Mods are Odd: Do they detract from a game's artistic merit?

[zehydra]

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Hm. It's really more like making Fanfiction and sticking them in the middle of their respective works. Like someone filming a movie scene, or taking a scene from another sci-fi moving and splicing it into a part of starwars.

Mods can't directly change the experience of the original work either, because once the mods are added, it's no longer the original work. That is, Oblivion + Mods != Oblivion.

 

[dyre]

If you want to compare video games to books, then mods are the fanfictions of books.

but most fanfiction is utter garbage, while mods contribute a huge amount to the quality of a game, especially Bethseda games, which are closer to platforms for mods than actual games

I'd say mods are closer to quality editors changing up a book rather than fanfiction

The quality of most fanfiction doesn't change its relation to the original work, though, so my point still stands.

eh, fanfiction doesn't add anything to the original (or vanilla) work though. Modding is really more like editing a work, adding chapters, etc

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

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Mods can't directly change the experience of the original work either, because once the mods are added, it's no longer the original work. That is, Oblivion + Mods != Oblivion.

I think that's a matter of semantics. For example, if you update to version 1.01, is it no longer the original work?

 

[zehydra]

snip

Mods can't directly change the experience of the original work either, because once the mods are added, it's no longer the original work. That is, Oblivion + Mods != Oblivion.

I think that's a matter of semantics. For example, if you update to version 1.01, is it no longer the original work?

I would consider all revisions done to a work by the original producer to be versions of the original work. The reason mods don't qualify as versions of the original work, is because the people who create the mods are not the original artists/creators.

 

[Bostur]

Mods do change the experience. I prefer to play a game in it's standard configuration first. I like to see what the developers intended before I mess everything up. Then I may look into what other people can do with mods.

This is the same for DLC content, I try to avoid all DLC stuff until I've played the game without it. As a digression, I would sometimes wish for DLC content to be better marked in a game so it's easier to avoid it.

 

[Erana]

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first off in my opinion games are not "art" i wish people would stop fooling themselves and trying to put video games up on the art pedestal(true,now to some degree they are protected by the first amendment) but they they are entertainment no more no less and to this day I've not heard any arguments that convince me otherwise and i wait to hear yours.

I just have to know- have you had any form of formal arts education? I mean, something beyond basic instruction.

my i ask the same of you or anyone else on this page.imo art is open to the individual.i don't see it as art.now since I've admitted not having schooling on the subject Erana would you please be oh so kind to show your degree in art.I'm pretty sure you don't have one either.

I have a BFA, and I'm starting grad school in fine arts this Tuesday. At one of the top five schools in America.

maybe you can actually come up with an actual real reason for me to change my mind.(though honestly you probably won't)

Oh, I was never intending to do anything like that. You've decided to be stubborn, so I can't really do anything over a forum that would change that.

All I was trying to do was to make you realize that it is a bit ignorant to preach your opinion, even implying that it is right simply because no one can change your mind, when you have nothing but a hastily crafted and uninformed understanding of art.

I mean, maybe you've spent hundreds of hours independently exploring the idea of what art is to you and the notion of video games as a medium, but there is no evidence of this.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you have done nothing to educate yourself on the subject at hand and then go about being extremely vocal about your incredibly biased views, I simply cannot respect it.
I hear so many people insist that games are not art, and a painfully small amount of these people have put any critical thought into their opinion.
Its like people adamantly defending a political view when they don't can't be bothered to read the news once and a while. Such behavior is simply a disservice to both sides.

I'm tired of this neither one of us is going to dissuade the other side,so all in all I'll just have to agree to disagree.you'll just have to be happy with that.

The point of snipping is to save space and delete some redundant posts from earlier in the conversation when the last quote or two are able to make the context clear.
It is rude to snip the entire thing, so I have put the conversation back.

That being said, I have made no argument on the topic of games as art, and you have not responded to the point I am making, so your response is illogical.

 

[lacktheknack]

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it's truly a sad day when you ask me about art.i asked for a simple request and only one person came close to changing my mind.as for burden of proof you would never accept my ideal of art any more then I'll accept your overly generalized idea of art.and getting mad with me changes nothing what so ever.btw booker is the only person on this thread who may actually be able to convince me otherwise.so in the end i say good night to everybody.maybe one day you'll change my mind but atm it just isn't going to happen.bye

So... You define video games as art BY YOURSELF when I ask you to, you still say you aren't convinced, and yet when I ask you why video games AREN'T art (I have no idea why you think they aren't, and you've given me no clue), you throw your hands up and sign off. I love how I'm supposed to convince you, yet when I try by actually trying to target why you think the way you do (which is how you convince people), you block me off and leave.

This wasn't a debate, this was a battle of wills.

no,this was a waste of everybody's time(didn't sign off actually browser crashed)mine especially.believe what you will doesn't change anything.and btw the defintion i gave earlier is the ones i ascribe to.so please feel free to toot your horn about it.

editnce again good night.

art

?noun
1.
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2.
the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3.
a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
4.
the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture.
5.
any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art;

It's like you don't even read my posts.

 

[Wayneguard]

Depends on the game. If Ico were to, say, have a nude Yorda mod, then yes it would detract. But if something similar occurred in unreal tournament, it would change nothing.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Trolling

Troll-feeding

I would consider all revisions done to a work by the original producer to be versions of the original work. The reason mods don't qualify as versions of the original work, is because the people who create the mods are not the original artists/creators.

Most of the time update/revision patches are done by a small team of support staff, with minimal involvement from the original artists/creators, who usually have moved on to other projects by the time the game has shipped. But that's mostly irrelevant, the point is that by making a tiny adjustment (e.g. changing the UI), you can hardly say you have just created a completely distinct work.

Games are in no way at all comparable to books or movies. Aside from the fact that they have a story they are not alike at all. Its like trying to compare apples and oranges, it just doesnt work so stop trying to do it.

First off, it's not that hard to compare apples and oranges. They're both fruit, they have tastes which can be described relative to each other, one's in segments, one has seeds in the center, etc. There's also the fact that I like apples but I don't really like oranges. Something about the texture of it makes me think I'm biting into a slug or something.
I just compared the shit out of apples and oranges. Comparing games to movies/books is easy next to that.

Also why the fuck do people give a shit about the are games art or now and how does this effect the context of games as an artform? You know what fuck it games are not fucking art so give it up already.

You're taking this a bit fucking personally.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

First off, it's not that hard to compare apples and oranges. They're both fruit, they have tastes which can be described relative to each other, one's in segments, one has seeds in the center, etc. There's also the fact that I like apples but I don't really like oranges. Something about the texture of it makes me think I'm biting into a slug or something.
I just compared the shit out of apples and oranges. Comparing games to movies/books is easy next to that.

I realy really hope you are not being serios because that would be extremely sad if my comment went right over your head.

Almost as sad as obvious irony going right over yours.

I'm saying, there are hundreds of ways you can compare movies/books to games. In fact, you completely misused the "apples and oranges" idiom. Apples and oranges are not the same, but they are comparable. In more explicit terms: you can compare apples and oranges, but you can't judge them by the same criteria (which is what the idiom means).

Here, I am not attempting to judge games by the same criteria as movies or games. I'm not claiming them to be the same, or assuming their basic values are commensurable (i.e. "the game Deus Ex is better than the book Neuromancer" -- that would be apples and oranges). I am simply saying that games and movies/books have a lot in common, and I think most people would agree, except for mods which are an oddity which doesn't really fit in with the artistic landscape.

If you would like me to list out all the ways that books/movies and games are similar, I could.