Morals and Beliefs

[The Procrastinated End]

Did you ever think of disregarding their opinions and doing whatever you believed in regardless of what they say?

 

[InnerRebellion]

I have to say you're right. My mum, a devout Roman-Catholic, gets that I don't give a damn about her God and I'm not going to do something because it's what God says is right.

My dad is a Taoist, and he doesn't care.

Woah, woah, woah. Your mom doesn't seem to be a devout Roman-Catholic if she had you with a Taoist.

I mean, usually these types stay on their side of the fence, if you get me. Obviously unless he converted to Taoism later as is popular, it being one of those trendy mystical eastern religions (I say condescendingly as though I know the right religious/philosophical views to hold).

I mean, I guess it's not against her religion to be tolerant of her husband(lover?)'s religion, but it is kinda implied that she would be up in arms about that kind of thing, hell and ritual conversion being such a big part of that particular sect of Christianity. I mean, it just feels like if she were a true Roman-Catholic, she'd be quite distraught with your dad's (and your own) situation.

Personally, I don't like to put labels around something as profound and awesome as spiritual/philosophical ideas. Can't you mesh two religions or schools of thought together? Does that need a name? To me, it's like a deep metaphor. If you have to explain it so meticulously, it loses everything that makes it great.

Plenty of times she's made it known that it annoys her to no end, but frankly, we don't care.

 

[Ralen-Sharr]

I don't mean any of this to be offensive, so please nobody take it that way.

"god doesn't approve" - if you believe in god, ok fine but isn't that same god supposed to be all forgiving? If you 2 are already having sex I kinda think that sharing a bed is a very minor issue.

It's YOUR life, not theirs.

 

[Chipperz]

You're probably going to get over this soon.

If you're seriously engaged, and it's not just infatuation, then you have the rest of your life to sleep in the same bed as her. I don't see why three nights would matter for the sake of your family's beliefs.

It's the principle of the matter. His family has no right to tell him what he can or can't do with his fiancee. Especially in a room they're paying for.

I'm willing to money on the actual phrase used by his parents was "Our family are uncomfortable with the idea of you two sharing a bed before you're married, would you mind sleeping apart for these three days?" and he flipped out because they "didn't respect his lack of religion" or whatever the kids are calling it these days.

Honestly, I've seen nothing so far to suggest that his immediate family are anything less than cool with what he does with his girlfriend, and I have seen an eighteen year old complaining to a forum on the internet.

EDIT -

personally after that i wouldn't go and would say very little about it. if asked i would say something like "when you decide to start treating me as an adult i might consider taking time out my life to spend in your company" and i would not be drawn any further on the issue at all.

This is PRECISELY the kind of thing which will make sure your family never take you seriously again. Just a quick warning.

 

[snowman6251]

You're 18, an adult, capable of deciding for yourself. Do what you want. If your parents get mad then oh well.


Live your life for yourself, not your parents.

 

[Thaius]

Well I do think there is an objective morality and belief system. If Christianity turns out to be right, for instance, no amount of "But I believed otherwise!" will change your fate.

When you said objective and morality in one sentence I was curious and puzzled at the same time, but then you lost me with 'If Christianity turns out to be right [..] no amount [..] will change your fate. I must not get it, I suppose. But I would really like for you to elaborate.

Well that was a side-note, really. The topic seemed to also be asking if we believe in subjective morality, which I personally don't (in other words, I believe that certain things are absolutely right and absolutely wrong). The thing about Christianity was simply an example, point being, if one follows a morality and belief system different than it and it turns out to be true, you will not be saved simply because you thought you didn't have to believe in it. The same thing can be said for any belief system, really; even atheism (which yes, it is a belief system, though I guess there would be no sort of punishment for believing wrong in that case).

But that was not the point of my post, as it seems this question wasn't very important to the topic as a whole anyway. But it was asked, so I answered.

 

[Captain Booyah]

Technically, yes, you are in the right; you're eighteen, and an adult, and should be allowed to do what you want without your family's interference.

That being said, there's also the hypocrisy of you complaining how they're not respecting your views as an atheist, when you're not exactly respecting their views as Christians. I mean, really -- I'm all for standing up for oneself, but sleeping in a separate bed for three nights? Oh, the horror.

 

[worldruler8]

Ok, This is one of those "no right answer" moments. This is what I think you should do.

One, respect your parents and their beliefs, if they tell you to do something, you can object, but ultimately if you do as they say they most likely will not pull the ol'religion card. If you show yourself as a tolerant, open-minded, dare-I-say "Christian" non-christian. Show them that Morality has nothing to with Religion, but merely whether or not you are good person and had a good upbringing. I'm not saying you Bash those Bible bashers, but ultimately, respect their beliefs, and if they *don't* do the same, than they are no longer nice "christian" christians. Personally, I'm an agnostic, but that is another story.

 

[Shoqiyqa]

Nasty situation you have there, Shru1kan. The property ladder is a sod of a thing onto which to try to jump, especially at 18 and while still in college. Yes, they are being ridiculous. They're letting some ancient bunch of mistranslations of a collection of ancient fairy tales overrule humanity and common sense. It's not quite as bad as refusing to take someone or call a taxi to take someone to hospital because driving is work and it's the sabbath, but it's on the same tangent.

I was going to say you should probably not go to the reunion, so I'm glad to see that in your last paragraph. I loathe being expected to go along with other people's collective delusions.

They're your family. You take the good with the bad, it's how it goes.

Tell that to Casey [http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23402659-the-loved-and-trusted-uncle-who-raped-then-strangled-his-two-year-old-niece-in-her-bed.do]. Horrible link, but I couldn't find the video I wanted to link.

Spoiler: It's a [i

Concrete Angel[/i] intro.]It's a Concrete Angel intro that explains in silent titles that: "Connie was fifteen when she was raped by a family member. She was one of 20,000 children abused by a family member in northern Europe every year. By the time I got her letter, she had already committed suicide."

Not that I'm comparing this situation to that, but it does establish that somewhere way out there is a part of the line where you really shouldn't be taking the good with the bad. Just how much of what sort of bad you take with the good is up to you.

In your case, you don't really need to pull the ejector seat lever, so have somewhere to go before you start running. Don't burn your bridges, either. You've played a part in their surreal play for eighteen years, so you've earned to right to take them for every penny of inheritance you can.

Yes, I'm old and cynical.

 

[Shoqiyqa]

The thing about Christianity was simply an example, point being, if one follows a morality and belief system different than it and it turns out to be true, you will not be saved simply because you thought you didn't have to believe in it.

Pursuing your side-note, does that mean that this Christian god would condemn someone to eternity in hellfire for being the best Buddhist she possibly could because she honestly believed it was the right thing to do?

You're probably going to get over this soon.

If you're seriously engaged, and it's not just infatuation, then you have the rest of your life to sleep in the same bed as her. I don't see why three nights would matter for the sake of your family's beliefs.

It's the principle of the matter. His family has no right to tell him what he can or can't do with his fiancee. Especially in a room they're paying for.

Even more so as it's just to conform to the rest of the extended family's religious beliefs.

 

[tzimize]

Alright, kind of ranty and ragey.

Tonight, I got rather pissed off with my parents. I'm 18, attending community college, and recently got engaged. Now every year, we have a family reunion. Its 4 hours away, and my family wanted to invite my fiancee (they think shes my GF to avoid confrontation with her parents, been about 6 months and we got engaged at month 5.5) I sure as hell didnt want her in a hotel room with my family. And I wouldn't ask my cousins if she could crash there with me (they're all religious, so shed have to sleep far away from me), because they're strangers to each other.

So, to avoid awkwardness, I decided to ask if I could split the cost of a room with her, and just crash with her. (Literally crash, only time in hotel is like from 11PM till 6AM before we get back up) A grand total of 3 nights. We don't sleep with each other, ever, but we do have sex, which my parents are aware of.

Despite the rest of my family being of a religious persuasion, my immediate family is not religious at all. I get along with all of them, even if I do resent them dragging me to church and trying to convert me each year.

My parents said no, and were completely adamant. They KNOW we have sex, but they wont let us share a bed. The reason? GOD WONT APPROVE. Completely out of left field. I was rather shocked. I argued, saying that I was raised in a setting that let me make my own moral compass, not one that spewed out memorization of a book. I am a good person. I respected all of my parent's beliefs (maybe questioned, but never disobeyed outright) for 18 solid years. I have a job, a car, and I am basically living at home for convenience. And my mom doesn't want to let me go till after community college is over, really.

All I wanted was 3 nights where we went by a belief shared by me, an atheist, and my girlfriend, a presbyterian. That sleeping together strictly in the sharing of a bed sense is okay, that we just don't want to feel so fucking lonely every night. Even if it is just a few nights. They go into what the extended family would think (and ignored the fact that they didn't have to fucking announce it), and said I would be basically disowned. I love my family, and because of this god bullshit they would shun me for an innocent act of finding comfort in my fiancee's warmth. When my fiancee met my uncle at his house, he pulled me aside and told me blatantly that we needed to keep it christian in his house, like I would fucking make out with her in front of all of my cousins from in town. He even met her at my house with family members there too, and I didn't do a single thing unseemly or unchristian.

Suddenly I go from respecting religion but politely declining it to hating it with such an intense passion that I would go back in time and burn every holy book right now if I could. I loved the uncle who took me aside before that, we were both rather sarcastic with each other and I always found him hilarious. Now I know that my family is brainwashed beyond repair, that it is unacceptable for me to share a room that I would be forced to pay half of either way or she can't even go. My beliefs are shit, because Jesus says so, basically. I borderline hate them all. My fiancee is the sweetest girl I know,, and my mom and dad would agree. That stops when the claws come out from my family, they just join them.


So... discussion. Am I in the right? I think that if we have to pay for the room, we get a say in how it is used. I mean, I'm not going for the first time in all of my life because of this utter shit. Any similar experiences where someone shitstomps your beliefs for no good reason?

Sorry OP you cant argue with religion, its not based on anything rational. You either accept/believe it or you dont.

Sorry your family is such a bunch of (imo) douches but there you have it. You will most likely never convince them of anything useful, and you are stuck with them. At least it seems you have a decent life otherwise and a fiancé that you love. Be thankful for what you have (it makes life easier/happier) and ignore the things you cant have.

Morality does not exist except in the minds of the one that believes. There is no universal wrong and right, but it seems you have a healthier grip on what is "right" than your family. Take care of yourself and raise your children to be like you instead of your parents. Best thing you can do for the world.

 

[Shoqiyqa]

if asked i would say something like "when you decide to start treating me as an adult i might consider taking time out my life to spend in your company" and i would not be drawn any further on the issue at all.

In my limited experience of older people bothering to listen beyond the tenth word ..... no, wait, that doesn't count. In my experience, they're likely to stop listening after the tenth word and assign you age 8 at that point, maybe 12 if you're lucky.

 

[Thaius]

The thing about Christianity was simply an example, point being, if one follows a morality and belief system different than it and it turns out to be true, you will not be saved simply because you thought you didn't have to believe in it.

Pursuing your side-note, does that mean that this Christian god would condemn someone to eternity in hellfire for being the best Buddhist she possibly could because she honestly believed it was the right thing to do?

Well that would depend on circumstances and interpretation. This is definitely an area of debate among theologians, depending on the circumstances surrounding the situation. I will say that Christianity not about being good, it's about accepting a free gift; much simpler, actually. I'll also say that any religion requires that it be correct: the god of Christianity and the god of Islam really cannot co-exist: one is right and the other is wrong (assuming either are right to begin with). But in order not to derail the thread, that's all I'll say.

 

[CaseySmith]

Don't fucking poor hate upon religion because of some foolishness from your family. I'm a Christian, and I wouldn't have a problem with it. Stop bitching and harden the fuck up. If you feel they don't have the right to tell you what to do, don't let them. If they really care about you they need to learn to respect your beliefs as well. Respect and tolerance is a two way street.

I'd expect it's a little hard if a chunk of your family, which you've most likely have known for a long time, is suddenly ready to 'disown' you over something like this.

I personally think that people who are ready to come to such lengths to uphold some frivelous belief, are the greatest scum of the earth. You do NOT disown family over things like this, it's both cruel to the target and manipulating.

 

[KaiRai]

Sorry but I would have just not went. Really you are an adult now, and they should realise that. They should also respect that you're an atheist. When people are that fanatical about ANYTHING I tend to avoid them. Same would be said if my family were die hard Mario fans and demanded I speak in an Italian accent all weekend.

I'm with your decision, although "burning every holy book" is perhaps a bit far. Just accept that they're too hardcore. There's nothing you can do but ignore their forcing of beliefs on you. Put it this way to them, if a Mormon or a Muslim came to visit, would they make them drink alcohol? Same thing to an extent.

 

[spartan231490]

ur 18, do what you want. I doubt your parents will disown you. I'm not just saying this, in your position, i would do exactly that, and my parents could react to it however they chose, but they couldn't stop me. They can't stop you, you're 18 and they can't stop you from renting a hotel room in your own name, and splitting it with her. Although, it might be worth it just to rent two singles, it will be more expensive, but you just have to weigh the difference in cash against domestic tranquility.

 

[DonMartin]

My religion is simple. My religion is kindness.
-his holiness the Dalai Lama

This should be what any man of any faith should focus on.

 

[gravitii]

let's see, lots of things to address here

1. Yes, you're in the right since you're legally an adult and the one paying for the room, but I think both you and your family are blowing this thing way out of proportion. Come on they're your family, don't let something so small do any more damage than necessary. Either just deal and respect your parents or just share a room regardless and try to avoid confrontation over it, simply avoid the subject from then on out and try to have a good time. You have to admit getting so mad about this is a little immature, although your family is at fault here, I too have had to deal with overly religious tight-ass parents in my life, although mine are fine. yay me.

2.a. Atheists stop hating on us religious peoples!! I understand that you deserve respect but so do us. When you encounter fanatics know that not all of us are like that (I am a devout christian (protestant that is) and there's nothing wrong with me. I believe in science and respecting others and usually don't preach at people, some of my best friends are jews and atheists and there's no issue. People who are religious fanatics would still be fanatics regardless of religion, blame the individual, not the group, at that applies to all groups of people.) I know people who are overly religious are annoying, but if you understood their backround it would make sense (if your raised a certain way.../desperate people cling to religion so they're probably deeply hurt inside etc.) and when people try to convert as annoying as it is keep in mind that they think they're saving you from hell to enlighten you and help you and so you go to heaven when you die, so try to view it as a misguided act of kindness and caring for you. Seriously I'm sick of the stereotypes about christians being psychopaths who don't believe in science who are stict and unforgiving and hate gays and wear white and slay undead and have healing powers and... wait i'm getting carried away, but you know what i mean. Most christians are normal, and there are a million different sects of christianity and some are so tiny so if they act a certain way don't hold all other christians accountable. Respect is a 2 way thing.

2.b. I know it's certain christians' fault that there is such hate and stereotyping towards us. once again i say i am a devout christian and i think there are so many freaks out there who take it way too far. I'm sure you can all think of examples but we're not all like that. the christians of the world do need to calm down if we want to not get treated this way. and cramming our religion down peoples throats isn't good. please people in general need to act a little more cool-headed, especially in these turbulent times.


off topic but has anyone heard of the Communist Rules for Revolution? it's a hoax and political tool but it's surprising how much of it has come true, due to the work of both parties (I'm referring to in America by the way, i sometimes forget this is an international site with lots of europeans.)