Honestly the word gamer has nothing to do with video-games. The word came out in 1630 and only recently has been adopted by people who play them. In any case I don't see why you'd give a shit, just ignore their marketing and continue with your daily life.
Microsoft is waging a culture war against gamers, or why I won't call myself "gamer" anymore.
- Thread starter timboo_drow
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In the end, I will refer to myself as what ever I want. I could not care less about what microsoft aims to do with their culture war or whatever. That is thinking way to far into it IMO, but I am not the analytical type. When speaking to non-"gaming" people I call myself a gamer, but when discussing games with other enthusiasts, there is no need. It is a given.
It isn't for much of anyone outside of gaming either.omegaweopon said:
Without games, it's just an overpriced Blu-Ray player that can surf facebook.
Well, this is just the big companies' convenience and ignorance once again. They want to quantify everything, and in doing so, define what a "super hardcore gamer" is which they think is, in terms of money.
But it has always been in terms of money. Developer costs, publishing costs, the new console, that's just the reality of this business. This time, it's irresponsible representation and at worst stereotyping. No one gamer have similar spending habits and just because you're a hardcore gamer doesn't mean you give into horrible sells or bad products.
In the end, microsoft will look back to this PR debacle and know that they should have at least shut up. This is what happens when you bring collars into a environment which requires shirts and shorts. It's just plain mismatch of approach. A 20 year old collage undergraduate which plays video games regularly would've done less damage in the PR front.
But it has always been in terms of money. Developer costs, publishing costs, the new console, that's just the reality of this business. This time, it's irresponsible representation and at worst stereotyping. No one gamer have similar spending habits and just because you're a hardcore gamer doesn't mean you give into horrible sells or bad products.
In the end, microsoft will look back to this PR debacle and know that they should have at least shut up. This is what happens when you bring collars into a environment which requires shirts and shorts. It's just plain mismatch of approach. A 20 year old collage undergraduate which plays video games regularly would've done less damage in the PR front.
A "Gamer" is someone who not only plays games, but loves games. The core philosophy of the XBox One is not one that expresses a love of games, but a love of publishers and a love of money. All true gamers know that tying the hands of honest consumers with one-time codes, online passes, and other strict DRM is absolutely not the way to handle the problem of piracy. Publishers however, due I think mostly to fear, seem to believe otherwise. They look for every possible way they could lose money, and try desperately to seal the cracks.
Imagine that they're on a boat, which is leaking. They find a crack, and fill it with tar. Soon, the water that can no longer go through that crack finds a new way in, they then fill that in. If this continues, you have a boat made entirely of tar. Obviously, this is a contrived metaphor, but a boat made of tar wouldn't be very usable, just as software surrounded with restrictions and DRM isn't very usable.
If you'll recall, this same kind of thing was starting to happen with the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) here in the US about 10 years ago. People were talking about limiting the number of times you could burn a disc, or copy a song. Notice that today, very little of that has stuck around, and yet somehow the record companies stay afloat. Instead of trying to seal every crack, they realized it was best to just accept one or two, grab a metaphorical bucket and bail out the incoming metaphorical water.
If Microsoft cared about loyal consumers, or about the game industry as a whole, they would be using their sway in the industry to try and keep publishers from jumping to the same schemes that didn't work in other entertainment industries, but instead they take the easy road, and cave to every crazy scheme publishers keep coming up with.
Imagine that they're on a boat, which is leaking. They find a crack, and fill it with tar. Soon, the water that can no longer go through that crack finds a new way in, they then fill that in. If this continues, you have a boat made entirely of tar. Obviously, this is a contrived metaphor, but a boat made of tar wouldn't be very usable, just as software surrounded with restrictions and DRM isn't very usable.
If you'll recall, this same kind of thing was starting to happen with the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) here in the US about 10 years ago. People were talking about limiting the number of times you could burn a disc, or copy a song. Notice that today, very little of that has stuck around, and yet somehow the record companies stay afloat. Instead of trying to seal every crack, they realized it was best to just accept one or two, grab a metaphorical bucket and bail out the incoming metaphorical water.
If Microsoft cared about loyal consumers, or about the game industry as a whole, they would be using their sway in the industry to try and keep publishers from jumping to the same schemes that didn't work in other entertainment industries, but instead they take the easy road, and cave to every crazy scheme publishers keep coming up with.
Reading your title made me immediately think "Bill O'Reilly??"timboo_drow said:
But seriously, I agree with some of the others and say that I honestly think the best course of action is to simply ignore all their attempts to "market" to us, and simply continue to purchase other quality products whose sales go to people that deserve it.
The term "gamer" is old and archaic to me, but I understand why some people want to hold on to it, so by all means, show them what a "gamer" actually looks for in the game market, for it is definitely not the half-assed, delusional marketing pushes by Microsoft.
You're arguing for a standard that I don't think actually exists across all industries, only in ones where customers have a reputation for being suckers. The food industry comes to mind as being a consumer driven industry, case-in-point "new Coke". Coca-Cola released a new formula for their popular drink and tried to convince everyone that it is what they wanted, and it failed big time, and it was discontinued. If Coca-Cola behaved like MS, new Coke would still be a thing, and they would sell it to you by giving you no other option. You would have to switch to Pepsi to get the products you want, assuming they weren't behaving the same way as Coca-Cola.Lilani said:
What people expected from Coke was simple and well defined. What people expect from consoles is ambiguous at best, and at worst a complete mystery. You didn't have to go on certain web sites or read certain blogs to hear about how shit New Coke was. You just had to taste it and be like "What's this shit?" You don't expect a soda to change, it's just there.timboo_drow said:
Consoles change all the time. Features come and go. They're like cars--there's so much hype and marketing and technobabble even the well-informed have trouble getting their head around exactly what they're buying. By the time the average consumer understands a fraction of what this year's models have, next year's models are already appearing in TV commercials. Most people who own 360s don't give a shit about what it did wrong compared to the Xbox, just as most people who own a PS3 don't give a shit about what it did wrong compared to the PS2. Not having backwards compatibility is a universally despised trait both of these consoles have in common, and both came out just fine. Sure the Wii beat them both, but it didn't have backwards compatibility either.
You know what it's doing wrong, and you know why you don't want to buy it, but meanwhile the average 360 owner will see the X-Bone at E3 and just shrug. They don't care. They never have, they certainly won't now, and that's why Microsoft will still make money.
lol. Isn't it a little pedantic to completely ignore the modern vernacular and focus instead on what a word meant almost 400 years ago?Bullfrog1983 said:
you could do that with any word and get the same insane results as your brain seems to be focusing on.
Well I still prefer the term 'gamer', as meaning someone to whom gaming is an important activity and who has enough sense to choose what consoles and games they are going to buy based on their merits, and does not appreciate being screwed out of consumer rights with arbitrary features. If anything, Microsoft attempting to manipulate 'gamers' by presenting the Xbone as a test of faith is cause to stick more strongly to the term, to show how vastly they have misinterpreted what it means.
But that said, if they're trying to appeal to 'hardcore gamers', that's already the playerbase of the 360, but I still don't think they're going about it the right way if what they want to do is make a console that will test the resolve of 360 owners. I honestly think they're just trying to sneak in a few features now for their own benefit and hope people don't notice because the console itself is solid, except that those few features are all anyone talks about.
But that said, if they're trying to appeal to 'hardcore gamers', that's already the playerbase of the 360, but I still don't think they're going about it the right way if what they want to do is make a console that will test the resolve of 360 owners. I honestly think they're just trying to sneak in a few features now for their own benefit and hope people don't notice because the console itself is solid, except that those few features are all anyone talks about.
I think you just helped me establish the idea that some industries are more consumer driven than others; they don't all operate like MS. That being said, MS could try being a bit more consumer driven and they may find the approach to be wildly rewarding. I'm sad to say too, that it would be oddly refreshing. I certainly do agree with you that most businesses operate the way MS is, though this is an egregious example.Lilani said:
I also think that a grassroots movement from fed-up consumers can help implement change. Can you honestly say that all the negative commentary on forums, twitter, and facebook is not going to have a negative effect on XBOX one sales?
Some are consumer driven, but that doesn't mean there isn't extremely manipulative marketing going on, and that certainly doesn't mean you've proven Microsoft is as consumer-driven as Coca-Cola. Coke is only consumer driven because of the type of product it produces. Microsoft produces a completely different product that operates under a completely different set of rules. The point you've proven is moot in regard to the overall point you're trying to make.timboo_drow said:
As for how it will affect their sales, gamers are notorious for not putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to boycotts. Games that are received with absolute and unfiltered outrage from the gaming community remain successful, and boycotts fail in the most hilarious [http://dbzer0.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Boycott-Modern-Warfare-2.jpg] ways. Even Diablo 3 has a substantial player base and is making money. SimCity may or may not be in the black right now (haven't researched it, really) but even if it isn't doing well it is statistically the exception rather than the rule. We do a lot of blustering, but in the end it seems we only desire two things: games, and something to play them on. The X-bone will get some enticing exclusives, and current 360 owners will see the change as inevitable and just upgrade withot question. Those boycotts will only affect those who are listening, and most people who currently own 360s aren't listening. They don't care. They are the majority of console owners. The "gaming community" is a minority among gamers, at least the community as we see it. Most "gamers" aren't as plugged-in as we are, just as most car owners aren't as fluent in car as Jeremy Clarkson.
People should vote with their wallet and not buy what they don't agree with for sure, but I don't anticipate it'll damage the X-bone sales enough to make it a "failure." At least not a failure anywhere near the level of New Coke. If anything brings down the X-bone, it'll be the amount of people who are literally unable to use it because they lack connectivity. It won't be anything voluntary like a boycott, it'll be something people were forced into. That's the only thing that'll stop the uninformed consumer from just buying the next big console--being completely unable to.
That's not how I read those quotes at all:
Backwards compatibility is allegedly something used by only 5% of gamers. Therefore they've decided it's not a useful service to spend time on. Or they consider the service backwards... I don't think it was said with the intention of insulting people who play older games....
Every Xbone user has a broadband connection. Will be true if using an Xbone requires a broadband connection...
Super core guys will buy everything. I thought that meant that they would buy all the consoles of this gen, as some people do... Whether you want to call that super core or something that sounds a bit less wanky is up to you, but I didn't read that as anyone that considers themselves a gamer will get an Xbone. I certainly don't think that gamer is going to used exclusively for persons who buy an Xbone on day 1...
Backwards compatibility is allegedly something used by only 5% of gamers. Therefore they've decided it's not a useful service to spend time on. Or they consider the service backwards... I don't think it was said with the intention of insulting people who play older games....
Every Xbone user has a broadband connection. Will be true if using an Xbone requires a broadband connection...
Super core guys will buy everything. I thought that meant that they would buy all the consoles of this gen, as some people do... Whether you want to call that super core or something that sounds a bit less wanky is up to you, but I didn't read that as anyone that considers themselves a gamer will get an Xbone. I certainly don't think that gamer is going to used exclusively for persons who buy an Xbone on day 1...
Paperboy What Microsoft is trying do is copy what Apple is doing with games for IOS . Well these work fine for light games for your average non gamer .But real gamers and hardcore gamers what real games not IOS games for ipad.So this will not work.
Other thing is alot of companies are doing now is pushing multiplayer online games like world Warcraft because of more profits.
Other thing is alot of companies are doing now is pushing multiplayer online games like world Warcraft because of more profits.
Weeeeeelllll Microsoft can go bugger themselves with a rusty iron rod for what it's worth. They will only change the meaning of the word 'gamer' if you let them by saying that you won't call yourself one because MS decided on a new meaning.
A little bit off topic: What's even more stupid about the Xbone is that they could have made it appeal to actual gamers, and the target customer that they are aiming for now would still buy it. It's current target is everyone who buys it because it's a new console, not because if anything it does. If it was a decent machine for gamers, gamers would by it and the 'everyman' as I have seen them refered to on this thread would still buy it, so MS have gained no new sales, just lost a load.
I do sincerely apogolise about my frankly appalling writing/coherency/grammar/spelling/sense-making here, but I have been travelling and it is 1:37 and I am tired good night everyone.
A little bit off topic: What's even more stupid about the Xbone is that they could have made it appeal to actual gamers, and the target customer that they are aiming for now would still buy it. It's current target is everyone who buys it because it's a new console, not because if anything it does. If it was a decent machine for gamers, gamers would by it and the 'everyman' as I have seen them refered to on this thread would still buy it, so MS have gained no new sales, just lost a load.
I do sincerely apogolise about my frankly appalling writing/coherency/grammar/spelling/sense-making here, but I have been travelling and it is 1:37 and I am tired good night everyone.
Until I see physical evidence and clear examples of the workings of X-Box One, presented to us without constant backstepping and sidestepping and maybes, I cannot pass judgement on it.
At the same time, I sure as hell am not pre-ordering the product. They've lost my desire to even try.
At the same time, I sure as hell am not pre-ordering the product. They've lost my desire to even try.