I don't know if this is reportable or not. Seeing that you are new however I'll let it slide.EscapistIsHate said:
However this is a well mannered and non angry discussion thread. Let's keep it that way.
Minority Characters in Gaming (TLoU Spoilers)
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However this is a well mannered and non angry discussion thread. Let's keep it that way.
Watch the scene with the magazine again. That was most definitely a gay magazine. (Or at least, a female-porn magazine)Mossberg Shotty said:Is that really significant evidence though? I could be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing a few females in there as well. The only thing I can think of that hints at it being a gay magazine is when Ellie says something like, "How can he even walk with something like that?"SinisterDeath said:I figured it out fairly easily. his mention of 'partner' is a very common 'code word'. And it became very obvious when Ellie opened up that nudie magazine. Very Obvious.
I kinda wondered about Bill's sexuality with the whole 'partner' thing, but is there anything that really confirms it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eimK5YPT9Bk#t=19s
Magazine. Bear Skin
Naked man on the cover.
didn't see a single female in the brief glimse of it we got.
Her comment about the pages being 'stuck together', aside from messing with him.. might be true, and confirms it even more so.
Oh wow. I nearly laughed my ass off re-watching that scene with new perspective. That's actually the scene that made me love Ellie as a character. xDSinisterDeath said:
It annoys me when I think about it. However this issue is so far off from even being remotely addressed in a serious matter, that I would turn into a crazy loon and not enjoy videogames if I focus on it too much. Right now the least I can do is advocate for more female representation. At least then I would be halfway through the door.xaszatm said:
Alyx always came off as a fine line between someone of Spanish origin and mixed. It's hard to be sure.
On that note like you said in the last bit, I don't want said racial characters, if they are indeed the main characters to have their race be their defining trait. Like, while I'm aware that racism exists, I don't want it to be something that comes up every 30 seconds. I don't want "ghetto" to be the obligatory attitude even though it doesn't match the character's background.
I also don't want them to be a "token" racial character, or a character who only exists for the sole purpose of adding in a racial character.
Conversely is it so unreasonable for Garrus to be bisexual or whatever just because he didn't try to get with a male shep in the first two games? I personally didn't want to romance Garrus and was happy with Kaidan, but always wondered why they never let you romance Vega as either gender.Dragonbums said:
OT:For quite a large majority of characters their sexuality isn't ever explicitly proven/shown, what stops the COD protagonist du jour being gay? Especially since his relationship status/sexuality are never mentioned because honestly who cares about character development in that franchise?
Quite often they are left voiceless or at least deficient in some way so the player can fill in the blanks, so instead of assuming they're straight why do you think they're not gay?
Personally I don't think there really should be a lot of gay/whatever characters in gaming, they should at the very least have some degree of proportional representation which equates to around 6%, but imo a badly done gay character is worse than not having any at all.
I'm not suggesting CoD would or should do this. Those games aren't exactly known for their stories. I'm just saying that there are ways for a gay character to exist and be acknowledged in a military themed shooter, if the creators wished to.Helmholtz Watson said:
There was another thread about this same subject and I agree Bill was a well done gay/bisexual/pansexual character. We don't know exactly what he was all we know is that he was into guys which leaves it a bit open ended. It was tastefully done IMO and most homosexuality explorations or mentions in gaming are tasteful. Even bioware games aren't so bad IMO since their sexuality is never the key defining point of the character themselves
Gamers in general have a strange reaction to LGBT people and I think this is just because of lack of understanding, bad experiences, or immaturity. I think one of the key points there is perception colors reaction. The experiences we have with various people color our views of whatever racial, sexual, political, or religious groups they happen to belong to. Good experiences shape good outlooks, bad experiences shape bad outlooks and as a general rule humans tend to focus on the bad more. For example I have a friend who unapologetically hates gay men because one attempted to rape him. Theres a reason behind his hatred and whether hes right or wrong to feel the way he does I know its not going to change. The same thing could be said for people whose experiences with homosexuals are completely about the individuals sexuality. Like it or not there are gay people whose sole public aspect seems to be that theyre gay. IMO if the only thing to a person is their sexuality then theyre a very dull person but that's how many gay men (in my experience) paint themselves
As far as shooters go the issue with them is often that you are playing an avatar where you can fill in the blanks. Characters like Adam Jensen and Duke nukem are certainly characters with sexualities somewhat set but still a bit openended. There is certainly room to project whatever kind of character a player wants onto the blank avatars and I actually prefer it be that way but I think theres also room for the odd military squad to have a gay person in it. The thing is I don't think devs should be pressured into including this kind of thing. Having token characters is never a good thing IMO
Gamers in general have a strange reaction to LGBT people and I think this is just because of lack of understanding, bad experiences, or immaturity. I think one of the key points there is perception colors reaction. The experiences we have with various people color our views of whatever racial, sexual, political, or religious groups they happen to belong to. Good experiences shape good outlooks, bad experiences shape bad outlooks and as a general rule humans tend to focus on the bad more. For example I have a friend who unapologetically hates gay men because one attempted to rape him. Theres a reason behind his hatred and whether hes right or wrong to feel the way he does I know its not going to change. The same thing could be said for people whose experiences with homosexuals are completely about the individuals sexuality. Like it or not there are gay people whose sole public aspect seems to be that theyre gay. IMO if the only thing to a person is their sexuality then theyre a very dull person but that's how many gay men (in my experience) paint themselves
As far as shooters go the issue with them is often that you are playing an avatar where you can fill in the blanks. Characters like Adam Jensen and Duke nukem are certainly characters with sexualities somewhat set but still a bit openended. There is certainly room to project whatever kind of character a player wants onto the blank avatars and I actually prefer it be that way but I think theres also room for the odd military squad to have a gay person in it. The thing is I don't think devs should be pressured into including this kind of thing. Having token characters is never a good thing IMO
You wouldn't know because again, none of the character sans Liara being a creeper makes any advances towards either Shepard. You will have to be the one to initiate it.
Also I have heard plenty of stories of people talking to Garrus just as much as MaleShep as they would FemShep, and he seems to have no interest in MaleShep in that way. The most you would get is "Can it wait a moment?" Where by the time you get to ME3, apparently you are spacebros more than anything.
But even if handled well, that makes the fact that he's gay a central part of his character and his story. While that's fine occasionally, a gay person shouldn't only be featured in a game to be a gay person, if there were more cases of "Yeah this guy is gay but it doesn't come up or matter at all" then we'd reach a point of equal representation.IllumInaTIma said:
Also how do we know that every character that never had any romantic encounter isn't actually gay? Gordon Freeman? Master Chief? Everyone in CoD?
I haven't played TLoU primarily b/c I can't stand games that are too invested in the story. Digital soap operas.
As to the gay issue, I find it interesting that over the last 40 years or so, the gay community has made more strides than some of the racial minorities, particularly the Afro American community. There are several reasons for this that go beyond this thread, but I'll say that I'm not into playing a gay character. Not b/c of homophobia, but b/c I think sex and video games don't work well. If you like heterosexuality, and you play a game where there's a romance, it's not the only thing in the game that makes it worth playing... I'm super old school, and I actually play games for the gameplay.
As to the gay issue, I find it interesting that over the last 40 years or so, the gay community has made more strides than some of the racial minorities, particularly the Afro American community. There are several reasons for this that go beyond this thread, but I'll say that I'm not into playing a gay character. Not b/c of homophobia, but b/c I think sex and video games don't work well. If you like heterosexuality, and you play a game where there's a romance, it's not the only thing in the game that makes it worth playing... I'm super old school, and I actually play games for the gameplay.
I thought Bill was handled very well and to be honest, I was completely oblivious to his sexuality until Ellie's magazine scene. The whole time he was talking about his partner (Frank... I think), I just kept thinking it was in the same vein as Joel and Tess.
Speaking of minority characters, I was absolutely floored when I recognized Marlene's VA as Merle Dandridge, the actress who voiced Alex from HL2. Then again, that's probably because she hasn't voiced any other games since and those two characters are quite different.
Speaking of minority characters, I was absolutely floored when I recognized Marlene's VA as Merle Dandridge, the actress who voiced Alex from HL2. Then again, that's probably because she hasn't voiced any other games since and those two characters are quite different.
Main problem is the developers themselves. Really, how many well done *straight* romances have been done? Compared to say, the half thought out teenage bimbo coming onto your toon? If you follow that logic, you would upset a large amount of your audience forcing a gay romance on a person. No offense to gay people, but I'd rather not see a half naked teen make a pass at me. (Which is the extent of most developers skills)
Because sexuality is needed for a character to be considered human?[/sarcasm] I go back to Mr.47, while granted he is an "enhanced" human, he is someone who never shows any signs of having any form of sexuality and yet he is still human.SinisterDeath said:
Eh, its kind of reaching to assume that those two are gay judging just from that video.SinisterDeath said:Also, see the edited response. got a nice youtube video on it.
Ok, but I'm asking you if you think a creator should be pressured into creating a gay character in a military shooter knowing that a considerable percent of the targeted audience are very likely to be turned off by the idea of playing as a gay man. I mean its all well in good if some indie developer wants to do this, but why should companies that are going to invest heavily in a IP and have to compete with EA and Activision make such a game?JayElleBee said:
Never played Hitman, so I can't really comment on it.Helmholtz Watson said:
But sexual preference aside. There is very little humanity in most characters in video game. having a gay character, wouldn't innately make someone more human (surprised you didn't argue that). But character flaws, (if you consider that a flaw) is something innately human.
They aren't gay. But that was an 'optional' -non-canon ending. And the way they did it, made those characters come off as gay.
(note, in the real ending, he rides off into the sunset with a girl, and basically elude that they are going to spend time together. In that ending, they almost just did the same ending, and just swapping character models. Obviously with different voice actors/script.
If you read my post, you'd know that answer to that. I'll repeat.Helmholtz Watson said:
No one ever said anything about forcing companies into doing anything. All I'm saying is that a game does not have to be about homosexuality, and the character's orientation does not have to be declared with a megaphone, for LGBT characters to ge included in games.