MovieBob's thoughts on the ME3 ending controversy

[Fox242]

I just watched his review of the situation on The Game OverThinker, and holy crap does he not get it.

He tries to apply movie and storytelling logic to video games, and it's laughable. It's like watching someone trying to fit a square puzzle piece into a round hole. His entire argument basically revolved around the idea that art cannot be altered by the audience or it stops being art, therefore gamers have no right to ask for the game to change.

BAM! Yoko Ono, and her Cut Piece performance art
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfe2qhI5Ix4

Here's what it all boils down to: Bob Chipman is making an uninformed decision about a game series he hasn't played, doesn't seem to care for, and whose medium he doesn't understand the fundamental qualities of. Of course he's going to act like an ignorant ass.

I'm done with him, and I think any gamer who actually respects player choice and empowerment in video games should be done with him too.

I just saw it too. The guy is so far up his own ass. I love how he complains about patches and DLC and attempting to fix things. I guess that people who demand that game companies fix things that break games are fools. They might as well just take their brokn product and shut up.

 

[OniaPL]

There's a big difference between not liking something you bought and getting a plothole ridden mess of a bowel movement that was the ending. Mass Effect: Deception was a plothole ridden mess of a bowel movement. They're having it rewritten. I don't see MovieBob championing that piece of offal and the sanctity of literary art. So why champion the game? Simple answer - because MovieBob is insecure when it comes to videogames-as-art and needs to champion it in order to reaffirm his views. Complex answer requires a psychological look at Bob's tendency to shout obscenities at anyone who disagrees with him, which I'm not qualified to do.

Comments about Bob aside, where does this idea come from that if the story is bad or full of plotholes, that means it has to be rewritten or you must get a refund? That is fucking batshit crazy. Just tell Bioware that the story is shit, please make it better in the next BW game and walk away. This is just embarrassing.

 

[David VanDusen]

I suggest bob "spoils the ending" for himself before he continues to comment on this issue. And look deeper into it.

You know he won't. He's right, all others against him are wrong and are holding the industry back and/or are blithering idiots who shouldn't be trusted to drive or vote. That's the way his world works.

Well to be fair... he is right. He's right for everything he listed on his post on G.O. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he wasn't right. Just because it doesn't fall into what you want to be the case doesn't mean he wasn't right.

The fact remains that people are bitching about his comments even though, by and large, his comments support the IMPORTANT argument here.

Lets lay it out on the table here....

Are there multiple endings? Then they didn't lie.
Are choices you choose effecting which ending you get? Then they didn't lie.
Did they cheap out on players/buyers expectations? Probably.

I'd like to point out that those three issues, all of which Bob commented on and was correct on, are valid and easily the major issue.


That all being said, and I address the following to the gross ignorant masses here in this single thread who all seem to be foaming at the mouth to bash on someone because that person didn't get quite the erection for a game series as you did, why not do something more productive with your lives? Quite frankly, I've read more posts by people I'm glad to hopefully never meet the likes of in real life on this single thread than I ever have via youtube comments. Degenerates finally fits to label a collective more than on /b/, and it's home can now reside here with Mass Effect fans.

 

[Fox242]

I suggest bob "spoils the ending" for himself before he continues to comment on this issue. And look deeper into it.

You know he won't. He's right, all others against him are wrong and are holding the industry back and/or are blithering idiots who shouldn't be trusted to drive or vote. That's the way his world works.

Well to be fair... he is right. He's right for everything he listed on his post on G.O. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he wasn't right. Just because it doesn't fall into what you want to be the case doesn't mean he wasn't right.

The fact remains that people are bitching about his comments even though, by and large, his comments support the IMPORTANT argument here.

Lets lay it out on the table here....

Are there multiple endings? Then they didn't lie.
Are choices you choose effecting which ending you get? Then they didn't lie.
Did they cheap out on players/buyers expectations? Probably.

I'd like to point out that those three issues, all of which Bob commented on and was correct on, are valid and easily the major issue.


That all being said, and I address the following to the gross ignorant masses here in this single thread who all seem to be foaming at the mouth to bash on someone because that person didn't get quite the erection for a game series as you did, why not do something more productive with your lives? Quite frankly, I've read more posts by people I'm glad to hopefully never meet the likes of in real life on this single thread than I ever have via youtube comments. Degenerates finally fits to label a collective more than on /b/, and it's home can now reside here with Mass Effect fans.

I'm not a Mass Effect fan. And bravo for just copy pasting arguements which I have already seen and taking the same sort of mindset that Bob takes. Bioware lied to its fans, they said "No A,B,C endings". They gave players A,B,C endings. What the people who paid for this game got was a mess which did away with everything that they did over the years. There's narratives with flaws, and then there's narratives with plotholes that a mile wide convoy of Mac trucks could drive through. Bob was wrong, and acted like a massive prick to fans of a series he knows nothing about.

 

[Darkmantle]

I suggest bob "spoils the ending" for himself before he continues to comment on this issue. And look deeper into it.

You know he won't. He's right, all others against him are wrong and are holding the industry back and/or are blithering idiots who shouldn't be trusted to drive or vote. That's the way his world works.

Well to be fair... he is right. He's right for everything he listed on his post on G.O. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he wasn't right. Just because it doesn't fall into what you want to be the case doesn't mean he wasn't right.

The fact remains that people are bitching about his comments even though, by and large, his comments support the IMPORTANT argument here.

Lets lay it out on the table here....

Are there multiple endings? Then they didn't lie.
Are choices you choose effecting which ending you get? Then they didn't lie.
Did they cheap out on players/buyers expectations? Probably.

I'd like to point out that those three issues, all of which Bob commented on and was correct on, are valid and easily the major issue.


That all being said, and I address the following to the gross ignorant masses here in this single thread who all seem to be foaming at the mouth to bash on someone because that person didn't get quite the erection for a game series as you did, why not do something more productive with your lives? Quite frankly, I've read more posts by people I'm glad to hopefully never meet the likes of in real life on this single thread than I ever have via youtube comments. Degenerates finally fits to label a collective more than on /b/, and it's home can now reside here with Mass Effect fans.

Fun fact, One of the developers specificallystated there would NOT be an A, B or C ending.

of note: the final choice in the game that determines what cutscene you get

synthesis
control
destroy

or in otherwords

A
B
C

they lied.

 

[wintercoat]

There's a big difference between not liking something you bought and getting a plothole ridden mess of a bowel movement that was the ending. Mass Effect: Deception was a plothole ridden mess of a bowel movement. They're having it rewritten. I don't see MovieBob championing that piece of offal and the sanctity of literary art. So why champion the game? Simple answer - because MovieBob is insecure when it comes to videogames-as-art and needs to champion it in order to reaffirm his views. Complex answer requires a psychological look at Bob's tendency to shout obscenities at anyone who disagrees with him, which I'm not qualified to do.

Comments about Bob aside, where does this idea come from that if the story is bad or full of plotholes, that means it has to be rewritten or you must get a refund? That is fucking batshit crazy. Just tell Bioware that the story is shit, please make it better in the next BW game and walk away. This is just embarrassing.

Fun fact: If I go were to go see a movie and were treated to a bullshit ending like ME3 has, I would demand a refund! If I bought the movie in a store? I would bring it back for a refund! If it were a book? Well, I'm guessing you can see where this is going. But suddenly, if the same thing happens with a video game, it's batshit crazy to demand a refund? You are the one being embarrassing, not me.

 

[Storm Dragon]

I'm gonna do something crazy and say...I understand both points of view and am pretty conflicted about it myself.

Finally, a kindred spirit.

 

[RaikuFA]

I just watched his review of the situation on The Game OverThinker, and holy crap does he not get it.

He tries to apply movie and storytelling logic to video games, and it's laughable. It's like watching someone trying to fit a square puzzle piece into a round hole. His entire argument basically revolved around the idea that art cannot be altered by the audience or it stops being art, therefore gamers have no right to ask for the game to change.

BAM! Yoko Ono, and her Cut Piece performance art
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfe2qhI5Ix4

Here's what it all boils down to: Bob Chipman is making an uninformed decision about a game series he hasn't played, doesn't seem to care for, and whose medium he doesn't understand the fundamental qualities of. Of course he's going to act like an ignorant ass.

I'm done with him, and I think any gamer who actually respects player choice and empowerment in video games should be done with him too.

I just saw it too. The guy is so far up his own ass. I love how he complains about patches and DLC and attempting to fix things. I guess that people who demand that game companies fix things that break games are fools. They might as well just take their brokn product and shut up.

I think he was reffering more to fixing story elements than bugs(which does need to be fixed). Which I really don't care about with this. Yes, its sad the ending wasn't good. Does it need to be changed? From what I've heard yes it does. However acting like Annie Wilkes and demanding donations back going to kids because it wouldn't influence the ending? Stop that.

 

[OniaPL]

Fun fact: If I go were to go see a movie and were treated to a bullshit ending like ME3 has, I would demand a refund! If I bought the movie in a store? I would bring it back for a refund! If it were a book? Well, I'm guessing you can see where this is going. But suddenly, if the same thing happens with a video game, it's batshit crazy to demand a refund? You are the one being embarrassing, not me.

Huh. Well, maybe that's the way it is in USA. You can get a refund for a bad story, sue people for looking at you funny and protest against proper healthcare without people thinking you are just being crazy.

You learn something new every day.

 

[boag]

did you only play me3 or did you play 1 and 2 as well?

I played all the Mass Effects so far, the original still being my favorite. Maybe I didn't mind the ending as much since almost all the questions I had going in were answered before the final assault.

Things like the Genophage, quarian/geth relations and even the rachni were all handled before I attacked the reapers. The only thing they really screwed up in the ending was the logic of the reapers and why they were motivated to attack us.

But if I applied similar logic to most movies/games I'm sure I could find the plot holes all over the place.

you are a far more forgiving person than I am.

I am basically soured on the whole situation because the rest of it kept making throwback calls to awesome events of the past, and in the end, when the culmination of my efforts where supposed to give me the biggest payoff, I got a nonsensical conversation with a ghost kid, and some screens that left more questions than it answered.

Right now I dont know what happens to the Normandy crew.

I dont know what happened to the Allied Fleet.

I dont know if I will get kittens and rainbows or rape and cannibalism.

The thing that most pisses me off, is that when all was said and done people, and I complained about it (as did so many other people), we were met with condescension and sometimes outright hatred.

I went to read the early BSN threads, most where pretty pissed off but they still held a modicum of civility because that place is 1 strike DING DONG BANNU and fuck yourself out of your games, and still the Bioware representatives dismissed them as idiots and haters.

If you had asked me three weeks ago, I would have anwsered Im disappointed, 2 weeks ago it would have been Im fucking pissed, ask me today, I dont give a fuck anymore cause im not looking forward to anything by Bioware anymore.

 

[wintercoat]

Fun fact: If I go were to go see a movie and were treated to a bullshit ending like ME3 has, I would demand a refund! If I bought the movie in a store? I would bring it back for a refund! If it were a book? Well, I'm guessing you can see where this is going. But suddenly, if the same thing happens with a video game, it's batshit crazy to demand a refund? You are the one being embarrassing, not me.

Huh. Well, maybe that's the way it is in USA. You can get a refund for a bad story, sue people for looking at you funny and protest against proper healthcare without people thinking you are just being crazy.

You learn something new every day.

Wow...nice argument. Can't think of a rebuttal so attack the country I'm from.

You disgust me.

 

[Thammuz]

Fantastic. Just Fan-fucking-tastic. And Fallout 3 loses the great mood, setting, and the dozens and dozens of great narratives in it because Bethesda's publisher didn't jerk them around and they were able to respond to fans' feedback on the game.


To all of you people who are in favour of a change to the ending: This is what it's like to be a believer in God on the Internet. Gang-rape warfare. People who you both agree with and respect most of the time honing in on one issue of importance to you and obliterating you on a personal level for daring to express a different viewpoint than theirs. They lump everybody in your category together, despite the fact that there are many different manifestations of it, then savagely insult you when you come back with facts either shortening the pedestal they're on or attempting to keep the discussion civil.


I've lost Destructoid, Kotaku, and IGN to this mess. I've been put against one of my personal favourite Internet gaming figures, Adam Sessler. I watch Jim Sterling, Bob, Yahtzee, and even many YouTube and Games Radar content through a filter now that I know they think people who have this one common notion are less than them. In less than a month, I've gone from nearly 20 well-respected pieces of gaming media to identify with, to one. Exactly one. So that's it. I'm done. I'm not arguing these points anymore, I'm not seeking neutral ground. I'm taking my God damn ball and going home. I'd say it's been fun, but it hasn't, Escapist.


One more thing:

I think I know why the Escapist is so sympathetic to the cause of a publisher fucking a developer of content around concurrently with a dip in the quality of their ARTISTIC, PRODUCT.

Goddammit, why did you have to go and shatter my faith in humanity?

But yeah, you're right. A little piece of myself is still hoping that when this shitstorm finally reveals itself for what it is (and with the whole insider point of view from te writer at bioware whose name i don't remember, it just might happen) journalists will finally see how bad this whole thing really is. They more than likely never will, because people would rather shoot themselves rathe than admit they were wrong, which ise even more blatant in this particular debacle.

So yeah, i lost much respect for most of you people. Shame on you for defending one side in the name of a principle that could not have been misappropriated more. Shame on you for crying entitlement whenever someone says they've been fucked over, regardless of their legitimacy. Shame on you for calling artistic integrity on an ending that ends with a message window urging you to buy DLC. And most of all shame on you for defending companies like EA, whose policies have consistently been "fuck customers, developers and the medium over for our own gain" for years now. How dare you say that WE are holding the industry back while protecting the company responsible for "Sin to Win" and the Dead Space 2 ad campaign?

Thank god for developers like CDProjekt, who have the balls to actually respect their fans and treat them like human beings, instead of sacrificial offerings to the almighty dollar.

This has nothing to do with artistic integrity. It has nothing to do with authorial intent. It's two people who thought they could go behind everyone's backs and get their massive ego a good stroking by putting the whole ending in the bag by themselves.

I'm studying computer sciences hoping to become a game programmer and designer myself, and i would not fucking do something like that. And i would not let it slide in my company. This is bad business practice, bad design and bad behaviour, all at once. People not respecting their role, established procedure and common decency in a project that involves a boatload of people and even more money.

I'm aiming for a job in this industry. I WANT it to succede, and i want it to thrive and evolve. Letting this shit slide does NOT help. It means that integrity (actual integrity, like respecting your audience and your colleagues who worked on the previous titles, like Kerpyshyn), is not important, and that companies are allowed to treat games like they are just toys, unworthy of respect. If games are works of art, then quality control must be applied. Fans have all the right to cry foul when someone takes over from another artist and ruins something good. Artists have the right to ignore them, and the wallets will do the talking.

Do not be fooled, we are NOT defiling the artistic view the series always had, here. We're demanding a respectful treatement for the series we love, that has sadly been passed in the hands of those who seem to be colossal incompetents.

 

[OniaPL]

Fun fact: If I go were to go see a movie and were treated to a bullshit ending like ME3 has, I would demand a refund! If I bought the movie in a store? I would bring it back for a refund! If it were a book? Well, I'm guessing you can see where this is going. But suddenly, if the same thing happens with a video game, it's batshit crazy to demand a refund? You are the one being embarrassing, not me.

Huh. Well, maybe that's the way it is in USA. You can get a refund for a bad story, sue people for looking at you funny and protest against proper healthcare without people thinking you are just being crazy.

You learn something new every day.

Wow...nice argument. Can't think of a rebuttal so attack the country I'm from.

You disgust me.

Nope, that wasn't an argument. It was batshit crazy babbling, as is this whole ME charade.
And I disgust you? Yay! Always happy to make new enemies.

I just can't comprehend this whole thing. To me it just sounds wrong, and silly. People say that the story should be rewritten/they should get a refund because the story is bad/not what it was supposed to be/full of plotholes etc. etc.
I just can't see the justification for these demands.

But the "truth" probably lies somewhere in the middle. The Mass Effect fans are too close to the series to look at the situation objectively, while some others have no idea why the fans feel this way.
Let's try this one more time: Why are these demands justified?

 

[boag]

Let's try this one more time: Why are these demands justified?

They are not justified.

but here is the catch 22.

Bioware right now has alienated their fanbase, they have gone on to lengths to shut them up, censor them and outright dismiss their fans as crazy idiots.

What do you think is going to happen when the next game rolls over?

 

[JediMB]

The way to fix this is simple, don't buy from Bioware anymore, Cut the Cord, Leave em in the Dust, say Goodbye, yes they lied to you, yeah we put a lot of time and energy and emotion into the outcome of this story, absolutely the ending is terrible and insulting, your darn right that you have a right to be angry, so use that anger to prove to EA and Bioware that You Don't Need Them. Their are other companies with stories that are better that you can give your money to and you will. If you keep asking for a better ending you prove to them that they can give you bullshit on a plate and you'll gobble it up, complain a bit, and eat the next plate they put out. Walk Away.

This is pretty much what I've decided to do today... hard as it is to let go of the Mass Effect universe and its lovely characters. It feels like shit, but I just don't feel I can risk keeping the faith in BioWare any longer. I just have to accept that all those awesome people on BioWare's teams are forced to dance to EA's tune now. I've tried to defend EA for years, but it's time for me to stop forgiving them.

Fuck it all to hell.

 

[Deathninja19]

I understand Bob and I understand the fans to a degree. However, rather than wanting to change the eneding, I wonder why people can't learn to vote with their wallets. I played ME 1 and ME 2. I did not like some things about ME3 (such as Origin only) so I decided that I would not purchase it.

You can't unbuy something, the complaints came after everyone bought it and got to the end. DLC I agree people shouldn't buy it if it upsets them but they had no way of knowing about the ending. The closest you could come is those guys who returned the game to Amazon.

Dude, sometimes you don't like the product you buy. That doesn't mean it's faulty and that you need a refund. What I mean by voting with your wallet is skip their next game, or dont buy it day one.

Hey I'm with you I have a pile of stuff sitting around that I hated. What I was saying is that the voting with your wallets argument is moot since they bought it before they realised it sucked.

 

[spectrenihlus]

Let's try this one more time: Why are these demands justified?

They are not justified.

but here is the catch 22.

Bioware right now has alienated their fanbase, they have gone on to lengths to shut them up, censor them and outright dismiss their fans as crazy idiots.

What do you think is going to happen when the next game rolls over?

Exactly right now we are telling Bioware you better fix this or we will never purchase a product of yours ever again.

 

[Thammuz]

The way to fix this is simple, don't buy from Bioware anymore, Cut the Cord, Leave em in the Dust, say Goodbye, yes they lied to you, yeah we put a lot of time and energy and emotion into the outcome of this story, absolutely the ending is terrible and insulting, your darn right that you have a right to be angry, so use that anger to prove to EA and Bioware that You Don't Need Them. Their are other companies with stories that are better that you can give your money to and you will. If you keep asking for a better ending you prove to them that they can give you bullshit on a plate and you'll gobble it up, complain a bit, and eat the next plate they put out. Walk Away.

This is pretty much what I've decided to do today... hard as it is to let go of the Mass Effect universe and its lovely characters. It feels like shit, but I just don't feel I can risk keeping the faith in BioWare any longer. I just have to accept that all those awesome people on BioWare's teams are forced to dance to EA's tune now. I've tried to defend EA for years, but it's time for me to stop forgiving them.

Fuck it all to hell.

I will give them this last chance. IF they fix the ending, and actually give us a decent conclusion, with closure and a coherent option for us to take, i migh even forgive them.

If they make us pay for it, eh, it's EA, it's not like we don't expect that.

If this doesn't get fixed, and we end up with a DLC that makes the shitty ending even shittier, goodbye bioware it was nice knowing you. I'm moving with CDProjekt in their mother's basement, they might be younger and less experienced but they have the passion that you left behind.

 

[caladors]

I have skipped most of what has been said because I don't want to taint my thoughts with the thoughts of others though I am sure that the same reasons will ring true to most fans ears.
Oh and spoilers encase anyone is going complain this far in...

First were not fan boys, when Shepard died and was brought back in number two we didn't say they were selling out with a Jesus analog because of that.
Sure he comes back but you know what differs? Everything! dispite the biblical refences they go out of there way to reject the Jesus analog after that by giving choice to the players, do you dance with the devil (TIM<) or do you send you men to hell so you can get out of there, do you go the hard yards.

Mass effect 2 was pretty much a perfect follow up to mass effect, why? because they got everything right, fans weren't happy with the old system so they changed, I didn't love the new combat system it seemed as I said at the time "Gears of Modern Halo 2" but that was a small complaint and we didn't like the planet scanting. So you know what they did? They released some kick ass DLC to to show us what they could do playtesting with DLC and awesome story yeah I'll have some of that, infact when I point to how DLC can be done right I point to Mass Effect 2.
Our complains you know what they did with them, they had a joke with us via Liar of the Shadow Broker, didn't like planet scanning well here is Project Overlord what do you think oh by the way you want Dues ex Machina it's right there. I here your craving Mass Effect 3 so were going to tie stuff together more for you with Arrival, is it needed for the story? No but it a cherry on top hell yeah.
They made a better game for all and I am happy that there was more of an audience for mass effect they are trying to bring hard Sci-fi to the main stream how cool is that.

The ending to number two fantastic either way even though there were only two choices. Do we use the weapons of the enemy against them or are we bigger than that, when the devil says play the fiddle with me do we flip him off?
Yet with those two choices they said more about mass effect than all three ever could in mass effect three.

First off this isn't art, it's not art at all. As someone who has played an enjoyed the game around three core princples 1. You choose work with in the rules or rail against them. 2. Your actions have consquenses and 3. It doesn't matter what your facing, you should fight against enemy no matter the odds.
I am not bringing anything outrageous here, 1. Is called paragon or renegade choices, it's a core principle. 2. Mass effect and Mass effect brought this home pretty hard not just the small things but the big things could you save Wrex it has consequences, did you save the council? so on and so on. 3. The reaper(s) Sovereign in Mass Effect, paraphrasing here but he says "I am the bringer of death" your retort be it renegade or pargon paraphrasing again. "Not tonight" Mass Effect 2 They say "Nothing can stop the collectors" Shepard?s response "Who says" The Illusive man says "Do as I say" You say "I'll do what I damn well like I am the guy on the ground and you, you'll live with it because I am the one getting things done"

The ending says no to all of those core ideas. It's no longer will you work within the system or outside of it? it's whom's choice do you make? Anderson's, The Illusive man's or "your own" what a facile cheap use of half baked psychology. It doesn't matter what you do in the end your choices mean nothing, aside from such a depressing statement that they try and fail horridly at sugercoating don't try and tell me otherwise everything results in the same things happening. The exact same things. And finally no matter what fight.
The protagonist of this epic, who has fought against the Reapers from the start and there agents be they the vassals of there direct will like collectors, those under there influence like Sarin or sniveling cowards like the shadow broker looking for a place to hide. Everytime we have stood up to them. Some of the times we used our words like with Sarin or other times we used our might like with the collectors and still other times we trusted it to others like with the shadow broker. But always both you and Shepard fought it doesn't matter in what manner you did so you still fought.

It's like a Star Trek movie ending showing that there is no hope in the future that only the dystopian chaos of capitalist greed awaits us or Star Wars ending with a 20 minute long talk on inner workings of the Light Saber.
Star Trek always has and always will be about hope in the future that we over come our inherent racism that people of all origins will work together in harmony together for a common goal, it won't matter if we a black or white, bald or female, all of those external images will give way to humanities inner desire to do good, it will be about how humanist or how logically should we approach something.
If the next Star Trek movie ended with A.M from I have no mouth but I must scream. There would be screams, screams of bloody murder not just from the fans but from main stream media because they know what it's about they would say ?This distorts Gene Roddenberry future of one we can look forward to a twisted parody?
If Star Wars ended with a Saw like torture scene so that someone could corrupt someone to the dark side no one would accept that. They would say what have you done? You took a movie about good verses evil and turned into surviving evil makes you evil.

Yet if fans decry the ending of a video game. Were just stupid fan boy's. Well there is another person who said it better ?We must hold them to a higher standard? Daniel Floyd of Extra Credits.
Just because we expect excellence and we settle for mediocrity do not thing when shown the outrageous that we will not be outraged.

 

[OniaPL]

I understand Bob and I understand the fans to a degree. However, rather than wanting to change the eneding, I wonder why people can't learn to vote with their wallets. I played ME 1 and ME 2. I did not like some things about ME3 (such as Origin only) so I decided that I would not purchase it.

You can't unbuy something, the complaints came after everyone bought it and got to the end. DLC I agree people shouldn't buy it if it upsets them but they had no way of knowing about the ending. The closest you could come is those guys who returned the game to Amazon.

Dude, sometimes you don't like the product you buy. That doesn't mean it's faulty and that you need a refund. What I mean by voting with your wallet is skip their next game, or dont buy it day one.

Hey I'm with you I have a pile of stuff sitting around that I hated. What I was saying is that the voting with your wallets argument is moot since they bought it before they realised it sucked.

From my point of view: I am a huge Dragon Age fan. I loved Dragon Age Origins. Becuase I loved it, I bought DA2 day one.
I voted with my wallet.
I hated DA2, and I did not like what I heard about ME3, so I did not buy it.

I guess what I am trying to say that this whole "voting" process should be done in the long run, rather than making demands now.
'Cause the inherent problem with consuming entertainment is that it may suck.