Microsoft: No New Xbox in 2012

[Treblaine]

I think a more pertinent question: what could you possibly want in a New Xbox Iteration?

I mean, the Xbox 360 controller hardly pushed the boundaries, it is essentially a Playstation 1 Dual Shock controller from 1998 just a bit of re-jiggered ergonomics, wireless and with trigger shoulder buttons. The only real improvement over that (other than FPS-freek peripherals) is a mouse + keyboard setup but:
1) you don't need a new console for that, just a firmware update
2) console gamers don't care for that, they are totally fine with thumbstick aiming.

And what is REALLY holding their big sellers back? COD is hitting 60fps consistently which is the maximum framerate of most HD Screens (refresh at 60Hz) and it does that with a low native resolution around 1040x600 pixel, but are people REALLY demanding full 1080p? You can only actually appreciate that detail by sitting either very close to your screen or by having a HUMONGOUS SCREEN (where either way each pixel is apparently larger).

So really I don't see the room for improvement.

PC games have been luring console gamers with WAY better graphics for so long now and console gamers simply are not bighting, I don't think there even is a real demand for more potent hardware.

I think any new Xbox is a LONG way off. I would be surprised to go all through 2013 with no new Xbox either.

I always laugh when I read this argument.

"Console gamers dont want or need way better graphics. Thats why developers are constantly increasing the size of weapon models and just generally getting up to all kinds of trickery so they can squeeze a minimal bit of power out of the strained console to make room for better graphics. Because console gamers dont want better looking games."

Yeah, no, thats bullshit.

OT: Well fuck that. Its about time they role out the new consoles.

Call of Duty series' graphics have stagnated since Modern Warfare 2 and it has only sold LARGER numbers and the biggest selling game on both PS3 and 360 isn't close to the best in graphics. MW3 in was looks worse than MW2 yet it's sold in only 11 weeks 23 million copies on consoles alone.

I've tried to convince so many console gamers to PC gaming with the lure of DX11 graphics and they don't give a crap, they say it's close enough to the DX9-like Xbox 360 standard that they don't see it worth neither the time, money nor effort. There is tepid to no-buzz about the Wii-U being more powerful, people are most concerned about the controller and Nintendo's practices in general. Look at the interviews with Reggie, they press him more on how the online network will be than how powerful it will be.

Minecraft has been the runaway hit with some of the most basic graphics of any game released in the past 20 years. TF2 is the most lucrative and well known multiplayer PC game and it has very abstract non-realism graphics. The most popular multiplayer game on Steam is still Counterstrike.

Games like Bodycount that have gorgeous graphics fail miserably as they completely failed to deliver on gameplay. Final Fantasy 13, again going for gorgeous cutting-edge graphics but it gets panned and ignored for bad pacing, the graphics couldn't save it (though brand loyalty could preserve it). Similar extent with id software's RAGE. Graphics can't sell a game any more, it has to be gameplay.

Publishers tend to aim for best graphics because that is a tangible goal, it's easy to put your work side by side with the competition and say "yep, we're doing good here" in terms of graphical fidelity. But saying you have better gameplay, well that is far more subjective and until you have everything in place you don't know if you are going at all in the right direction. It's also so risky. Uncharted, wonderful graphics yet Uncharted 3 has only sold around 3 million units compared to about 5 million of Gears of War 3.

Look, I'm not saying Xbox 360 will be the last console ever released to the public. I'm just saying there won't be a new one until there is a significantly large demand for better graphics.

Now Microsoft/Sony COULD release a new 1080p console but if there is low demand for it and few buy it then they will lose a lot of money building chipsets earlier when they are more expensive only for boxes to sit on shelves depreciating. A new console they have to go all in and set it off the a swinging start, they must very quickly get over the hump of having a small install-base that limits multiplayer, and marketability by third parties.

Well now you are straight up twisting my words. I never said graphics are the only thing that matters, so the success of Minecraft is irrelevant.

The thing about PC gaming, DX11, and all that fancy stuff is that in order to use it you need to know your way around a PC and an OP. The vast majority of console gamers dont, simple as that. These people dont want to switch to PC gaming because the very prospect of installing a driver confuses them. Just look at the success Apple have had. You know whats at the core of Apples success? Not hype, not Jobs, no, Apple is successful because using their devices is about as tricky as using a toaster. You press a button, either it works, or it doesnt work. On a PC, thats a very different story. Things work, but you have to do a lot of stuff to get there. Thats whats holding people away from PC gaming.

And you know what? That is perfectly fine. Some people just want to insert a disc and play, and who am I to judge? But you cant turn that into "They dont want/need better graphics".

Mark my words, when the new console generation comes around, people will be crying about it, saying they dont want them and they dont want to spend the money. And once they are out, people will not want to live without them.

I have not twisted your words.

Please state where you think I have twisted your words. Or else you are just saying bad things about me.

I didn't say they were turned off by the assembly problem, I'm saying the graphics themselves don't even make them stop to consider it. It's not a case of "Wow, PC graphics are so great, and the better controls... only I can't stand all the hardware complexity". Working in an internet cafe and computer/console repair shop the overwhelming stance of console gamers is apathy towards what benefits PC gaming offers. They don't want improved controls, they love gamepad as is.

Yeah, the hardware installation/drivers/etc is somewhat of a turn off but it never even gets that far as they are so comfortable with the Xbox 360 status quo of graphics and controls.

Thing is PC gamers love Apple-like simplicity just as much. PC gamers hate DRM juggling and bemoan Driver issues. Steam is joyous because it is even simpler than put in disk and launch game it is just... launch game. The patches are automatically loaded as soon as possible, not just as you start trying to play. Auto cloud save syncing.

"Mark my words, when the new console generation comes around, people will be crying about it, saying they dont want them and they dont want to spend the money. And once they are out, people will not want to live without them."

That is likely very true but look at this from perspective of microsoft... if their customers are happy and handing over money still, why risk moving into full production with a next gen console? Why not leave R&D as long as possible to refine the best performance to price.

Sure, Microsft or Sony could force through a new generation by why bother? They are doing so good staying the current course.

 

[Treblaine]

I have not twisted your words.

Please state where you think I have twisted your words. Or else you are just saying bad things about me.

I didn't say they were turned off by the assembly problem, I'm saying the graphics themselves don't even make them stop to consider it. It's not a case of "Wow, PC graphics are so great, and the better controls... only I can't stand all the hardware complexity". Working in an internet cafe and computer/console repair shop the overwhelming stance of console gamers is apathy towards what benefits PC gaming offers. They don't want improved controls, they love gamepad as is.

Yeah, the hardware installation/drivers/etc is somewhat of a turn off but it never even gets that far as they are so comfortable with the Xbox 360 status quo of graphics and controls.

Thing is PC gamers love Apple-like simplicity just as much. PC gamers hate DRM juggling and bemoan Driver issues. Steam is joyous because it is even simpler than put in disk and launch game it is just... launch game. The patches are automatically loaded as soon as possible, not just as you start trying to play. Auto cloud save syncing.

"Mark my words, when the new console generation comes around, people will be crying about it, saying they dont want them and they dont want to spend the money. And once they are out, people will not want to live without them."

That is likely very true but look at this from perspective of microsoft... if their customers are happy and handing over money still, why risk moving into full production with a next gen console? Why not leave R&D as long as possible to refine the best performance to price.

Sure, Microsft or Sony could force through a new generation by why bother? They are doing so good staying the current course.

Thing is PC gamers love Apple-like simplicity just as much. PC gamers hate DRM juggling and bemoan Driver issues. Steam is joyous because it is even simpler than put in disk and launch game it is just... launch game. The patches are automatically loaded as soon as possible, not just as you start trying to play. Auto cloud save syncing.

Thats simply not true. The vast majority of PC gamers love mods and modding. Mods are far from straight forward. Why would they go through the ordeals of installing them and watching out for compatibility issues and the likes if they just want shit to work?

Sure, Microsft or Sony could force through a new generation by why bother? They are doing so good staying the current course.

Actually, they are not. Microsoft only just started turning a profit on the 360 a few months back. Sony still havent made a profit on their PS3. The current generation has been something of a disaster for both MS and Sony. From Bluray to online, its been a clusterfuck. I dont think this will stop either company from bringing out a new console, its more likely to stop them from making any more entirely. Just dropping out.

This discussion is pointless anyway. If MS and Sony want to keep any small portion of the market, they will have to bring out new consoles soon. Why? Because of the WiiU. As soon as gamers see those shiny new graphics and hardcore titles, without the prospect of getting the same from MS or Sony, they will be off, never to be seen again.

Whoa whoa whoa!

Modding, control and customisability don't have to be at odds with a well designed and straightforward installation and execution process. Mods aren't liked for their difficulty, their difficulty is tolerated because it is worth it. Far better for when things go without a hitch.

"Microsoft only just started turning a profit on the 360 a few months back. Sony still havent made a profit on their PS3."

Isn't that a huge reason NOT to move to the next generation? They have invested so much into this gen and ONLY NOW is it beginning to pay off!

"its more likely to stop them from making any more (consoles) entirely."

The stock-holders don't agree with you and they have put a LOT of money where their mouth is and are in the business of knowing about these sorts of things. Sounds like baseless hyperbole.

Also, you assert blindly that people will flock to WiiU graphics to spite the fact we have ALREADY BEEN SHOWN those graphics and the buzz is miniscule, and I said that already and you just ignored it, obvious in how what you said contradicts what I've already pointed out. No one is talking about pre-orders and there is virtually no forum coverage. The big hitters like CoD developers have shown no interests in the system.

Of course eventually is a long time but even if the Wii U gets released in 2012 it's fundamentally held back just by the controls and third party disinterest. I mean Wii-U's controls, those thumb-sliders (no click down). For something like Black Ops that means no quick sprint and no quick melee, a step BACK. The touchscreen is a low resolution resistive touchscreen, that means absolutely no possibility of multitouch. It's even pushing the use of a stylus... in 2012.

Also you have to realise what a poor position nintendo is to actually make a system that is more powerful than 360 without becoming insanely expensive or unprofitable. See the Wii is WAAAAY less powerful than xbox 360 yet it's price is not an equivalent fraction of Xbox 360 proportional to capability. The reason for this is the strong Yen. Nintendo making a console exactly as powerful and capable as an Xbox 360 would cost them more to make and once it gets to their company account they will make less selling it for the same price!

Nintendo should be selling the current Wii at more like $99 rather than $180 but they can't as then they would be making a loss on every system. Yet the Xbox 360 is able to sell at a profit at price of around $190 to spite being about 10x as powerful.

Nintendo are not going to be competing with Microsoft or Sony in graphics. They're in no position to.