Morality in video games, how can we improve it?

[Adam]

I believe there is alot of untapped potention for morality in video games. Ill give you an example: In the newly released Infamous you have to be either a saint or satan to unlock the badass attacks, with nor alot of thought or choice between 'save the children' or 'eat the children.'

I would like to see a video game that rises above that and actualy makes you have to pick between conflicting moral dilemas. More philosophy or ethical based gameplay in games would be alot better than the bullshit 'good' and 'evil' thing we have now. Dont get me wrong, there is nothing more satisfying than ripping shit up Sith style, but I dont really feel that im putting my own moral views into the game, it feels as if im being evil for evils sake or good for goods sake.

So I ask you people, what can be done to improve on the morality system in games?

 

[Zyxzy]

More criteria with which to measure one's actions.

 

[DannyBoy451]

By making games that are more like Deus Ex.

 

[WrongSprite]

Moral choices that aren't included in bloody dialogue choices.

 

[APPCRASH]

Don't allow people to choose good or evil. Well not first hand anyways. Give the player a chance to save a child in the beginning of the game just to fast forward a couple decades to find out he is the next Hitler. Make all decisions vague when dealing with the outcome, just like real life.

 

[Roamin11]

Well until a game gives you a choice to slowly become a good guy but knows bout your evil plan once they make you king to bring back slavery, see they should have it so you have like a diary or journal for your game that when found people will know all the secrets you held up inside so on and so forth, but there is no such thing, until moratilty can be like that they shouldn't use it that much as a selling point

 

[Kellerb]

I think more of a middle ground in moral choices, like fallout 3 tried. i mean, sacrificing yourself for an orphanage of abandoned baby seals or chasing homeless people with a flamethrower isnt an example of *choice* its just 2 routes.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

I believe there is alot of untapped potention for morality in video games. Ill give you an example: In the newly released Infamous you have to be either a saint or satan to unlock the badass attacks, with nor alot of thought or choice between 'save the children' or 'eat the children.'

I would like to see a video game that rises above that and actualy makes you have to pick between conflicting moral dilemas. More philosophy or ethical based gameplay in games would be alot better than the bullshit 'good' and 'evil' thing we have now. Dont get me wrong, there is nothing more satisfying than ripping this up Sith style, but I dont really feel that im putting my own moral views into the game, it feels as if im being evil for evils sake or good for goods sake.

So I ask you people, what can be done to improve on the morality system in games?

Mass Effect does that. The Witcher does that. It's overrated.

I'm fine with the good/evil systems in games like KOTOR and Fable. The "evil for the sake of evil" complaints are overblown anyway. You don't have to slaughter everybody you come across in Fable II if you don't want to, you just have the option.

Don't allow people to choose good or evil. Well not first hand anyways. Give the player a chance to save a child in the beginning of the game just to fast forward a couple decades to find out he is the next Hitler. Make all decisions vague when dealing with the outcome, just like real life.

The problem with that route is that it winds up feeling like the results of your actions are too arbitrary. Why bother with the whole morality thing when you're just as likely to destroy the world helping the little old lady across the street as making it a better place?

 

[SharPhoe]

Moral choices that aren't included in bloody dialogue choices.

That's a big one. no one ever says things that're obviously good or obviously evil in regular conversation, so stop making us do that.

 

[Obhraonian]

The first thing we need is more choice, it is usally either be very good or very bad (like infamous) with no middle ground. the second thing we need is better options for example the bad choices need to be more than the comical supervillain act or spoilt brat option.

 

[Angerwing]

I think they should put it on a Mass Effect style scale. Good and evil in that (or Paragon and Renegade) aren't really good and evil, but Friendly Puppy Saver, and Angrily Ruthless Yet Efficient. Also the 2 aren't mutually exclusive on the slider.

I do not however, like that it's all chosen in talky talk. I liked in Fable 2 though, how you could choose to give the warrants to the criminal (for only a tiny amount of evil points) and the end result was Old Town being the slums, while if you gave it to the guard (again, minimal good points) it's turned into a thriving economic centre.

I'm not fanboying over these games, but just bringing some good points up relevant to this discussion. I heard The Witcher's is pretty good, but I myself haven't played it.

 

[Jolan_BG]

I think more of a middle ground in moral choices, like fallout 3 tried. i mean, sacrificing yourself for an orphanage of abandoned baby seals or chasing homeless people with a flamethrower isnt an example of *choice* its just 2 routes.

I especially liked the quest with the hotel and the ghouls.Now that's what I call an important moral choice!

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Killable babies.

 

[Advent Antigone]

Stop making people choose between eating fifty kittens for breakfast or nursing an army of five years olds back to life.

They should start by using a five step moral chart rather than a two So it's not good or evil, but Evil, Less Evil, Nuetral, Mildly Saintly, And Saintly.

 

[Monkeysicle]

Right now there seem to be only two kinds of options. The first is you either play all good or all bad which usually means you have to play the game twice to unlock achievements or to see all that the game has to offer. Or there is you choose the "good" or "evil" options but in the end they are all meaningless towards the story and just do something slightly different to your avatars appearance or something like that. So I suppose to improve it you have to make a well balanced mixture of these options I suppose. I do not know I am not a game developer.

 

[Avatar Roku]

I like something like Mass Effect, where good and evil aren't mutually exclusive.

EDIT:Also, Daniel Floyd [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlOXAtPvMDk] talked about this a bit.

 

[JRCB]

Stop making people choose between eating fifty kittens for breakfast or nursing an army of five years olds back to life.

They should start by using a five step moral chart rather than a two So it's not good or evil, but Evil, Less Evil, Nuetral, Mildly Saintly, And Saintly.

Sounds like a plan.

Evil: Kick the kitten
Less Evil: Steal the kitten's chew toy
Neutral: Do nothing to the kitten
Mildly Saintly: Give the kitten a treat
Saintly: Give the kitten a cheeseburger

Is that pretty much the system?

 

[Deacon Cole]

I actually cover this over here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.118105#2281122] from that post and below.

Short version: you can't and what they've been doing with moral choices is less than smoke and mirrors and they should stop. Because these are not really moral choices and it is horrible to pretend otherwise. The only real meaningful decision the player ever makes is whether or not to play the game. That's it. These morality "switches" have little bearing on the game itself and resemble actual moral dilemmas the way two cats fucking resemble DaVinci's Last Supper.

In other words, I do not think there is untapped potential in moral choices in games at all and what they have been doing it deplorable.

 

[Tharwen]

I read an escapist article on this very topic.

Let me find it...

Aha! [A HREF="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/the-hard-problem/6067-Good-vs-Evil.2"]Here[/A] it is!.

 

[Solytus]

Personally, I thought Infamous handled the Karma system marvelously for two reasons, one being the realistic scenarios (In terms of the dilemmas presented, not the setting) and for the background chatter. On my first playthrough, I was a goody two-shoes, and despite my sense of heroism, the fact that the people that call the ruined city home were bossing me around like the city's personal butler seriously tempted me to switch sides. This subliminal temptation is a sign of a well-handled karma system, IMO.