Misconceptions about stories that bother you

[Nimzabaat]

Maybe you could answer something for me, because this always confuses me... But why, for sake of argument Sauron reclaims the Ring and takes over all of Middle-Earth, could he then not simply cross the ocean and lay waste to the Undying Lands? I mean, I know it's supposed to represent Heaven, but it's still, like... on the ground, right? And humans already once tried to conquer them, but failed. So it's obvious they can be reached.

The Elves act like leaving Middle-Earth means leaving Sauron, but they still share the same "planet", right? Or am I just missing something obvious here?

The Undying Lands are protected by the Valar (basically the gods), who way outrank Sauron (a Maia). When the men of Numenor tried to reach the Undying Lands (spurred on by Sauron, incidentally), the Valar sank the entire island and killed all of its inhabitants, including Sauron's physical body.

I couldn't have put that better myself. I really, really, couldn't.

So... on a side note? Does anyone notice how much more heroic the Elves have to be to go into battle? A Human risks maybe 40 - 50 years of life if they die early. An Elf can only die from violence or sadness (though I think that last one was just in the movies) so they risk eternity. That's pretty impressive as a concept. I'll stop rambling now.

 

[Eamar]

I couldn't have put that better myself. I really, really, couldn't.

So... on a side note? Does anyone notice how much more heroic the Elves have to be to go into battle? A Human risks maybe 40 - 50 years of life if they die early. An Elf can only die from violence or sadness (though I think that last one was just in the movies) so they risk eternity. That's pretty impressive as a concept. I'll stop rambling now.

Thank you

And yes, I always think that every time an Elf goes into battle, I actually find it quite moving. It also means it really frustrates me when people say things like "Thranduil should have sent his troops against Smaug." I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Elves can die of grief or losing the will to live, but it's very rare. If you're referring to Arwen in the movies though, she died because Elves who marry mortals forfeit their immortality (relatedly, the great tragedy of Elrond in LOTR is another thing I don't think gets appreciated enough).

 

[King Aragorn]

It irritates me that the torture/mutilation version has become the most commonly accepted one.

Well if it's the version he most commonly used, that will be the reason why... Even if he didn't like it, he wrote it. I don't like many of the stories I wrote when I was 10 but they still exist.
OT: I don't see why a film (mainly a film but other mediums too) has to be considered dark and stuff to be considered dark and stuff to be considered 'a classic'. Seriously, just look at IMDB top 250. Shawshank Redemption. Godfather. Dark Knight. Schindler's List. Lord of the Rings. Granted I haven't seen all the films on the list but the ones that have light-hearted elements or are in general, are the exception rather than the rule. Even classics, such as Bond, Mission Impossible, Wayne's World, Mad Max, Hot Fuzz/Shaun, Pirates of the Caribbean, and many more are left out.
I think it's mainly that the audience for things like IMDB is one certain kind of people or 'community' so they all choose the films they like and it is 'cool' to like in that culture. It just annoys me when people think this constitutes a good story. Some of the cleverest comedies, like The Hangover, Hot Fuzz, School of Rock, Tropic Thunder etc. are left out in favour of some of the most boring 'serious' films e.g. Slumdog Millionaire, Inglorious Bastards, Gravity etc.
Rant over.
I'm expecting some serious blowback about this

Wait, Pirates of the Carribean is now a classic? really? I mean yeah, pretty good movies and all but they aren't THAT good. and even then the only really good one was the first, I have to give that one props for breathing a bit of new life into the whole Pirates gag.
Dark movies@ my top films are the LotR films followed by The Dark Knight, Godfather and The Shining, But I see where you're coming from, not in the sense that those movies don't deserve it, but sometimes people like dark things just because, they are dark.

The whole "Tolkien Orcs were originally tortured, mutilated Elves" thing, made popular by the movies.

Admittedly, this is a less obvious "falsehood" than some stories, as it is mentioned in The Silmarillion and it was an early theory that Tolkien had for their origin. However, it's well documented that he later became uncomfortable with this and was in the process of changing it when he died. It also wasn't the only "active" theory in Tolkien's notes, from which The Silmarillion and all the other History of Middle Earth volumes were compiled after his death - the only constant is that Melkor/Morgoth created the Orcs in mockery of the Elves.

It irritates me that the torture/mutilation version has become the most commonly accepted one. The vast majority of Tolkien lore has had to be constructed from unpublished notes which often conflict with each other, so I have no idea why this idea has stuck around just because it was in a manuscript of The Silmarillion when it's a relatively rare example of us actually knowing whether Tolkien intended to keep something or not.

It's a good background story. The creatures seen as being the pinnacle of ''light'' twisted into the opposite. It shows how deep corruption can run and hey, I bought into it so that's probably the thing with most people.

I couldn't have put that better myself. I really, really, couldn't.

So... on a side note? Does anyone notice how much more heroic the Elves have to be to go into battle? A Human risks maybe 40 - 50 years of life if they die early. An Elf can only die from violence or sadness (though I think that last one was just in the movies) so they risk eternity. That's pretty impressive as a concept. I'll stop rambling now.

Thank you

And yes, I always think that every time an Elf goes into battle, I actually find it quite moving. It also means it really frustrates me when people say things like "Thranduil should have sent his troops against Smaug." I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Elves can die of grief or losing the will to live, but it's very rare. If you're referring to Arwen in the movies though, she died because Elves who marry mortals forfeit their immortality (relatedly, the great tragedy of Elrond in LOTR is another thing I don't think gets appreciated enough).

Pretty sure she died one year after Aragorn passed away due to a broken heart. It's pretty tragic because Elrond was right, he grew old, he passed away, and she was left alone until her time came.

 

[Eamar]

Pretty sure she died one year after Aragorn passed away due to a broken heart. It's pretty tragic because Elrond was right, he grew old, he passed away, and she was left alone until her time came.

Oh yes that's true, it's just that she doesn't really count as an Elf at that point for the purposes of trying to establish how Elves can die under normal circumstances. She would have eventually died anyway.

But yes, it is tragic. That story's in the Appendices in the books, and I remember the first time I read it, just flicking through the Appendices, reading about languages and stuff and then BOOM - completely heartbreaking story. I cried so much.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The Undying Lands are protected by the Valar (basically the gods), who way outrank Sauron (a Maia). When the men of Numenor tried to reach the Undying Lands (spurred on by Sauron, incidentally), the Valar sank the entire island and killed all of its inhabitants, including Sauron's physical body.

Oh okay, thanks!

I always wondered what the hell the deal with that was.

 

[Thaluikhain]

And as for the Lord of the Rings: Giant flying birds flying into a barren wasteland with a giant Eye that watches everything...Sauron would bring his whole army down on them in seconds. The whole point of only sending nine walkers was to move in secret and keep the quest hidden, because as we saw, the more people who know about it, the worse it gets.

Well, the Eagles did fly in at the end, and beat up Sauron's own flying monsters.

OTOH, as for the Hobbit, yeah. It'd just take them asking the Eagles for help, and the dwarfs saying no. Or, to fit the theme, Thorin getting mad and refusing further help from people who didn't stop Smaug destroying his home, even if it makes no sense.