Microsoft Xbox needs to die.

[mik1]

Next gen microsoft NEEDS to lose the race

That's where the wii U comes in.
all the gamecube fanboys who have been without a flagship will return to the big N.
#fact

 

[loc978]

I'd just like to say, I called this in early 2002 when I discovered Microsoft made a game console.

Initial reaction: "Microsoft... hardware? This won't end well."

Yeah because Microsoft keyboards and mice have always been unreliable, right?

sort of a different level of hardware there, bud... also yeah, they've never been very tough.

 

[svenjl]

I got a used one that's been working just fine since the day I got it. Don't know what you're doing to yours to make them explode, but it can't be on the list of Do's for the system.

This ^

Had my old shape Pro for over 3 years and still using the same controller too. WTF some people do to their gaming hardware I can't believe. I mean, I'm sympathetic cause RROD is a real problem, but...

I have mine horizontal, turn it off after every gaming session, NEVER let it sit running (ever), almost always use the controller to open and close the disc tray, and never chuck my controller. I need to go shine my halo now.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

A couple of things.

1) Screw mods. Most are cheats of some kind and while I enjoy SOME mods, most just don't improve my game-play experience enough for me to make the switch to PC. And this IS NOT an invitation for you to suggest ANYTHING!!! I know about ALL the mods you are so dying to tell me about.

2) I, like many others, didn't have much of a problem with the RROD. One time about a year into use, sent it in, had it back for free in less than a month.

3) Power for price. A brand new 360 was $400. A laptop(I move too much to have a desktop) that could do the same thing would have cost around 1000-1500. And I REALLY don't feel like debating this one. In addition to this, PC just isn't as reliable. There is always a problem. With install, with the graphics card, with the in-game content, with the performance. And if you found some deal/computer that blows what I just said away, quite frankly I don't care. I am talking from experience.

4) Exclusive games and ease of use. Not only are there several games I LOVE that are only on 360, but I feel that Xbox LIVE is completely worth it for excellent service, good servers and great accessibility.

If you feel differently, that's fine. I however, will be playing my 360 for a VERY long time.

Reading this has made my brain malfunction and given me a headache.

[image/]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nQsCMsIXSjQ/TU87RgbhO2I/AAAAAAAAAeQ/n8Jx8QaOgnA/s1600/success_baby-kid.jpg[/IMG]

I just get so sick of the "PC is better. This is a fact you cannot argue in any way" vibe from these threads.

Doing the exact opposite does not make you any better than PC elitists just to put it out there. Seriously, if you actually take the time to look around you'll see there's so much shit on both sides and other people get sick of hearsay and rumours perpetuated by people who know nothing of the platform.

So I will agree on the PC notion gets annoying but so does bad anecdotal evidence that has been refuted many times but people refuse to believe it has been done so. There ways all platforms are superior and you cannot argue that the other is superior.

 

[LilithSlave]

Eh, I wouldn't mind if Microsoft dropped out of the console market.

But I love my XBOX360. It comes with plenty of glorious Cave shooters.<3

 

[Skops]

It just proves the ol' saying true: If something doesn't break, Microsoft didn't make it

I'm disagreeing with this. I've had my Xbox since Christmas 2007, and have not encountered a single problem with it whatsoever.

EDIT: Also to OP, if you can't stand how Microsoft acts on its tactics, shouldn't you have stopped paying for an Xbox before your 4th one?

 

[Something Amyss]

By that logic, your console not working doesn't mean much either.

Right, Affirmative statements are completely equatable to rebuttals that you haven't had a problem.

It means a lot to the thread actually. It's called healthy debate, and for a debate to be successful and not just a flame-war you need differing opinions backed up by personal experience.

Debates rarely operate on anecdotes. at least, not as primary evidence. I think you might have been thinking of something else. Or you're really poor at debate.

It doesn't appear this was intended as a debate, either way.

If we only had a bunch of people with consoles that didn't work berating Microsoft it would paint a very inaccurate but dangerous picture.

I doubt anything will paint a worse picture than the rather accurate one painted by Microsoft actually admitting to the problem in the first place and spending over a billion on fixing it.

And considering you have designated yourself 'intelligent' enough to be condescending toward me, than I hope you can see I was more pointing out how hypocritical and unfair his "your personal experience doesn't count but mine does because it bashes Microsoft" argument was. Really now.

I can see that even though you are chastising me over my so-called "condescending" demonstration of intellect, you had no problem with dropping a strawman fallacy on me by misrepresenting my claim as something it wasn't.

Especially awesome since you're the one claiming "debate." Are logical fallacies and anecdotes your idea of healthy debate?

 

[Epona]

I'd just like to say, I called this in early 2002 when I discovered Microsoft made a game console.

Initial reaction: "Microsoft... hardware? This won't end well."

Yeah because Microsoft keyboards and mice have always been unreliable, right?

sort of a different level of hardware there, bud... also yeah, they've never been very tough.

It's hardware and I used Microsoft keyboards and mice for years with no trouble at all. These days I use Logitech because it's cheaper but I still wouldn't think twice about buying a Microsoft wireless desktop.

What do you do with your keyboards and mice, throw them against the wall?

The 360 was junk until recently, the original XBOX wasn't that reliable either but to say Microsoft hardware always sucked is stretching it.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Heh, I got to it literally through just typing it in google. Haven't read the whole thread, found your post through a quite.

Alright, benefit of the doubt. I'd just replied to another post that provided that link, and when your post came to me via my inbox it didn't include the link. But moving on.

Big news: All games are licenses. Always were. Software is ALWAYS just licensed.

Always? Since when? Even in the days when you had a disc (CD, floppy, take your pick) and didn't need an internet connection to enable it?

Then you should not be gaming. Bugs and such were always there. "Complete games at launch" never existed.

*sigh* Alright, I'll be more specific: as complete as reasonably possible. To paraphrase ZP, there was an era before widespread internet access that meant that games had to be released with as little in the way of glitches as possible, lest the developers be sentenced to death by brontosaurus.

And let's say that I own an Xbox, and I don't have internet access. That's a not exactly a rare situation. And let's say that I buy a game only to find it so buggy that it's unplayable, but all my internet-having friends tell me that the first patch made things great. Why should a developer get off scot-free for selling an obviously broken product? Is it just a way to escape paying betatesters?

Community Support after release is also more than just DLC and simple bugfixes. Witcher 2 offered extra content to all when they release Witcher 2 on Xbox 360, also they patched another difficulty mod.

Oh, I know about the extra stuff for Witcher 2. I also know that the appeal of 'free, awesome game' is stronger than '$60+ game with free additions,' hence why it was pirated so much.

TF2 gets patched around every week to keep a proper balancing. Espeically MP titles need community support to not die.

As a direct result of adding new stuff, I imagine. And during the periods when you're not adding new stuff, why would you need weekly balance updates? Wouldn't that just indicate that you're not very good at balancing the game?

Again: Nice to see that you support this and just want to see big titles to have any kind of longliving support on consoles. I prefer my PC where indie devs can patch without paying for it.

When did I say that I liked the idea of the slightly-verified '$40,000' patch thing? It seems stupid from even a purely business-oriented POV.

Let me rephrase that: If you sink a grand into a gaming laptop then you are an idiot.

Okay...for what reasons? Because I could have gotten this hypothetical laptop for less, or because I bought one at all?

If you have regular problems with crashes, games and viruses you are incompetent.

Yeah, because that's a great way to appeal to people who aren't regular PC users: "Come join us! But if you have any problems, you're a dumbass."

But on the other hand I won't go out and say that you can find a gaming laptop or even PC capable of running modern games better than the 360 for 250$. 400$ for PC, maybe ~600$ (most likely 700$) for a gaming laptop should do it.

Okay...got examples? 'Cause that'd be awesome.

Steam is only licensing you use of the games

All software is licenses, you don't own your Xbox games either. Get over it.

Sure I do. I can take the disc (remember those?) for practically every game I own and put it into a friend's Xbox and have it work just the same way. Unless the Microsoft repo team comes to my house to confiscate my game discs, I call bullshit.

 

[Stukov Wolfwood]

i been trough 5 xbox, 1 brand new that got red rings, 2 and 3 broke right after i got them from microsoft as replacement and had to send back. Number 4 had E74. and number 5 is still working but collecting dust next to my ps3 and wii since i got a gaming pc.

the good thing i only paid for the first one because they all broke withing the warranty time.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Well, nothing official. Still, seems pretty outrageous. I guess it's the same/similar on all consoles, but at least on PC a dev can just throw a patch up on their website. Free minus the cost of the server space.

I'll agree with, but that's a product of computers being internet-connected by nature. Tough to do that with 360s. Even the 'free' gaming services aren't able to just connect to the internet without going through a patron client.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you mean about the PS3 jibe. Granted, I don't play a lot of PS3 games online, used to play a fair bit of CoD and Gran Turismo though as well as Demon's Souls, and didn't have any issues. I suppose the hacking thing was sucky but fortunately it didn't affect me.

Basically, it's the byproduct of any 'free' support service. There is no motivation for a company to put any more than the bare minimum amount of capital into keeping them running. As nice as a company might seem, their motivations must be to turn a profit. If they don't, they cease to be a company anymore, mostly due to lack of money.

With PSN, there was no direct financial motivation for Sony to pay top-dollar to protect it from hacking. What are PS3 users going to do if they're dissatisfied with the online service? Switching consoles is too drastic-looking a step, and a lot of the main titles of the PS3 are predominantly single-player games.

Also, aren't all the consoles also designed to connect to the net? I mean they have ethernet ports just like a PC, and even include wireless which goes beyond most PCs. Basically, I don't see why exclude it from the list. Most PC game apps like Steam, Origin, Impulse, GFWL are totally free - although some of them suck some serious donkey you know what.

They're capable of it, yes, but up until the latest incarnation of the 360, for instance, you needed a special attachment if you wanted to connect to a WiFi network, and even then it requires an...operating system for lack of a better term. And while I don't want to pretend I know more about internet connections than I actually do, I imagine that consoles being far less open to user-tampering than computers means that it falls on Microsoft to do all the things that users would normally do to maintain their hardware.

And well, the Wii... yeah... but, at least you can get Netflix on the Wii without a subscription to "Wii Live" lol.

True, but does that fall on Microsoft, or Netflix? Remember that the latter wanted to make DVD rentals and streaming separate services, and barely got cowed into not doing so by negative feedback. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one reason why they backed down: Microsoft and Netflix worked out a mutually beneficial deal.

Well... sort of. I suppose I put that very badly. Most mods are things like new textures and meshes, or simple edits of in game items - things that are not changed on a patch to patch basis. The likelyhood of a mod that adds a new armor or weapon or house breaking the game are extremely low.

But if you're using something that alters textures across the board, what happens when the game gets something added to it? The texture mod certainly didn't include it when release. That's the main reason I stopped using an otherwise awesome Minecraft texture pack: things got added almost every patch, and it caused problems that outweighed the benefits of said mod.

The two examples I listed are literally the only two I know of right now. Neither of them will break the game if they aren't working and so far have been pretty quick to get updated after a patch.

That leads to similar problems to the 'free service' thing mentioned earlier: what motivation do modders have to produce, for free, updated mods every time the game gets patched? It's like having people paid to render the job you did for free useless, unless you modify it...also for free.

Well I guess the obvious thing to state is that nobody is stealing person data if a PC dies. I assume you mean you lose all your stored photos and other personal effects if a hard drive dies, and yes that is unfortunate. There are ways of mitigating that, though, from using cloud storage to backing up your own stuff on an external drive or just using RAID 1 (mirrors data between multiple drives).

Call me old fashioned, but I like to keep my tech in separate roles, particularly for that reason. I still keep an external hard drive, but that won't be of much comfort when I can't type up an assignment for that week because something gaming-related crashed my computer.

Depends on the PC, a lot of them like Dells and HPs have limited warranties for a couple years. But, if you build your own, you generally get pretty good coverage. Most of my parts came with 2-3 year warranties, some are lifetime. It's really not that different from a console, though. Once the warranty is up you gotta pay to send it out and get it fixed.

Fair enough. Though I'm hearing 'building your own computer' mentioned a good deal, and that falls outside my skill area. And I don't have much motivation to learn how mostly because of previously mentioned issues of desktop portability.

Um... thanks. I swear I'm not trying to be super argumentative here, rather just clear up (what I feel are) a few misconceptions.

No worries. You're coming across well, which is a feat when you're talking over a medium that doesn't have things like inflection to indicate tone.

 

[LordXel]

My 360 just got RRoD yesterday! It took nearly four years but it finally did it. Or course I'm left with not much else to do but I'm getting it repaired later on, however if it dies less than a year later again, I'll just convert to a PS3. Maybe that upgrade is inevitable for me.

 

[Korbo]

I've had my Xbox for 3 years now, and nothing's gone wrong. You musn't be treating yours as well as possible.

 

[Epona]

True, but does that fall on Microsoft, or Netflix? Remember that the latter wanted to make DVD rentals and streaming separate services, and barely got cowed into not doing so by negative feedback. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one reason why they backed down: Microsoft and Netflix worked out a mutually beneficial deal.

It falls on Microsoft. You can get Netflix on many other devices without a separate paid subscription including the PS3. Also, Microsoft requires Gold for other free services like Facebook.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

snip

Doing the exact opposite does not make you any better than PC elitists just to put it out there. Seriously, if you actually take the time to look around you'll see there's so much shit on both sides and other people get sick of hearsay and rumors perpetuated by people who know nothing of the platform.

So I will agree on the PC notion gets annoying but so does bad anecdotal evidence that has been refuted many times but people refuse to believe it has been done so. There ways all platforms are superior and you cannot argue that the other is superior.

My point wasn't to be better, it was to sling some illiterate rambling shit the other way because it felt really, [i/]really[/i] good.

Alright, I'm getting out of this thread while I still can...

[image/]http://b.crazzy.se/fuck-this-thread-im-outta-here.jpg[/IMG]

 

[Racecarlock]

Dude, if you want to stick to PC, just stick to PC. Don't wish for the death of my only current generation gaming machine. I just want to play on my console without being called dumb. Is that too much to ask for? Because seriously, sometimes you guys are like friggin' jehovah's witnesses or something. It's a gaming device, not a religion.

 

[Xeraxis]

It just proves the ol' saying true: If something doesn't break, Microsoft didn't make it

I'm disagreeing with this. I've had my Xbox since Christmas 2007, and have not encountered a single problem with it whatsoever.

EDIT: Also to OP, if you can't stand how Microsoft acts on its tactics, shouldn't you have stopped paying for an Xbox before your 4th one?

Haha. I can't believe I've forgotten about that. Using XP was a monstrosity for me. I'll rephase my statement, in that only my Xbox hasn't experienced issues, but I've had some trouble with other Microsoft items. I see your point.

 

[loc978]

I'd just like to say, I called this in early 2002 when I discovered Microsoft made a game console.

Initial reaction: "Microsoft... hardware? This won't end well."

Yeah because Microsoft keyboards and mice have always been unreliable, right?

sort of a different level of hardware there, bud... also yeah, they've never been very tough.

It's hardware and I used Microsoft keyboards and mice for years with no trouble at all. These days I use Logitech because it's cheaper but I still wouldn't think twice about buying a Microsoft wireless desktop.

What do you do with your keyboards and mice, throw them against the wall?

The 360 was junk until recently, the original XBOX wasn't that reliable either but to say Microsoft hardware always sucked is stretching it.

I'll give you that... though I've worn out a few Microsoft mice through normal use (left button goes pretty quickly... but those were rubber-ball 2-buttons back in the 90s) and have yet to damage my Logitech (had the same one over 10 years now). I've never had a Microsoft keyboard... but I was mostly being cheeky. Like I said, it's a different level of hardware we're talking about here.

Why I assumed Microsoft making hardware wouldn't end well was my experience with their approach to designing the Windows OS. "Keep it simple, stupid" isn't in their lexicon.
To make a few parallels, the original Xbox was their first foray into a new frontier... like Windows 95. They started off with a lot of bugs and problems, fixed most of 'em in overcomplicated ways... and about the time they got it running smoothly (Win98SE = last run of the original Xbox), they went and tried to redesign it from the ground up for performance (Win ME = first run Xbox 360). I'd say now they've got the 360 to the point where it could be considered nearly as reliable as Windows XP beta2. Expect the console version of Windows Vista to be their next release.

 

[Epona]

I'd just like to say, I called this in early 2002 when I discovered Microsoft made a game console.

Initial reaction: "Microsoft... hardware? This won't end well."

Yeah because Microsoft keyboards and mice have always been unreliable, right?

sort of a different level of hardware there, bud... also yeah, they've never been very tough.

It's hardware and I used Microsoft keyboards and mice for years with no trouble at all. These days I use Logitech because it's cheaper but I still wouldn't think twice about buying a Microsoft wireless desktop.

What do you do with your keyboards and mice, throw them against the wall?

The 360 was junk until recently, the original XBOX wasn't that reliable either but to say Microsoft hardware always sucked is stretching it.

I'll give you that... though I've worn out a few Microsoft mice through normal use (left button goes pretty quickly... but those were rubber-ball 2-buttons back in the 90s) and have yet to damage my Logitech (had the same one over 10 years now). I've never had a Microsoft keyboard... but I was mostly being cheeky. Like I said, it's a different level of hardware we're talking about here.

Why I assumed Microsoft making hardware wouldn't end well was my experience with their approach to designing the Windows OS. "Keep it simple, stupid" isn't in their lexicon.
To make a few parallels, the original Xbox was their first foray into a new frontier... like Windows 95. They started off with a lot of bugs and problems, fixed most of 'em in overcomplicated ways... and about the time they got it running smoothly (Win98SE = last run of the original Xbox), they went and tried to redesign it from the ground up for performance (Win ME = first run Xbox 360). I'd say now they've got the 360 to the point where it could be considered nearly as reliable as Windows XP beta2. Expect the console version of Windows Vista to be their next release.

Not to be mean but me comparing their keyboards and mice to a console is certainly much closer to reality than you comparing the Windows OS to console. Windows is software where as a keyboard/mouse is hardware.

Windows may have been less reliable in the past but it's always been king. You could run Windows 95 or you could run DOS, comparing those two...I took Windows.