Microsoft to release tool to make griefing easier!

[Atmos Duality]

The moderators make the final call in only the cases that involve a perm ban. In all other instances- it's entirely automated.
And to give an alternate opinion on The League Tribunal- it is absolutely the worst rep system I've ever seen or been a part of. You can get suspended for days or even weeks without even breaking a single rule. To give an example: A person recently got banned because he was playing Mordekaiser as a jungler.
More info: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35658688

Agreed. Tribunal is the worst I've seen, logically and why I stick to casual play with my friends.

Just casually reading through shows how flawed their system is in relying on a largely toxic community.
Every post asking logical questions was downvoted, while every Riot post was brown-nosed into double-digit upvotes, minimum.
Even when presented with broken logic; Lyte's (Riot) argument for the decision was nothing more than a big strawman; babbling uselessly about report-rates and "insight".

Curiously, DOTA2 had a rash of similar problems this last year, where players could just report lock you into low-priority queue without any means of appeal. There is no context for the system; it's just an automated tally.

If that's the sort of system Microsoft wants to implement...well, good luck with that.

 

[Cabisco]

snip

Firstly on an unrelated matter you made me paw at my screen like a cat because of your damned avatar!

And looking at my current reputation on Xbox live I believe it's something close to 80% of people avoided me compared to only 20% said nice things or nothing. It looks damned likely i'm going to troll hell with that kind of record but to be honest nearly all my friends have similar scores. Apart from the terrible ones... it actually seems the better you are the more you're avoided

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

If they want a system that works, they'll have to use moderators but that would be too expensive to implement over all of xbox live so in my opinion there's nothing they can do about their service's shitty reputation. From another article about this I'm under the impression Microsoft is only doing this because xbox live is know for having 12 year olds screaming obscenities at people and they want a more "family friendly" image. I doubt they care if this system will work. I think matches work better when, depending on the size the match, there's one or more "hosts" or moderators who ultimately have the power to kick or block people from a game but even then its hard to implament. I don't see a lot of value in a long term reputation system

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

PREPARE YOURSELF MORTARS TO SERVE MY MASTER FOR ETERNITY (insert diablo 3 skeleton king voice here)

Really, I am going to enjoy all these threads soon, while I sit back with my pc and laugh at this.

I find it Ironic that you can almost pick the types of haters deeper in this image provided that will be cast down into the hell. With the racists ect at the deepest end and the Hackers being the gluttons ect.

Hey, I can see my house from here!

 

[doomed89]

Random monitoring is the only effective system for something like this I think. And before anyone goes off on privacy crap and what not we are talking about conversations you are having with strangers over the internet.

 

[Darkbladex96]

But what did he do wrong? Now banning players for not makimg cookie cutter builds of popular ov erused, and possibly played out games styles is a bannable offense? Are you saying that its fair for the community to have its head so far up its ass that they can get me banned for having a suboptimal build if so so... LoL is the only game that deserves to die.

Reputation systems only work if there is considerable oversight and a number of failsafes. For instance, LoL has a solid system in the Tribunal (not perfect, but robust and solid), where players report others, then once a sufficient number of reports has been accrued that player is forwarded to the Tribunal. There, other players get to review cases at random, each case consisting of stats and chat logs for a number of games that player participated in. Finally, if enough players decide that the accused deserves punishment, it is then forwarded to a moderator who makes the final call.

The moderators make the final call in only the cases that involve a perm ban. In all other instances- it's entirely automated.
And to give an alternate opinion on The League Tribunal- it is absolutely the worst rep system I've ever seen or been a part of. You can get suspended for days or even weeks without even breaking a single rule. To give an example: A person recently got banned because he was playing Mordekaiser as a jungler.
More info: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35658688

Except he wasn't. In that particular game, he played an unconventional build of a not-too-great champion for the first time (his own words) in a Ranked game. I can totally understand why his team was less than thrilled. Also, you don't get banned for one game. Ever. You can't. You had to have been reported by multiple people for a number of games. I've done a decent number of Tribunal cases and I've never seen a case with less than 4 games that that person was reported for, usually, 6-7 games were listed.

People are naturally butthurt when they get a suspension, and they tend to cry about it, saying that it was just one game. It wasn't. It never is. To even show up in front of the Tribunal you had to have been reported over and over again.

 

[doomed89]

But what did he do wrong? Now banning players for not makimg cookie cutter builds of popular ov erused, and possibly played out games styles is a bannable offense? Are you saying that its fair for the community to have its head so far up its ass that they can get me banned for having a suboptimal build if so so... LoL is the only game that deserves to die.

Yeah that's a pretty horrible system, I mean kick him out of the clan whatever if he sucks fine but to suspend him for the actual game is ridicules.

 

[major_chaos]

But what did he do wrong?

Basically lost intentionally in ranked? There are builds that are unorthodox but work, but most of the things people get in trouble for just do not work. Ranked is for people playing to win, if you wan't to dick around with derpy builds, do it in normals, or better yet bots.

 

[Godhead]

This seems really similar to what Valve did with DOTA 2. Course that really only reinforced bad behavior and was really hard to get out of there once you got in there.

 

[Generic4me]

The system can't possibly work, it's fundamentally flawed. Every time I join a match I mute everybody in the match, because I don't like listening to morons spewing bullshit.

So I'm automatically in the lowest layer simply because I muted everybody, because the system compensates. And I'll forever be in the lowest layer because I'll have to mute all the stupid douchebags whom are in that lowest layer with me, further cementing me in that lowest layer.

 

[Micalas]

Edit: To those comparing this to tribunal in LoL, you are very much wrong. What Microsoft is proposing is a Prisoner's Island system, something that player behavior team of Riot has said they will never institute because it doesn't nothing to reform behavior. It causes a spiral effect where you get with worse and worse people until you hit the bottom.

Reputation systems only work if there is considerable oversight and a number of failsafes. For instance, LoL has a solid system in the Tribunal (not perfect, but robust and solid), where players report others, then once a sufficient number of reports has been accrued that player is forwarded to the Tribunal. There, other players get to review cases at random, each case consisting of stats and chat logs for a number of games that player participated in. Finally, if enough players decide that the accused deserves punishment, it is then forwarded to a moderator who makes the final call.

The moderators make the final call in only the cases that involve a perm ban. In all other instances- it's entirely automated.
And to give an alternate opinion on The League Tribunal- it is absolutely the worst rep system I've ever seen or been a part of. You can get suspended for days or even weeks without even breaking a single rule. To give an example: A person recently got banned because he was playing Mordekaiser as a jungler.
More info: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35658688

I say it on the LoL forums all the time and I'll say it here. I have almost 2k games played and I've never even been suspended. Contrary to popular belief, it's pretty easy to not be a dickhead in game.

 

[thethird0611]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125633-Xbox-Ones-Reputation-System-Locks-Harassers-Into-Their-Own-Hell

Let me just go ahead and post that, and post what many people in there have said...

IT

IS

NOT

AUTOMATED.

You only get sent down a level when an Xbox Mod sees you do bad shit in game, then THEY can send you down, not an automated system which can griefed.

 

[snakeinthereeds]

Huh, looks like it might be pretty nice if it's properly looked after. There are some failsafes, but just how functional are they going to be everyone will be finding out once they're seen in action, or not.

Yeah that's a pretty horrible system, I mean kick him out of the clan whatever if he sucks fine but to suspend him for the actual game is ridicules.

He was actually suspended from the game for that? Just how significant to the fate of the world are these ranked matches exactly?

 

[Gennadios]

And to give an alternate opinion on The League Tribunal- it is absolutely the worst rep system I've ever seen or been a part of. You can get suspended for days or even weeks without even breaking a single rule. To give an example: A person recently got banned because he was playing Mordekaiser as a jungler.
More info: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35658688

It wasn't that cut and dry, that person racked up weeks of complaints and wasn't a particularly communicative player. An example of the kind of player people don't like to play with. It's not really unfair to have him 'test' his builds in the low rep ghetto.

Personally, I think it's about time to start rep systems, or at least test them out. Too many 12 year olds in games now adays, and it's not like you can just flash an ID and set up a 30-something game with ease.

I'm just glad it's coming to the XBone first, I don't do Microsoft, so they can get the ball rolling and more competent people will take their place.

 

[Darkbladex96]

But what did he do wrong?

Basically lost intentionally in ranked? There are builds that are unorthodox but work, but most of the things people get in trouble for just do not work. Ranked is for people playing to win, if you wan't to dick around with derpy builds, do it in normals, or better yet bots.

Oh, so its in the rules not to play around in ranked with quarky builds in ranked? If not there should be no problem, otherwise these play to win people should be partied up. They take their own risk playing a game of stakes with randoms. You should never punish players for exploring gameplay options. Game mode is irrelevant.

Unless the game checks for some prerequisite before match making a build should not ne grounds for ban. Ever. Unless said build is illegal.WHat happened was just an examplepeople being dicks. Nothing more.

At most those players that dont like his build should be able to avoid him. But to lose your right to play the game because some asshats dont like how you play is the worst system ever.

What next? Banning people for suboptimal hotkey placements? Banning because you dont like someones macros.

"Hes green we dont like him..."

If he plays ranked the only performance that matters is ranked.

 

[Something Amyss]

When I read the title, I thought it might be a cynical reference to the departure of Don Mattrick, to Zynga...

XD

The fail safes they have in place sound logical and the system could work

Their failsafes are vague promises at this point.

IT

IS

NOT

It is not automatic. From all appearances, it is largely automated. The use of "automatic" here appears to apply to the concept of you getting a one time grief bomb.

If you're going to scream at people, try and make sure you've got the information right.

 

[doomed89]

He was actually suspended from the game for that? Just how significant to the fate of the world are these ranked matches exactly?

I don't know all the information I got on it was in this thread and the link but it sounds like the players are just dicks to anyone who doesn't play the way they do. Something similar happened to me in a game called gunz everyone had this style where the block doge and shoot in one motion because of a cool glitch that made the game unique so the devs started building the game around that, meanwhile I just aimed and killed them doing the gun dodge instead of the sword one and pissed them off lol, good thing there was no rating system in there or else I would of had a low one. I also used a machine gun to compensate for lag and was called a sprayer lol. But yeah player rating systems never work, the only thing that works if an admin having a brain and seeing/hearing it, so video/audio recordings.

Hey that's what they need to do. Let players start an audio/video recording that goes straight to the mods for review with all relevant information. That system would work great, and players who waste the mods time can just have that ability taken away.

 

[Bad Jim]

And to give an alternate opinion on The League Tribunal- it is absolutely the worst rep system I've ever seen or been a part of. You can get suspended for days or even weeks without even breaking a single rule. To give an example: A person recently got banned because he was playing Mordekaiser as a jungler.
More info: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35658688

It wasn't that cut and dry, that person racked up weeks of complaints and wasn't a particularly communicative player. An example of the kind of player people don't like to play with. It's not really unfair to have him 'test' his builds in the low rep ghetto.

Surely there's a better system to punish people who screw around in ranked play. Some sort of ranking system that drops them into lower leagues if their eccentricity repeatedly loses games.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35659021

Oh wait. It seems he can never drop leagues due to bad play. I dare say a lot of ill feeling could be avoided if bad players were brought back down into the leagues they deserved. Being a team game it is quite possible to get promoted through luck, since you could just get better teammates several times in a row, or the games could just work out better. So why is there no system that can pull bad players back down?

Another idea - instead of bad repping players for fruity builds, players could give them a score multiplier. If they're just trolling, they'll plummet in the rankings, but if their choices are legit, they'll be about as likely to go up as down.

 

[major_chaos]

otherwise these play to win people should be partied up.

They were, its called queing up for a ranked match. The entire point of ranked is to play more seriously. The place for screwing around is normals, not ranked where if you make me lose it dings my LP.

 

[TheCommanders]

What seems really strange about this to me is the fact that being muted hurts you. I often blanket mute entire lobbies, depending on the game. It's nothing against most of the people there, but if I'm not talking (don't have a mic hooked up) I don't need people yelling at me while I'm unable to respond. Seems a strange thing for them to mark people down for.