Money: The worst idea since murder.

[kawligia]

Shall we go back to the barter system? Our employers could pay us in chickens and ballpoint pens!

 

[capnpupster]

Actually the worst idea in human history is farming. When we were hunter-gatherers, we could always find our food, we ate a much healthier diet, and we lived 10 times longer.

10 times longer? Really? How do you figure? Cultures that switched over to agriculture did so because they couldn't find enough food. Why do you think it happened? You have absolutely no idea how much effort it is to hunt and gather your food(at least in most climates). Go out into the woods with eight or so of your pals and neolithic tools and see how long before you try to plant some food.

 

[LongAndShort]

What socialist crap is this? We need legal tender, our economy revolves around it, and any proposed economic changes would be based around money-systems. The only other option is going back to the barter system and the dark age economies.

What on earth has socialism to do with this?
Stop flaming please.

OT:
Money is only an evolved variant of the barter system, and it works.
It allows people to have specialised jobs, and allows society to allocate resources to more interesting projects.

I point at the post below yours. Its in these kinds of posts that all the socialists come out, yelling the superiority of their system (while forgetting that most current socialist economies still require legal-tender in some respect, even if everyone is given the same amount).

 

[A Weary Exile]

Money represents the relative value of a specific service or product. It is a largely standardised way of ensuring that the providers of a service or product are rewarded with a representation of the relative value of the service or product they have provided. If we were to give all services freely then those services would collapse in no time, because there would be no way of ensuring that the providers are compensated adequately for their efforts. Any transactions of any kind would revert to direct trade of products or services, meaning that any transaction ever made by anyone would be inherently and interminably negotiable because no standardised value is assigned to anything. And then nobody would ever bloody get anything done.

Such genius coming from such a strange avatar.

 

[Vuljatar]

Heres what we need: Socialism.

Everyones so against socialism for uninformed reasons but its a great thing in the right hands. For example, why does a man who lugs around heavy boxs all day, works all day, and comes home tired make less money than a man who sits at a desk all day? Socialism would make it so all men were truly equal. Capitalism give false equality, socialism gives real equality.

Because if those men traded places, the man who originally had the desk job would be able to carry boxes just as well as the other man, and the other man would likely have no fucking clue how to do whatever it is that the man with the desk job did.

Socialism and communism are fundamentally flawed in the way that they look at human beings. All men are not equal. All men have equal potential, but ultimately their worth is up to their choices and actions. That's the beauty of capitalism; you have the opportunity and incentive to better yourself.

 

[Leaper]

Yes, money are bad idea, but no one created anything better yet.

 

[Pifflestick]

Heres what we need: Socialism.

Everyones so against socialism for uninformed reasons but its a great thing in the right hands. For example, why does a man who lugs around heavy boxs all day, works all day, and comes home tired make less money than a man who sits at a desk all day? Socialism would make it so all men were truly equal. Capitalism give false equality, socialism gives real equality.

Because if those men traded places, the man who originally had the desk job would be able to carry boxes just as well as the other man, and the other man would likely have no fucking clue how to do whatever it is that the man with the desk job did.

Socialism and communism are fundamentally flawed in the way that they look at human beings. All men are not equal. All men have equal potential, but ultimately their worth is up to their choices and actions. That's the beauty of capitalism; you have the opportunity and incentive to better yourself.

Bull. The man at the desk would struggle under the weight of those boxes and the man with the boxes would struggle with the computer. Not all men are created equal, but we all deserve an equal share because what we do is equally important.

 

[A Weary Exile]

Heres what we need: Socialism.

Everyones so against socialism for uninformed reasons but its a great thing in the right hands. For example, why does a man who lugs around heavy boxs all day, works all day, and comes home tired make less money than a man who sits at a desk all day? Socialism would make it so all men were truly equal. Capitalism give false equality, socialism gives real equality.

Because anyone with two functioning arms can move boxes and employees that can think are much harder to come by.

EDIT: How dare you sport that avatar of Sander Cohen while supporting Socialism, for shame.

 

[fenrizz]

Heres what we need: Socialism.

Everyones so against socialism for uninformed reasons but its a great thing in the right hands. For example, why does a man who lugs around heavy boxs all day, works all day, and comes home tired make less money than a man who sits at a desk all day? Socialism would make it so all men were truly equal. Capitalism give false equality, socialism gives real equality.

Obviously you are confusing socialism and communism.
Socialism is capitalism, but with social security, free education, free health care and so forth.
It does not make everyone equal, but it insures that every citizen has all the basics, that no one (ideally) is poor.

What socialist crap is this? We need legal tender, our economy revolves around it, and any proposed economic changes would be based around money-systems. The only other option is going back to the barter system and the dark age economies.

What on earth has socialism to do with this?
Stop flaming please.

OT:
Money is only an evolved variant of the barter system, and it works.
It allows people to have specialised jobs, and allows society to allocate resources to more interesting projects.

I point at the post below yours. Its in these kinds of posts that all the socialists come out, yelling the superiority of their system (while forgetting that most current socialist economies still require legal-tender in some respect, even if everyone is given the same amount).

All socialist countries have a certain degree of capitalism, a relatively high grade too.
These people are communists, but do not have any insight on the subject, and thus confuse it with socialism.

Heres what we need: Socialism.

Everyones so against socialism for uninformed reasons but its a great thing in the right hands. For example, why does a man who lugs around heavy boxs all day, works all day, and comes home tired make less money than a man who sits at a desk all day? Socialism would make it so all men were truly equal. Capitalism give false equality, socialism gives real equality.

Because if those men traded places, the man who originally had the desk job would be able to carry boxes just as well as the other man, and the other man would likely have no fucking clue how to do whatever it is that the man with the desk job did.

Socialism and communism are fundamentally flawed in the way that they look at human beings. All men are not equal. All men have equal potential, but ultimately their worth is up to their choices and actions. That's the beauty of capitalism; you have the opportunity and incentive to better yourself.

Socialism does not exclude capitalism, most socialist countries have a high grade of capitalism too.
Socialism is security to the less fortunate, it ensures (ideally) that no one is poor, has a roof over their heads and get enough to eat.

 

[Pifflestick]

Heres what we need: Socialism.

Everyones so against socialism for uninformed reasons but its a great thing in the right hands. For example, why does a man who lugs around heavy boxs all day, works all day, and comes home tired make less money than a man who sits at a desk all day? Socialism would make it so all men were truly equal. Capitalism give false equality, socialism gives real equality.

Obviously you are confusing socialism and communism.
Socialism is capitalism, but with social security, free education, free health care and so forth.
It does not make everyone equal, but it insures that every citizen has all the basics, that no one (ideally) is poor.

What socialist crap is this? We need legal tender, our economy revolves around it, and any proposed economic changes would be based around money-systems. The only other option is going back to the barter system and the dark age economies.

What on earth has socialism to do with this?
Stop flaming please.

OT:
Money is only an evolved variant of the barter system, and it works.
It allows people to have specialised jobs, and allows society to allocate resources to more interesting projects.

I point at the post below yours. Its in these kinds of posts that all the socialists come out, yelling the superiority of their system (while forgetting that most current socialist economies still require legal-tender in some respect, even if everyone is given the same amount).

All socialist countries have a certain degree of capitalism, a relatively high grade too.
These people are communists, but do not have any insight on the subject, and thus confuse it with socialism.

There have not been any purely socialist countries. A purely socialist wouldn't have any monetary system. Nobody has yet had the balls to make a purely socialist country.

 

[Mcupobob]

lazer beams.. That would be a awsome wallet.

 

[LongAndShort]

These people are communists, but do not have any insight on the subject, and thus confuse it with socialism.

Yeah I know and agree, but they reckon they're socialists so that's how I target them (its a lot easier). You've also gotta remember that if you do call them communists, they just go "Nah Ah" and hide beneath the socialist banner. I know I shouldn't make generalizations when ranting, but it makes life so much easier.

 

[A Weary Exile]

Heres what we need: Socialism.

Everyones so against socialism for uninformed reasons but its a great thing in the right hands. For example, why does a man who lugs around heavy boxs all day, works all day, and comes home tired make less money than a man who sits at a desk all day? Socialism would make it so all men were truly equal. Capitalism give false equality, socialism gives real equality.

Because if those men traded places, the man who originally had the desk job would be able to carry boxes just as well as the other man, and the other man would likely have no fucking clue how to do whatever it is that the man with the desk job did.

Socialism and communism are fundamentally flawed in the way that they look at human beings. All men are not equal. All men have equal potential, but ultimately their worth is up to their choices and actions. That's the beauty of capitalism; you have the opportunity and incentive to better yourself.

You just perfectly articulated my thoughts Vuljatar and I thank you.

Yes all men are born equal but their lives only hold the value that they attribute to it.

 

[quiet_samurai]

Do you mean the whole concept of money? Or just legal tender as in cash alone?

 

[fenrizz]

These people are communists, but do not have any insight on the subject, and thus confuse it with socialism.

Yeah I know and agree, but they reckon they're socialists so that's how I target them (its a lot easier). You've also gotta remember that if you do call them communists, they just go "Nah Ah" and hide beneath the socialist banner. I know I shouldn't make generalizations when ranting, but it makes life so much easier.

Believe me, as a devoted socialist, they probarbly annoy me more than they annoy you.
Giving us proper sociaists a bad name.

 

[captainwillies]

Ugh, no. You will never replace legal tender unless we go back to buying and selling people.

orrrr. you could "evolve the idea". you know what "evolve" means

What socialist crap is this? We need legal tender, our economy revolves around it, and any proposed economic changes would be based around money-systems. The only other option is going back to the barter system and the dark age economies.

last time i checked its not the dark ages anymore, surely with our advanced technology we can make a "resource economy" work.

Maybe someone should create a thread on how the world works

we know how the world works. we also know "that" it works. but is it a good world? don't you think it could be better? as a race what are we aiming for? a utopia? or is it that we just have no direction and are sagnating?

@TOPIC

http://www.thevenusproject.com/a-new-social-design/resource-based-economy

A Resource-Based Economy is a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resource; our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive to our survival.

 

[GrandAm]

What is money? It is a representation of energy within a society. I work so many hours in what I do, if you want it you need to exchange so many hours of what you do.

If the society whether American, African, or the Glogions from Rigil 6; if it has a division of labor and has a written language money will always exist. Paper, digital, stocks, etc. doesn't matter.

A dollar is only worth the ink and paper it is printed on. Same with a $100 bill. Physically they are basiclly the same. What seperates them in value? An agreement between humans in a society. A belief in an economy. Economy, an arbitrary concept that no other creature on this planet engages in. In the end the $1, $20, $100 bill in my wallet hold no more physical reality than than the Toilet Paper in my bathroom. Except TP is made of wood pulp and currency in America is made of linen.

 

[LongAndShort]

There have not been any purely socialist countries. A purely socialist wouldn't have any monetary system. Nobody has yet had the balls to make a purely socialist country.

Yeah, cause even Marx and Engels admitted that the perfect socialist state was an unattainable utopia and that at least partial capitalism was the only sound economic practice. They weren't into getting rid of Capitalism, they were into getting rid of class.

 

[Mcupobob]

Captilism is captilsm for everone socialism and communise is just captilism for the goverment.