know if it's something rooted in feudal Japan, but the character of Gemma from Ninja Scroll was the same.
I'd say he is, the stereotypical gay guy is basically Louie Spence. It's cool that instead of just making the over aggressive sadist straight, they took the time to say "instead of making him a macho brute, lets add a little depth by making him gay".
Ok, I make it sound like short cut to depth is to just make people gay but I think the trade off with just how aggressive he is makes it good.
Plus, it also has that thing that ME3 had ... it treats it as a none issue, you just assume he is straight and then learn late on he has a thing with Raikov.
Ok, I make it sound like short cut to depth is to just make people gay but I think the trade off with just how aggressive he is makes it good.
Plus, it also has that thing that ME3 had ... it treats it as a none issue, you just assume he is straight and then learn late on he has a thing with Raikov.
In a very warped way I actually think it might be. They're using none of that normal clueing Bss where his gayness is meant to signify his evilness, nor is he playing up stereotypes nor is it made a big deal of.
The area where it could be bad is that it's playing up Volgin's sexual aggressiveness and it's possible that it was meant to be another signifier of that 'Oh look how much of a freak he is'. The reason it's hard to tell if that's what the game is doing or not is the game has always had a warped attitude to sexuality and most of the hetero relationships are just as screwed up
The area where it could be bad is that it's playing up Volgin's sexual aggressiveness and it's possible that it was meant to be another signifier of that 'Oh look how much of a freak he is'. The reason it's hard to tell if that's what the game is doing or not is the game has always had a warped attitude to sexuality and most of the hetero relationships are just as screwed up
I don't think Volgin was conscious about the fact he was gay. I think he just does what he wants and enjoys. He stated he liked EVA in a sexual way and both of those relationships are heavily dominated by Volgin. The main difference is how Volgin and Raikov react on Volgin. Raikov loves it uses his place to torture other soldiers. EVA hates it and has a more violence relationship with Volgin. Their gender is irrelevant to Volgin. He is a sadistic monster who enjoys sex, violence and murder, doesn't matter who.
I always thought he was bi, considering he regularly gropes Eva and is implied to be sleeping with her as well.
I don't think he's a postive role model for anyone.
He uses power to dominate people, and when that doesn't work, he uses pain to force people into submission.
Not exactly a healthy social attitude.
He uses power to dominate people, and when that doesn't work, he uses pain to force people into submission.
Not exactly a healthy social attitude.
The depraved homosexual has been a trope for the last 30 or so years. You'll forgive me if I don't see how using that for one of the two homosexual characters, while the other is the effeminate kind (Raikov), is in any way a positive portrayal.
Wait, the sadistic psychopath who expresses his sexuality through violent domination with plenty of rapey vibes and is in every way a seriously depraved character is a positive role model?
Just because Volgin is not a prancing fop or played for comedy does not mean he's to be admired or in any way emulated.
In fact, I don't feel any character in the series is really a good role model of anything. One of the running themes in Metal Gear is that war destroys people, both mentally and physically. Those that don't die end up thoroughly messed up individuals incapable of functioning in normal society and forming healthy relationships, as evidenced by pretty much every character in the series. Even the heroic characters only look awesome because they are almost exclusively shown in the only context in which they can work.
Just because Volgin is not a prancing fop or played for comedy does not mean he's to be admired or in any way emulated.
In fact, I don't feel any character in the series is really a good role model of anything. One of the running themes in Metal Gear is that war destroys people, both mentally and physically. Those that don't die end up thoroughly messed up individuals incapable of functioning in normal society and forming healthy relationships, as evidenced by pretty much every character in the series. Even the heroic characters only look awesome because they are almost exclusively shown in the only context in which they can work.
The part which is positive is that the fact that he swings both ways sexually is never played up as his defining characteristic, its merely a side note, far eclipsed by his sadism which truly defines Volgin.
Trevor from GTAV is similiar, in that he is referenced to have fucked dudes from time to time, but its not made a big deal of and just part of his overall character.
To me that is a positive step, in that characters sexual orientation aren't their singular and defining aspect but merely part of their character as a whole.
Trevor from GTAV is similiar, in that he is referenced to have fucked dudes from time to time, but its not made a big deal of and just part of his overall character.
To me that is a positive step, in that characters sexual orientation aren't their singular and defining aspect but merely part of their character as a whole.
I'm not quite sure how he can be considered that. I mean, he seems to get his rocks off by electrocuting people, and while there are plenty of people who do that with consenting partners IRL, he seems to be more concerned with doing to people who don't want it. Like someone else has said, he's less homosexual and more bisexual, and the Deprived Bisexual has been done before, heck, Trevor from GTA V was like that. When he said he was going to fuck Johnny, I honestly thought he was. Not exactly homophobic, but he sure as hell ain't a role model.
There might be some merit to the argument that in addition to physical attraction (which does extend to, for example, EVA too), he has a rare kind of emotional attachment to Raikov (like how he gets mad at Snake for silencing Raikov and taking his uniform).
Despite that, as said in this thread before, he might be a "role model" solely based on how he finds some small redeeming kind of love and affection for Raikov, but in every other respect, he's despicable and majorly bent on dominating others (including the aforementioned). All in all, I don't think you should overall take a person as a role model based on one, very narrow personality trait. There are better homosexual role models who are actually positive, as opposed to a despicable character who finds a tiny bit of redemption in a gay "lover".
Despite that, as said in this thread before, he might be a "role model" solely based on how he finds some small redeeming kind of love and affection for Raikov, but in every other respect, he's despicable and majorly bent on dominating others (including the aforementioned). All in all, I don't think you should overall take a person as a role model based on one, very narrow personality trait. There are better homosexual role models who are actually positive, as opposed to a despicable character who finds a tiny bit of redemption in a gay "lover".
Volgin is driven by greed, extreme nationalism and psychotic lust to consolidate power. His sadistic nature is used to sate his lust to that end by using his strength, money and ability to dominate others, which we see in the story. He kills, tortures and, less we forget, nukes his own people.
Even if his involvement with Raikov was consensual (dare anyone can say "beautiful"), when we see "them" together what's the first thing he does? Grabs him by the nads and squeezes; sexual assault. He's not benevolent; his actions are power plays. There's reason to believe he was a rapist.
Yet how can you say his sexuality is "completely independent" of his actions while judging him as a gay person? Nothing he did had anything to do with his sexuality, so the only point I can see being made is that a mass-murdering, sadistic, twisted psychopath bent on world domination doesn't mean that he's a bad role model for male homosexuals. In fact, Volgin is a real inspiration; more writers and artists should start showing alpha villain gay men...
Ok, all that insanely evil stuff that defined him aside, he's not your typecast "fairy homosexual". Point made.
I'm not sorry for saying that if this unglued lunatic who gets off on abuse and forces a man to make him a tank that can fire a nuclear missile from any strip of land on earth is seen as a "positive role model" for anyone they're either demented or sadly desperate for examples.
Surely we can't let race, religion, gender or sexuality define a person; we're all human on the inside and shouldn't be using such attributes to change how we think of people. I wouldn't have thought so either, but here we are.
Even if his involvement with Raikov was consensual (dare anyone can say "beautiful"), when we see "them" together what's the first thing he does? Grabs him by the nads and squeezes; sexual assault. He's not benevolent; his actions are power plays. There's reason to believe he was a rapist.
Yet how can you say his sexuality is "completely independent" of his actions while judging him as a gay person? Nothing he did had anything to do with his sexuality, so the only point I can see being made is that a mass-murdering, sadistic, twisted psychopath bent on world domination doesn't mean that he's a bad role model for male homosexuals. In fact, Volgin is a real inspiration; more writers and artists should start showing alpha villain gay men...
Ok, all that insanely evil stuff that defined him aside, he's not your typecast "fairy homosexual". Point made.
I'm not sorry for saying that if this unglued lunatic who gets off on abuse and forces a man to make him a tank that can fire a nuclear missile from any strip of land on earth is seen as a "positive role model" for anyone they're either demented or sadly desperate for examples.
Surely we can't let race, religion, gender or sexuality define a person; we're all human on the inside and shouldn't be using such attributes to change how we think of people. I wouldn't have thought so either, but here we are.
Oh, for sure. I am not saying that Volgin is a bad character, because I think he fits perfectly into the gallery of crazy personas on show in Snake Eater (super-old sniper looking for a worthy duel, cocky gunslinging officer who gets a mancrush on the hero, a guy who has a masochistic fascination with bees etc.). But to pretend that he's a positive representation of a LGBT-character is really pushing it.Captain Noobtits said:
Granted I was fairly drunk making the initial post, so allow me to clarify.AgedGrunt said:
So I look at Volgin, now I don't think Volgin is Bi. He's a sadist, he doesn't find Eva sexually attractive he just likes brutalizing her and he has no qualms about killing her either. I state again, Eva is scarred to shit by Volgin but we see Raikov and there isn't a scratch on him.
Now yeah, lets look at how he treats Raikov. Yes the first thing he grabs for is his junk, well obviously this fits in Volgin's character. Dominant macho male. He's not going to express his emotions, though for a guy that was just stood up he's fairly even keeled for the brute we know he is. He just sort of casually remarks "I was expecting you in my room."
But heres the thing, in the fight with Volgin, wearing the Raikov mask causes him to freeze up. So I would submit, Volgin is gay and Raikov was spared the most of sadistic tendencys... And frankly the fact that sadistic son of a ***** actually can have feelings for someone potentially is sweet in a warped sort of way.
Now the majority of the time I see gay characters in any work of fiction their always this faye pansy foppish silly fairy, take your pick. I'm really frankly sick of it, so seeing a character like Volgin- who's still a villain- but portrayed as this walking badass cool character IS a total breath of fresh air. And when I say role model, well how many LGBT teens grow up thinking that say, well they can't be an MMA fighting because queer folk aren't shown doing that?
My suggestion is a great stretch of the word role model, admittedly. Was drunk after all, however I still would maintain the character introduces some positive ideas.
Actually sexuality is an underlying theme in the whole work of MGS3.Captain Noobtits said:
From Naked Snakes name to when he first meets Eva, I mean Naked Snake is clearly uncomfortable around her and actually doesn't know how to behave around a woman. He said so himself, he's never been interested in anybody elses life. Even during their first meeting, she sits next to him and he turns away.
This of course leads to a really funny scene where she hands Snake a gun and he obsesses over it like a Star Trek nerd being handed a phazer.
Though a point is brought up that isn't the first LGBT villain the MGS series has had, if we bring up Vamp... who we could argue is more perverse (He was Fortune's love as well as Fortune's father)... And in terms of sexual themes, theres Otacon. Then theres Otacon.