Million Dollar Actor, Five Dollar Writer
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I basically agree with this. I don't believe that all writing in games is horrible, but I do think that most game writing isn't very good. But, it doesn't have to be. As long as it is semi interesting and/or facilitates the gameplay, I'm fine. I've never been moved or impressed with a game's story. Dragon age did a fairly good job... at least at drawing me into the universe it is set in. Also, I disagree with the FF hate. The writing isn't impeccable, but it's above average for games.nightwolf667 said:
Bad writing? Almost every game I've played has seen at least a scene or two of bad writing.
It's simple. They don't want to go to the extra mile of hiring a professional writer. These cost money. You'll tell me: "But cutscenes and voice-acting cost more!" Yeah, guess what the companies believe that it sells and guess how much they actually care about the story.
A game doesn't have to rely on cutscenes to deliver a story. Silent Hill 2 wasn't filled to the brim with them. Developers should take note of a game that delivers its story mainly through its gameworld without interrupting the gameplay.
Alternatively, those developers should give up on cutscenes entirely. I mean, what do they hope to accomplish? To prove that they are some kind of geniuses when they aren't? (I am looking at you, Dennis Dyack) Developers are not writers in the same way that developers aren't artwork creators or musicians. They should concentrate on the things that they can do well (the game design) and leave the fluff out.
By the way, a terrible example of a recent game with such bad writing it is unbearable is Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World. I spent the first hour of the game wishing that the main character would stop being such a pansy ass and that the developers stop interrupting the game to ram cutscenes down our throat. I actually stopped playing it twice because I couldn't take it anymore.
A game doesn't have to rely on cutscenes to deliver a story. Silent Hill 2 wasn't filled to the brim with them. Developers should take note of a game that delivers its story mainly through its gameworld without interrupting the gameplay.
Alternatively, those developers should give up on cutscenes entirely. I mean, what do they hope to accomplish? To prove that they are some kind of geniuses when they aren't? (I am looking at you, Dennis Dyack) Developers are not writers in the same way that developers aren't artwork creators or musicians. They should concentrate on the things that they can do well (the game design) and leave the fluff out.
By the way, a terrible example of a recent game with such bad writing it is unbearable is Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World. I spent the first hour of the game wishing that the main character would stop being such a pansy ass and that the developers stop interrupting the game to ram cutscenes down our throat. I actually stopped playing it twice because I couldn't take it anymore.
Certainly not my pick for worst writing ever, but in a similar vein:
Did anyone else get the feeling that the people who "wrote" (storyboarded, brainstormed, etc.) the content of Oblivion were totally separate from the people who actually wrote the dialogue of the game? Seriously, it's such a good story, so mediocre-ly told.
(Or that they fixed that for Sheogorath's dialogue in SI?)
Did anyone else get the feeling that the people who "wrote" (storyboarded, brainstormed, etc.) the content of Oblivion were totally separate from the people who actually wrote the dialogue of the game? Seriously, it's such a good story, so mediocre-ly told.
(Or that they fixed that for Sheogorath's dialogue in SI?)
Gameplay gets tedious on me without a good story. Hell, I'll take a story-intence game with little actual playing (Sam & Max, Myst) over a game where I just run around & kill shit & loot & sell. That's good for awhile, but I don't feel compelled to play for days on end.
The Aveyond series has a good balance of story & action, & it's a budget franchise made in 2D, skipping steps 2, 4, 5, & 6. & of course RPGs like Baldur's Gate & Neverwinter Nights.
The Aveyond series has a good balance of story & action, & it's a budget franchise made in 2D, skipping steps 2, 4, 5, & 6. & of course RPGs like Baldur's Gate & Neverwinter Nights.
I'd just like to stand in defense of Devil May Cry 4 and state that the point of the cutscenes wasn't to tell a story (it's fairly simple), but rather to show off cool stuff. And in that regard, the game does it quite well. Also, this is one case where a deep and complex story might actually be harmful to the game...
Good point.
My friends always skip the cutscenes and never listen to dialogues. That's a lot of content wasted. Developers just lost their precious time doing something that no one cares about. Why not do something good with that time? I love a good story, but when game has awful writing, i just think about why they didn't make more guns and skins for enemies, because that's what i want.
Devil May Cry 3 had all these awful cutscenes where emo kids whine and throw cars at each other. But at the same time there was not much variety in monsters. Waste of time.
Oh, and recently i got my hands on Pokemon game. There's so much dialogue that's boring and pointless. People come at you and say that they like fishing or something, your mom speaks about moving in a new house or something, it's just boring. I'm killing the same Pokemon over and over again, but they had time to write boring dialogue? (not a good example, as there are no voice actors, no 3D e.t.c, but still a waste of time)
My friends always skip the cutscenes and never listen to dialogues. That's a lot of content wasted. Developers just lost their precious time doing something that no one cares about. Why not do something good with that time? I love a good story, but when game has awful writing, i just think about why they didn't make more guns and skins for enemies, because that's what i want.
Devil May Cry 3 had all these awful cutscenes where emo kids whine and throw cars at each other. But at the same time there was not much variety in monsters. Waste of time.
Oh, and recently i got my hands on Pokemon game. There's so much dialogue that's boring and pointless. People come at you and say that they like fishing or something, your mom speaks about moving in a new house or something, it's just boring. I'm killing the same Pokemon over and over again, but they had time to write boring dialogue? (not a good example, as there are no voice actors, no 3D e.t.c, but still a waste of time)
And one more thing - they don't work much on the story because who will notice? People are stupid! Most of them don't care. People think that Twilight has amazing story, for god sakes!
Game + good voice actors + shinny stuff + lazy story= loads of money
Game + good voice actors + shinny stuff + good story= loads of money
Game - good voice actors + shinny stuff +lazy(or good story, it does not matter)= not so much money
Game + good voice actors + shinny stuff + lazy story= loads of money
Game + good voice actors + shinny stuff + good story= loads of money
Game - good voice actors + shinny stuff +lazy(or good story, it does not matter)= not so much money
Personally I don't think game deveolpers may their writers enought to get good stories. Or rather they don't pay enough to attract writers who would write good stories.
As for bad plots: Dragon Age was predictable and dull, Prototype was dire, Overlord 2 wasn't great, Mass Effect was ok at best, Main Quest of Fallout 3 was crap, Assassin's Creed was workable, the Warhammer Dawn of War games were just bland, never finished Unreal 3 plot and didn't care about it anyway, Bioshock story didn't do much for me either, Crysis was so bad I almost liked it, the less said about The Witcher the better, Oblivion Main Quest was pitiful, Supreme Commander is a huge 'meh'...
The only plots in games I've ever cared for were Beyond Good and Evil, Pysconauts, both KOTOR games, Morrowind Main Quest and Valve.
It really comes to something when the game with the best plot released in 2009 was Plants vs Zombies.
As for bad plots: Dragon Age was predictable and dull, Prototype was dire, Overlord 2 wasn't great, Mass Effect was ok at best, Main Quest of Fallout 3 was crap, Assassin's Creed was workable, the Warhammer Dawn of War games were just bland, never finished Unreal 3 plot and didn't care about it anyway, Bioshock story didn't do much for me either, Crysis was so bad I almost liked it, the less said about The Witcher the better, Oblivion Main Quest was pitiful, Supreme Commander is a huge 'meh'...
The only plots in games I've ever cared for were Beyond Good and Evil, Pysconauts, both KOTOR games, Morrowind Main Quest and Valve.
It really comes to something when the game with the best plot released in 2009 was Plants vs Zombies.
I think you can have a piss poor plot without bad writing though. Most of Bioware's RPGs follow the same basic premise - ancient evil, only you are bad ass enough to stop it, shit gets real, world saved - yet contain some absolutely fantastic writing and general story-telling.
Similarly, you can have bad writing as long as it fits. Gears of War is probably the most common example... the dialogue and the story is ridiculous trite... but it's exactly what you want out of a game of that nature, much the same as Resident Evil - although here is probably a good example of perfect writing poorly executed.
I think a lot of the problem is essentially this;
Somebody in the thread mentioned Zelda games as suffering from atrocious writing, which I quite vehemently disagree with. Sure, this is coming from a self-professed fanboy, but the writing is great, the stories are fine even if the plot is clichéd... but it's only fine for a videogame. You could take Twilight Princess - probably the best story in the series - and put it to paper or the big screen and it'd be ridiculous. Even I wouldn't watch it. (Well, maybe)
A lot has been made on a lot of Escapist columns in that games seem to be trying to tell stories worthy of the most epic of movies, in the style of those movies, forgetting the core thing that sets them apart from the film medium - the interactivity and gameplay aspect.
Do we need both to enjoy a game? No, not really, but it helps in a lot of titles. Imagine playing, I don't know, Grand Theft Auto IV without the storyline. All you have is an open world sandbox with absolutely no reason or drive to move forward, and nowhere to go. Fun? Probably... for a very short time.
I think I've started to lose my point. Basically, I agree that gameplay should come first and foremost. If I want fantastic story I'd read a book or watch a film... if I want interactive entertainment, I'll play a videogame... but a believable story, well executed and fit within the confines of the game itself, shouldn't be too much to ask.
Similarly, you can have bad writing as long as it fits. Gears of War is probably the most common example... the dialogue and the story is ridiculous trite... but it's exactly what you want out of a game of that nature, much the same as Resident Evil - although here is probably a good example of perfect writing poorly executed.
I think a lot of the problem is essentially this;
While not really concerned with The Darkness, the point at the bottom rings true regardless - I played Bioshock and thought the plot was fantastic, the story and the way it played out was brilliant, which is why I can happily agree when it's lauded as such. However, most games follow writing which, yeah, are great - for a videogame.The Random One said:
Somebody in the thread mentioned Zelda games as suffering from atrocious writing, which I quite vehemently disagree with. Sure, this is coming from a self-professed fanboy, but the writing is great, the stories are fine even if the plot is clichéd... but it's only fine for a videogame. You could take Twilight Princess - probably the best story in the series - and put it to paper or the big screen and it'd be ridiculous. Even I wouldn't watch it. (Well, maybe)
A lot has been made on a lot of Escapist columns in that games seem to be trying to tell stories worthy of the most epic of movies, in the style of those movies, forgetting the core thing that sets them apart from the film medium - the interactivity and gameplay aspect.
Do we need both to enjoy a game? No, not really, but it helps in a lot of titles. Imagine playing, I don't know, Grand Theft Auto IV without the storyline. All you have is an open world sandbox with absolutely no reason or drive to move forward, and nowhere to go. Fun? Probably... for a very short time.
I think I've started to lose my point. Basically, I agree that gameplay should come first and foremost. If I want fantastic story I'd read a book or watch a film... if I want interactive entertainment, I'll play a videogame... but a believable story, well executed and fit within the confines of the game itself, shouldn't be too much to ask.
They should put Bruce Campbell in more Videogames.Onyx Oblivion said:
To make them more awesome.
On a different note:
Dawn of War II.
It actually had terrific dialogue in my opinion, some amazing quotes, and great characters. HOWEVER, it failed completely when presenting these moments well. All of this would occur in a static map overlay screen with talking character bubbles. Cutscenes would have done wonders for the game in my opinion.
Dawn of War II.
It actually had terrific dialogue in my opinion, some amazing quotes, and great characters. HOWEVER, it failed completely when presenting these moments well. All of this would occur in a static map overlay screen with talking character bubbles. Cutscenes would have done wonders for the game in my opinion.
I think that it's best if you're not good at making a story, don't have one at all. Crackdown didn't have one, and it's a better game for it. Also, one thing that strikes me as odd is all the terrible writers coming together to write an awful script for a great game (see Resident Evil 4) while Valve, as they've shown us in the Meet the... series, Half-Life 2, and Portal, has some excellent writers that actually know how to put together a story, yet refused to in Left 4 Dead. I honestly think that it's a game that maybe with some cutscenes added in between each level or something could make an excellent game with a great story and maybe even a movie. But yet they only make a surprisingly good opening cutscene and just leave it at that.
Let me guess, you got that from the ZP review of the game, right?Georgeman said:
I'd love to hear how you would include all the stuff that's done in the cutscenes into the control scheme without having to add half a dozen extra buttons and even more otherwise useless combinations.
That, or quick time events, which would likely annoy you even more...
Amen to culdcept saga. I loved that game, but every aspect of writing was cringe worthy.
I also nominate any and all of the dynasty warrior games. They have a good story (formation of China) which they absolutely savage. The voice acting is horrible too.
I also nominate any and all of the dynasty warrior games. They have a good story (formation of China) which they absolutely savage. The voice acting is horrible too.