Oh look, Jim Sterling made essentially the same argument that Moviebob did in early 2012.
Christmas has come early.
Christmas has come early.
Movie Defense Force: Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
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To kill a mockingbird had good child actors, and that was made back in the 60s.anthony87 said:
OT: I used to watch this movie a lot as a kid, and would always argue with older people who denounced it, but after seeing a bit of it recently, I must admit, it's not quite the masterpiece I remember it being. But I do still enjoy it, and I think we can all agree, at least it doesn't have Hayden Christensen.
Defending episode 1 while saying episode 2 was worse seems to be becoming a thing at least on the escapist.
im curious or you liked episode 3 I have to admit I kind of like it, as a popcorn film at least.
im curious or you liked episode 3 I have to admit I kind of like it, as a popcorn film at least.
I also agree with Jim. TPM is just mediocre bad. The other two prequels fly straight off a cliff. I'll never understand people who think those are better than TPM.
1) Definitely agree about the battle droids. A cheap, disposable technological solution that fails half the time but doesn't need training or discipline or demand a raise, benefits, or time off? With a master OFF switch to prevent them from turning against their masters? That's exactly how a short-sighted, profit-minded corporation would fight a war!
2) I liked the pod race. It was a nice nod to Ben Hur, just like a lot of the memorable scenes from the original trilogy likewise reference classic films. My only complaint is it lasts a bit too long.
3) The Qui-Gonn/Obi-Wan/Darth Maul duel is pretty cool. I actually don't mind it being so polished and choreographed: it's two fully-trained Jedi at the top of their game fighting an elite, fully-trained opponent who was sent because he could challenge them. What are the circumstances of the duels in the original trilogy? New Hope: Old man vs. a cripple. TESB: brash, barely-trained rookie vs. cripple who avoids the fighting half the time by Force-projecting heavy objects. ROTJ: Young Jedi at the height of his powers destroys crippled Sith.
The duels in the other prequels I despise, however. Dooku vs. Yoda and Sidious vs. Yoda are jokes, as is Grevious, and Anakin vs. Obi-Wan started out great and almost undid all the ill will I had towards the prequels--until halfway through the fight, some goofy-looking droids pop up and make stupid little beeping sounds. At that moment, Star Wars was dead to me.
4) You're right, Jar-Jar isn't as prominent as we remember. He's just always around there in the background when other idiotic stuff is going on. I actually liked the rest of the Gungans. They had some interesting tech, and were willing to fight an army of battle droids on equal terms, which is more than the human Naboo did. They also recognized that Jar-Jar was a complete idiot and exiled him, so more points in their favour. The prequels might have been better if they'd ditched Jar-Jar and brought in that other Gungan.
1) Definitely agree about the battle droids. A cheap, disposable technological solution that fails half the time but doesn't need training or discipline or demand a raise, benefits, or time off? With a master OFF switch to prevent them from turning against their masters? That's exactly how a short-sighted, profit-minded corporation would fight a war!
2) I liked the pod race. It was a nice nod to Ben Hur, just like a lot of the memorable scenes from the original trilogy likewise reference classic films. My only complaint is it lasts a bit too long.
3) The Qui-Gonn/Obi-Wan/Darth Maul duel is pretty cool. I actually don't mind it being so polished and choreographed: it's two fully-trained Jedi at the top of their game fighting an elite, fully-trained opponent who was sent because he could challenge them. What are the circumstances of the duels in the original trilogy? New Hope: Old man vs. a cripple. TESB: brash, barely-trained rookie vs. cripple who avoids the fighting half the time by Force-projecting heavy objects. ROTJ: Young Jedi at the height of his powers destroys crippled Sith.
The duels in the other prequels I despise, however. Dooku vs. Yoda and Sidious vs. Yoda are jokes, as is Grevious, and Anakin vs. Obi-Wan started out great and almost undid all the ill will I had towards the prequels--until halfway through the fight, some goofy-looking droids pop up and make stupid little beeping sounds. At that moment, Star Wars was dead to me.
4) You're right, Jar-Jar isn't as prominent as we remember. He's just always around there in the background when other idiotic stuff is going on. I actually liked the rest of the Gungans. They had some interesting tech, and were willing to fight an army of battle droids on equal terms, which is more than the human Naboo did. They also recognized that Jar-Jar was a complete idiot and exiled him, so more points in their favour. The prequels might have been better if they'd ditched Jar-Jar and brought in that other Gungan.
Honestly i loved the phantom menace when i first watched it. Granted, i don't think i was even eight years old at the time and never saw the original movies. I personally never had a problem with the prequals. Like i said, i loved the first one and i think revenge of the Sith is a pretty good movie. Attack of the clones did bore me to tears though. When i learned how much hate this film in particular recieved i was a bit surprised, especially about the whole midiclorian thing which i didn't deem important at all and quickly forget about.
Anakin is a character i find to be completely unlikable and not deserving of being Darth Vader but in this movie i found him to be allight. He's not all that good and by no means steals the show but i got no reason to hate him as much as teenage Anakin who comes off as a whiny kid desperately looking for reasons to believe all the mean jedi's are out to get him. Ugh, fuck him! i was glad when he was cutt in half and fell into lava!
Anakin is a character i find to be completely unlikable and not deserving of being Darth Vader but in this movie i found him to be allight. He's not all that good and by no means steals the show but i got no reason to hate him as much as teenage Anakin who comes off as a whiny kid desperately looking for reasons to believe all the mean jedi's are out to get him. Ugh, fuck him! i was glad when he was cutt in half and fell into lava!
I saw the original trilogy when I was a kid. I liked the first movie (I still do, without the awful new special effects), but the other 2 felt unnecessary and I was not impressed. I sometimes see them on TV, but I usually skip to the next channel. The third movie (VI) is the worst offender, because it features those damn Ewoks. To this date, I feel that the Star Wars games (X-Wing and Tie series, Jedi Knight 1 and Outcast) did a much better job than the original movies did, and most of my mental images of Star Wars actually come from those games. I doubt that we will see another X-Wing Alliance anytime soon.
As for the prequels... Phantom Menace wins by default, because Anakin... ups, Hayden Christensen is not present. I don't dislike the guy and I don't blame him for ruining Vader. I blame the script and the director for that. I once forced myself to rewatch the entire series, but I had to stop about 20 minutes into the third movie. Once in a lifetime is one time too many.
Anyway, if Star Wars fans think they have it bad, they should stop and say a small prayer for us Star TREK fans. We can all agree that the SW prequels were bad movies for one reason or another. But all I can say bad about the new Star Trek movies is the bloody lens flare. And even that isn't bad by default. However, once you meet someone who says "I love Star Trek!" "Which series?" "Frack, the series, I love the movie. Those old bastards are too boring".... then and only then do you really feel the Dark Side growing in you, blow up a planet and strangle someone with mind control alone.
As for the prequels... Phantom Menace wins by default, because Anakin... ups, Hayden Christensen is not present. I don't dislike the guy and I don't blame him for ruining Vader. I blame the script and the director for that. I once forced myself to rewatch the entire series, but I had to stop about 20 minutes into the third movie. Once in a lifetime is one time too many.
Anyway, if Star Wars fans think they have it bad, they should stop and say a small prayer for us Star TREK fans. We can all agree that the SW prequels were bad movies for one reason or another. But all I can say bad about the new Star Trek movies is the bloody lens flare. And even that isn't bad by default. However, once you meet someone who says "I love Star Trek!" "Which series?" "Frack, the series, I love the movie. Those old bastards are too boring".... then and only then do you really feel the Dark Side growing in you, blow up a planet and strangle someone with mind control alone.
Thank you for assuming that I didn't get the point he was making. The video still had no real relevance to it.Mahoshonen said:
Yeah, sorry, no. I won't deny that the original Episode IV battle had more emotional weight behind it, though not for the reasons you seem to think. By that point in Episode IV they'd done little but quickly gloss over the relationship between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader. It wasn't really until the later movies that the relationship between the two received more than some cursory development. The only reason there was any emotional impact in that fight was because Obi-Wan's old and nearing the end of his life anyway, and has to face down a man who supposedly hunted down and killed the rest of the Jedi, and all of this happens after you spend the movie growing attached to him and seeing him guide Luke down the path to becoming a Jedi. His relationship with Darth is really secondary at that point since it had next to no real development and was really more of something they simply stated then moved on from as quickly as it came up.
But even acknowledging that it had more emotional weight because of the connection to the characters (a connection which they at least tried to somewhat replicate with Qui Gonn if we're going to be honest for a second), it's still a terrible battle in every other way imaginable. You think it looks like they weren't even trying to hit each other in the Phantom Menace? Well at least they weren't standing around doing more talking than actual fighting and every now and then smacking their lightsabers together to remind you that something big is supposed to be going on but really isn't. There's a lot of staring each other down, waving some glowing sticks ineffectively, and not much else. There was no real drama or tension there, and it made these supposed masters of their weapon look like complete morons. Trying to watch that scene now that I'm not five years old anymore is honestly kind of painful and I usually wish they'd just skip to the part where Obi-Wan dies so they can get back to things actually happening. It's an awful fight, poorly paced, and with very little actual tension because nothing ever actually happens and they take a long time getting to that nothing ever happening.
The emotional impact may not be there in Episode I, and some of the choreography is certainly a bit sketchy in places, but at least there's an actual battle happening, and it really is quite well paced as Jim said.
I don't find the prequels too terribly bad, although they certainly aren't "OMG amazing" or anything. Attack of the Clones is by far the weakest, with only the battles near the end sort of making up for it. Revenge of the Sith is my favorite actually, and is the best of the 3 that can come across as an actual Star Wars film if it had some slight tweaking here or there. Phantom Menace is...OK for me. Its not bad, its not good, its just OK. While Jar-Jar is annoying, the stuff he does in the end make up for it like you said. Darth Maul was pretty kick ass, and shame about what they did to him. I pretty much agree with all of your points, but I still think ROTS is the best.
All my opinion of course!
All my opinion of course!
Yeeeeah. Can't agree with yah on this one Jim. Good points all, I just don't agree. I find the film to be unwatchable. I'm no uber Star Wars nerd, but I do love the original trilogy something fierce. The prequels were terrible and I think they don't challenge children at all, even though they are supposedly, "Kids movies". You're quite brave to take this stance though bruthah! Kudos. (I do thank god for you btw. You're a good egg, sonny jim.)
AHAHAHA, Yeah, he's trolling us now, but in a good way.
Actually, I have to say, that fan made edit actually does make this movie watchable. As Moviebob says about such things, the fan had to "rip out its guts" to do so, basically re-scripting nearly half the darn movie.
Still, it's funny how such basic, yet masterfully done, edits were able to take a movie I hated and make it quite watchable. I now understand those behind the scenes docs about how editors had issues with Lucas way back in the day.
Actually, I have to say, that fan made edit actually does make this movie watchable. As Moviebob says about such things, the fan had to "rip out its guts" to do so, basically re-scripting nearly half the darn movie.
Still, it's funny how such basic, yet masterfully done, edits were able to take a movie I hated and make it quite watchable. I now understand those behind the scenes docs about how editors had issues with Lucas way back in the day.
Personally, I prefer Clones to this one simply for the fact that I found Obi-wan's subplot where he's following leads to find the source of the assassination attempts very intriguing and more captivating than nearly all of Menace's decent scenes put together.
I could never understand why Epp1 got so much hate, grated it came out when it was 9 and I loved it then because, well because to my little 9 year old self though it was epic and wasn't really looking 'deep' into the movie. But having watch it many times since, i still find it an entertaining, funny (at time) and generally a cool movie. But i think even if it was the epic movie all the die hard fans were expecting people would still hate it, why? Because expectations are always greater than the actual thing, you see this with movies such as Star Wars and games you have been waiting for years for (except Duke Nukem, that was just shite). So i guess i love/ed the movie so much is because at 9 years old i was not expecting a awesome, epic, the empire strikes back movie spectacular but instead was just excited to go to the movies. And i dont care waht people say, Jar jar was awesome. But i do agree with you Mr Sterling, attack of the clones, completed and utter shite!
I will concede that out of all the prequels, Episode I is the only one I tolerate and will watch if I'm given enough liquor.
Jar-Jar annoyed the hell out of me and almost ruined every scene he was in. The fight scenes were pretty awesome, and that's about the nicest thing I will say about them.
Jar-Jar annoyed the hell out of me and almost ruined every scene he was in. The fight scenes were pretty awesome, and that's about the nicest thing I will say about them.