MOBA Players Enjoy

[RanD00M]

So this is kinda like the bug from when Skarner was first released in LoL, when he ulted he could back in a mere fraction of a second and instakill anyone he ulted.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

[snip]

Thanks for that. Some of those points intrigue me - I'm still unsure precisely how you can deny a turret. My concept of denying is that you force players out of range of experience and last hits. I like the idea of the variety of item abilities, not so much the extra power of abilities (seems as if it would increase frustration, i.e., if I fail I get frustrated, if I get hit I get frustrated). But anyway, as it's F2P I will probably have to play around with it for a bit.

 

[NightHawk21]

Funny video, does that still work? This video however contains the best clip. Start at 5:20.

 

[Rastien]

[snip]

Thanks for that. Some of those points intrigue me - I'm still unsure precisely how you can deny a turret. My concept of denying is that you force players out of range of experience and last hits. I like the idea of the variety of item abilities, not so much the extra power of abilities (seems as if it would increase frustration, i.e., if I fail I get frustrated, if I get hit I get frustrated). But anyway, as it's F2P I will probably have to play around with it for a bit.

In the same way you use "A" to attack and move to a point on the map you target an ally creep or tower on low hp and you will attack it if you last hit it is denied. I explained this above in my post .

 

[Skin]

IceFrog's balance is brilliant

Hahahahahahahhahahaahhaahhhahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

 

[Aircross]

IceFrog's balance is brilliant

Hahahahahahahhahahaahhaahhhahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

Please have a deep understanding of Dota's mechanics before you make any ignorant posts.

 

[Madkipz]

IceFrog's balance is brilliant

Hahahahahahahhahahaahhaahhhahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

Better than his predecessors.

 

[Tanakh]

Y'know having a proper beta for a MOBA game is a pretty good idea... It makes the hilariously broken characters fixed before the game even comes out, though this is Valve... They playtest every single one of their games to death anyway

Ahh... DotA has been out for 9 years now, and since DotA 2 and DotA are EXACTLY the same barring the graphics... i am unsure what people here is talking about....

If you really want to play it without getting in the beta, go buy WC 3 or get HoN, its freemium this days and has almost the same mechanics (worse heroes IMO though).

I dunno... might be just me but i don't understand all the people being amazed by DotA 2 when all that has been around for a long time; guess it's LoL, Rise of Immortals and such lowering the skill celling and being so popular...

IceFrog's balance is brilliant

Hahahahahahahhahahaahhaahhhahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

Better than his predecessors.

Predecessors? You mean Blizzard?

 

[The Wykydtron]

Y'know having a proper beta for a MOBA game is a pretty good idea... It makes the hilariously broken characters fixed before the game even comes out, though this is Valve... They playtest every single one of their games to death anyway

Ahh... DotA has been out for 9 years now, and since DotA 2 and DotA are EXACTLY the same barring the graphics... i am unsure what people here is talking about....

If you really want to play it without getting in the beta, go buy WC 3 or get HoN, its freemium this days and has almost the same mechanics (worse heroes IMO though).

I dunno... might be just me but i don't understand all the people being amazed by DotA 2 when all that has been around for a long time; guess it's LoL, Rise of Immortals and such lowering the skill celling and being so popular...

IceFrog's balance is brilliant

Hahahahahahahhahahaahhaahhhahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

Better than his predecessors.

Predecessors? You mean Blizzard?

Worse Champions? Ah i'm out then, the Champions in LoL are really good and I've already found my favourite LoL Champion in Sona...

I <3 Sona, the last game I played had a hilarious metagame where the two enemies at Top would get so, so close to killing my lane partner Fiora then I would keep her just about alive with my heals while she picked up the double kill.

This happened around 5 times in a row. The chat was hilarious

"Sona, let Fiora die!"

"Hey, Heimer! Hands off my Fiora!"

He almost killed her the final time as well... Until I bullrushed him with the stun from the Ulti and forced him the hell away.

It took a full team gank to bring us down.

Yep, I will be buying the Pentakill Sona skin in the near future I think. XD

And an AP build Sona is all kinds of awesome! The harass is amazing since her Hymn of Valour projectile is guaranteed to hit even if they move out of range once it's fired. So you've got the support keeping the damage dealer alive while just waltzing up to enemy tower lobbing an ability at them, then just moving out of turret range before it can react.

 

[Rastien]

Spoiler

Y'know having a proper beta for a MOBA game is a pretty good idea... It makes the hilariously broken characters fixed before the game even comes out, though this is Valve... They playtest every single one of their games to death anyway

Ahh... DotA has been out for 9 years now, and since DotA 2 and DotA are EXACTLY the same barring the graphics... i am unsure what people here is talking about....

If you really want to play it without getting in the beta, go buy WC 3 or get HoN, its freemium this days and has almost the same mechanics (worse heroes IMO though).

I dunno... might be just me but i don't understand all the people being amazed by DotA 2 when all that has been around for a long time; guess it's LoL, Rise of Immortals and such lowering the skill celling and being so popular...

IceFrog's balance is brilliant

Hahahahahahahhahahaahhaahhhahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

Better than his predecessors.

Predecessors? You mean Blizzard?

Worse Champions? Ah i'm out then, the Champions in LoL are really good and I've already found my favourite LoL Champion in Sona...

I <3 Sona, the last game I played had a hilarious metagame where the two enemies at Top would get so, so close to killing my lane partner Fiora then I would keep her just about alive with my heals while she picked up the double kill.

This happened around 5 times in a row. The chat was hilarious

"Sona, let Fiora die!"

"Hey, Heimer! Hands off my Fiora!"

He almost killed her the final time as well... Until I bullrushed him with the stun from the Ulti and forced him the hell away.

It took a full team gank to bring us down.

Yep, I will be buying the Pentakill Sona skin in the near future I think. XD

And an AP build Sona is all kinds of awesome! The harass is amazing since her Hymn of Valour projectile is guaranteed to hit even if they move out of range once it's fired. So you've got the support keeping the damage dealer alive while just waltzing up to enemy tower lobbing an ability at them, then just moving out of turret range before it can react.

Not sure but i think he was saying the HON heroes are worse than dota 2 which i would agree with the balance is abit off in HON with some champs compared to dota.

Also legue hates stealth heros people whine so much about them they get nurfed into the ground the only one (since i last played) that was an okay stealth hero but not really stealth was akali and i dealth with her by pocket warding her.

Derp circle, Herp ward die now.

As for intresting heros in dota 2, invoker my god this guy is complicated and fun.

You have 3 base abilitys and your ultimate invoke.

You mix and match the 3 abilitys then invoke it to create a unique spell

you can create 1 of 10 spells.

check him out below

http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Invoker

 

[Aircross]

Y'know having a proper beta for a MOBA game is a pretty good idea... It makes the hilariously broken characters fixed before the game even comes out, though this is Valve... They playtest every single one of their games to death anyway

Ahh... DotA has been out for 9 years now, and since DotA 2 and DotA are EXACTLY the same barring the graphics... i am unsure what people here is talking about....

If you really want to play it without getting in the beta, go buy WC 3 or get HoN, its freemium this days and has almost the same mechanics (worse heroes IMO though).

I dunno... might be just me but i don't understand all the people being amazed by DotA 2 when all that has been around for a long time; guess it's LoL, Rise of Immortals and such lowering the skill celling and being so popular...

IceFrog's balance is brilliant

Hahahahahahahhahahaahhaahhhahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

Better than his predecessors.

Predecessors? You mean Blizzard?

Guinsoo couldn't balance if his life depended on it (look at what he's doing to LoL along with Morello and Zileas) and Eul kinda left DotA (he's working for Valve now though.)

IceFrog turned the DotA map into a competitive game. That's how good he is.

 

[Tanakh]

Not sure but i think he was saying the HON heroes are worse than dota 2 which i would agree with the balance is abit off in HON with some champs compared to dota.

Also legue hates stealth heros people whine so much about them they get nurfed into the ground the only one (since i last played) that was an okay stealth hero but not really stealth was akali and i dealth with her by pocket warding her.

Derp circle, Herp ward die now.

Thats what i meant, but was not talking about balance but about how they "feel".

Unlike LoL, DotA worries a lot less about balancing heroes for 1v1. For example if your hero is support, then he is made and balanced to support, not to carry or initiate. Also in DotA there are no "tanks" because there is no aggro... whatev

IceFrog turned the DotA map into a competitive game. That's how good he is.

And yet LoL is the ones the masses choose. Makes sense, bots and lower skill celling

Ohh well, i am running late on my GW 1 shedule to get enough points to look leet while doing RvR, toodles.

 

[Skin]

IceFrog's balance is brilliant

Hahahahahahahhahahaahhaahhhahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

Please have a deep understanding of Dota's mechanics before you make any ignorant posts.

I do have a deep understanding of Dota's mechanics. It has the same engine limitations as a 10 year old game by choice. And you kids think that its "balanced".

This cognitive dissonance is why I can't stand most of the Dota community.

 

[Aircross]

IceFrog turned the DotA map into a competitive game. That's how good he is.

And yet LoL is the ones the masses choose. Makes sense, bots and lower skill celling

That's because there are more casual players than competitive players, which will always be the case for any kind of video game. Sports also have more professional players than casual players.

Dota is a game made for competition.

LoL is a game made for casual play.

I do have a deep understanding of Dota's mechanics. It has the same engine limitations as a 10 year old game by choice. And you kids think that its "balanced".

This cognitive dissonance is why I can't stand most of the Dota community.

It's balanced because everything counters everything. Your team composition, your item build, what kind of lane line up you want to make, the heroes you ban.

What kind of team do you want? Early push? Babysit a hard carry? Strong in team fights?

What kind of team does your enemy have? Can you counter it?

They have a team that's strong in team fights? Pick Silencer or heroes with silences. Build Pipe to mitigate magic damage.

The choice is always yours to make.

Now that I've given reasons for why the game is balanced, please give me your reasons why the engine limitations make the game unbalanced.

 

[Rastien]

Spoiler

IceFrog's balance is brilliant

Hahahahahahahhahahaahhaahhhahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

Please have a deep understanding of Dota's mechanics before you make any ignorant posts.

I do have a deep understanding of Dota's mechanics. It has the same engine limitations as a 10 year old game by choice. And you kids think that its "balanced".

This cognitive dissonance is why I can't stand most of the Dota community.

I don't see the relevance between a 10 year old engine and balance? balance is relevant to the enviroment its being used in. You could have an entirley new game but the balance could be shite, from my experience with dota i have found it to be alot more balanced than legue but that may well be down to personal prefrence.

For example if you ignore a carry and let it farm, he will carry and destroy your team. Some champions will dominate in a 1v1 situation ursa being a good example assuming you can get up in their grill. But its balanced around team play and the roles each class fills not 1v1 which seems to be the balancing point legue seems to take as a general rule.

 

[YeOldeMoose]

For a guy who loves to go back and point out specific parts of his post, you were certainly quick to ignore your closing "Probably sums up how I would feel". Gives the impression you have already made up your mind and makes elaborating pointless.

I like to make myself clear, if that's what you mean. But no, I haven't made my mind up at all about the game, hence why I was asking for what you preferred about DoTA to LoL. Which you seem stubbornly insistent on not providing.

Ok, I will answer properly than. Thanks for clearing up what you meant.

The main difference between LoL and DOTA is the skill ceiling. Thats a rather broad term, so allow me to explain.

Just an example: denying. A central pillar of the game you have to master to become competent in it, something that is simply missing in LoL. You can deny towers, minions, even yourself. So the gap between a good player and a bad player grows, just with that little feature.

Another example: items with powers. In LoL you have something like, what, 12 active items? In DOTA its 30. Most of these items take mastering before you can use them to their full potential. They are, in essence, another ability, and one that must be learned, just like a regular ability. The blink dagger is an item that lets you blink away. You click on it and can flash to another spot in a certain radius. If you click outside of that radius, it doesnt port you to the very outer fringe of the radius. Instead, you cover less ground. So again, the gap between a good player and a bad player grows; a good one will be able to blink further while a bad one might end up moving only 2 feet.

Abilities also tend to be much more powerful. As a rule of thumb, you drop much faster in DOTA than you do in LoL. But again, the game offers more opportunities to avoid being ganked - observer wards for one. And again, you need to learn how to use wards to their full effect.

Having said all that, all these things arent that hard to learn. You can generally get the hang of an item or ability in a single match, if you use your brain and think about what you are doing. Some people simply refuse to do that, but you know what? Thats the kind of people you dont want on your team in a MOBA game.

So why is the big skillgap so great? Well, its competitive multiplayer. The point of it is to have the better player win. Games nowadays try to lower skillgaps to make the game more fun to so called weekend warriors. LoL and MW3 are prime examples, with MW3 being the much worse offender. However, it actually makes the game less fun for both a good and a bad player, and everyone in between. The good player gets frustrated because while he knows hes good, the game constantly rewards the enemy for failing anyway, and the bad player has zero sense of reward.

Yes, DOTA 2 is harsher. Yes, it will kick your ass in the first few games. But once you get the hang of it? Awesome. No, you wont dominate off the bat with faceroll characters the game hands you, but who cares? Take 10 hours and you will probably have more fun with the game that provides an actual challenge. The guy who wrote the IGN article probably spent something like 2 hours playing DOTA and was unwilling to learn.

I don't have any problems with DOTA 2, but I personally also prefer LoL. It annoys me when people say that LoL has a low skill ceiling and that it is easy compared to DOTA. I will however agree with you though if you send me a link to your LoL account where you are within the top 20 in the world. The game is easy right? So, even if you don't play LoL you should be able to do it in around a month right?

Look up someone called milkfat. He played HoN, which people claim is more "hardcore" than LoL. He said he'd be the top LoL player in 2 months. He got stomped even after high ELO players tried to carry him. Moral of the story, LoL isn't casual or easymode. Its easy to get into, yes, but that just lowers the barrier to entry. DOTA is very punishing, but that doesn't really make it "harder." All it does is make the games decided at the 15 minute mark as compared to having either team have the possibility to make a comeback and win.

 

[Skin]

I don't see the relevance between a 10 year old engine and balance? balance is relevant to the enviroment its being used in. You could have an entirley new game but the balance could be shite, from my experience with dota i have found it to be alot more balanced than legue but that may well be down to personal prefrence.

It is not balanced though. I mean, you could create a game with a hundred heroes, only have 20 of them competitively viable, and call that balanced (and the fanboys will fight tooth and nail proclaiming this great masterplan to be the second coming), but that makes it shit.

LoL has always been about casual gaming, so screaming out imbalance for a game like that is ridiculous. HoN has the same problems as Dota, since it was based off Dota. I know alot of the elitists like to look down on HoN as some broken, unbalanced mess, but the last two metagame shifts in HoN were identical to the ones in Dota... Hmm...

Alot of other AoS games in WC3 were far better in every way compared to Dota, but Dota is the largest and most well known. Tacking on "balanced" for Dota is just as much as a buzz word as "fun" for another game. It holds no weight.

 

[Tanakh]

Tacking on "balanced" for Dota is just as much as a buzz word as "fun" for another game. It holds no weight.

Balanced (DotA): Two coordinated teams of around the same skill in Captain's Mode have both almost 50% chance to win. There's your definition, the problem being that DotA is balanced only around not noob teams.

I don't have any problems with DOTA 2, but I personally also prefer LoL. It annoys me when people say that LoL has a low skill ceiling and that it is easy compared to DOTA. I will however agree with you though if you send me a link to your LoL account where you are within the top 20 in the world. The game is easy right? So, even if you don't play LoL you should be able to do it in around a month right?

Lower being the keyword, as in "Reversi has lower skill cap than go". But i honestly dont give a crap anyway, as both have a lower skillcap than SC!

 

[Rastien]

I don't see the relevance between a 10 year old engine and balance? balance is relevant to the enviroment its being used in. You could have an entirley new game but the balance could be shite, from my experience with dota i have found it to be alot more balanced than legue but that may well be down to personal prefrence.

It is not balanced though. I mean, you could create a game with a hundred heroes, only have 20 of them competitively viable, and call that balanced (and the fanboys will fight tooth and nail proclaiming this great masterplan to be the second coming), but that makes it shit.

LoL has always been about casual gaming, so screaming out imbalance for a game like that is ridiculous. HoN has the same problems as Dota, since it was based off Dota. I know alot of the elitists like to look down on HoN as some broken, unbalanced mess, but the last two metagame shifts in HoN were identical to the ones in Dota... Hmm...

Alot of other AoS games in WC3 were far better in every way compared to Dota, but Dota is the largest and most well known. Tacking on "balanced" for Dota is just as much as a buzz word as "fun" for another game. It holds no weight.

Could you provide examples of it being unbalanced? i'm not disputing that it isn't i just can't really think of any glaring examples personally. Same applys to legue of course and i enjoy all 3 games but dota 2 if my fotm at the moment.