Multiplayer is ruining the quality of games

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thunderbug

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May 14, 2010
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Few things first a "multiplayer" game in my eyes is any game that is made solely for multiplayer. WOW is an example, COD MW2 is an example the former has no single player and the second has a shitty single player tacked on to make it seem more worth the price. But all no these games are made for multiplayer. You ask anyone who buys COD and he never says "oh i bought it for the single player"

Secondly i do play a multiplayer game, Eve online.

Now to the matter at hand.

Multiplayer games are destroying the quality of games for a few keys reasons. I wont say there ruining the industry as im not savvy with the sales figures, although the better single player games do pale in sales when compared to average multiplayer games.

So why is the multiplayer making games worse?

Reason 1 - story or lack thereof - The key difference between a single player game and a multiplayer (specifically MMO) game is that one is story driven the other uses a story to creating a setting. Taking 2 examples Mass Effect 2 and WOW. Mass effect 2 is a game which follows a story where your actions effect the world and endings. The story is the game as much as the gameplay. WOW on the other hand has a story which set the scene for the WOW world within which a bunch of people go round doing the same quests which have no impact on the world or anyone but themselves. This is not so much a developer fault as it is a fault of the style of game. Developers like to brag about there new MMO is somehow different but it always ends up the same grind. When looking at games like COD there is a pathetic story to add padding to the game and make it seem better value but COD is all about the multiplayer, meaning that what story it does have is beyond garbage.

Reason 2 - Character development - MMO's have none simple as that. COD and other multiplayer based FPS or TPS have very little. Taking Mass Effect 2 into account compared to any other MMO or Multiplayer based FPS or TPS. No one can argue that Gears for example has more Character development than ME2. Gears in IMO is one of the better multiplayer based games when looking at story and character development but even this in both aspects falls short of dedicated story games like ME2. The Character development in ME2 is immense and one of the best things about the game.

Reason 3 - Ease of production - MMO games have a large game world, usually in substandard graphics and no, story, cut scenes, character development to speak of. COD has 10 small maps, good graphics, bad story, bad character development. ME2 has a large game world, immense character development, well thought out story and back story, good graphics. So we can see that to produce product like ME2 would require much more effort than COD or WOW.

Reason 4 - Profit - This is a tie in to reason 3, but if a game which is easier to make sells better due to multiplayer, it is going to have bigger profits. Then more companies jump on the band wagon and there is even less high quality games.

Reason 5 - Old IP converted to MMO - This reason was sparked by the latest Old Republic game which sadly but not surprisingly has been turned into an MMO. KOTOR was one of the best games ever made without a doubt and no one with any sanity can argue that a game such as COD is better. The new Old Republic MMO will suffer from the same problems as all MMO in which is has a story (in this case provided by 2 single player games) with a tiny bit of story to add context to the meaningless events and quests that all players will be doing in the "grind". Now i know for a fact that no matter how good this MMO is no matter how slick it is. it will NEVER NEVER NEVER be as good as KOTOR 3 would have been. It will have no story no characters, no meaning, in short it will be a MMORPG.

These are all the reasons i can think of for now i will add more if i think of them. Story, character development, are both dying in games, back in the day most games had some sort of story and character development i mean they had to without the net multiplayer was limited and most games sold on the single player alone apart from the obvious Tekkens and other fighting games. There are still some quality products being made like the ME series, dragon age Origins (lets not talk about the cash cow of DA2), the Witcher 2, Elder Scrolls 4 and Fallout 3/NV, Metro 2033. All these games took real thought to make, and they are not just a few maps with some idiots with guns running around teabagging each other. It seams to me that the only games left which have anything that a good game should, ie a nice rich story and characters backed up by good gameplay and graphics are the RPG's. Even FPS games back in the day had at least some attempt at a story, Killzone 1, and Warhammer 40k Firewarrior to name some.

IMO its a sad day when the best selling games are unimaginative, drab, storyless, characterless, map packs with 2 new guns (*cough* *cough* CALL OF DUTY MW/MW2/WAW/BO/MW3/ *cough* *cough*) or a game which is basically a grind doing quests which make no difference other than to get 2 gold and 100exp. Especially when the only reason companies make these games is because the idiot consumer buys them like hotcakes lest they have to actually think or pay attention while playing a game.

Hopefully this trend will end but if games like The Old Republic are commercial successes, then other single player game series could be converting to MMO format.
 

efAston

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Sep 12, 2011
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I don't think we're losing much if companies beating a dead horse make games which lack content. There are still adventure games, stealth games, RPG's and shooters made by companies with a pedigree which by-and-large have all the single-player focus they had before the MMO thing.
 

Phlakes

Elite Member
Mar 25, 2010
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No, we're just getting multiplayer centered games now. And some good ones at that.
 

The Long Road

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Sep 3, 2010
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Did they just unfreeze you? Or have you recently taken to watching Zero Punctuation religiously?

Dude, this has been obvious for the last 5 years or so. Ever since people put a lot of effort into unseating Halo as the multiplayer king, the overall quality of games has fallen. Yahtzee has been making the case against multiplayer-centered games since... well, since he started.

Also, you keep bringing up ME2 as your sole example. Use more than one, please, because it just sounds like you're beating off to it here.
 

Dr. Crawver

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Nov 20, 2009
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believer258 said:
But... I thought Modern Warfare 1 was one of the best FPS campaigns ever, and the second one wasn't shabby at all...

Also, how the hell is multiplayer making the story, the characters, the levels, the guns, etc., any worse? The way I've always understood it, there's a team focused on the single player and a team focused on the multiplayer, and the interactions between the two isn't a whole lot.
it doesn't make them worse per say, what it does is it directs resources that would have been used on them away on other projects. you can use the two team argument, but ultimately games have a budget, and money spent in one area leaves less for others
 

Brainsaw

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May 8, 2008
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Oh no, more people wish to interact with one another either through competition or through cooperation. We can't have that! Joking aside I do agree. More and more emphasis is being put on multiplayer and in many cases the multiplayer aspect being placed under such emphasis causes the SP to suffer significantly.

What angers me most is that in many cases you have to play online for the multiplayer as many games these days are starting to neglect local play in favor of having everything online. That peeves me off to no end. It's why I've remained loyal to franchises such as Halo and Gear of War where if I want to play multiplayer with my brother or a friend it's no problem. However to play a game like Battlefield Bad Company multiplayer I have to have XBL just to play with the guy sitting next to me. I'm not going to pay 15 a month just to be able to play with my friend/broth 3 feet away from me.
 

Vivi22

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Aug 22, 2010
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Your argument seems to boil down to multiplayer focused games ruining the quality of games because they aren't single player games.

Not only is that a silly argument to make, but it's impossible to back up. Get over it. There are still plenty of great single player games, and there are even games that do both aspects well. Uncharted 2 immediately comes to mind, having an even better single player than the original and of similar length, but with a pretty enjoyable multiplayer added in as well.

thunderbug said:
All these games took real thought to make, and they are not just a few maps with some idiots with guns running around teabagging each other.
This statement alone pretty much shows that you have absolutely no understanding of how much thought and effort goes into making a truly great multiplayer game.
 

kikon9

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Aug 11, 2010
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Would this be a bad time to say that I pretty much exclusively buy games based on how good the multiplayer is?
 

w9496

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Jun 28, 2011
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I thought Gears had some good character development, and I love it for the campaign and co-op modes. People can argue that COD games are better than KOTOR, because it's a difference of opinion, and nothing else.

You like single player games with a story and hyper deep development, and that's okay. Other people like games that are quick and enjoyable fun, without a whole bunch of commitment, and that's okay too.
 
May 28, 2009
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Just here to knock some holes.

thunderbug said:
You ask anyone who buys COD and he never says "oh i bought it for the single player"
lololol, guess what? I've bought all of them for that reason, and out of all of them CoD 2 (from the glory days of CoD) has had the least compelling singleplayer campaign for me (also WaW's American side of the story).

It [The Old Republic] will have no story no characters, no meaning, in short it will be a MMORPG.
As it's a game that's not even out yet, there is no way to know this. God forbid that MMORPGs aren't an unchanging genre as you assume. I don't even play them, would prefer a KotOR 3, but am still anticipating this release. I take it you haven't even read of how much writing has gone into this game either.

thunderbug said:
Even FPS games back in the day had at least some attempt at a story, Killzone 1, and Warhammer 40k Firewarrior to name some.
"Back in the day"? What the hell? When were these games released, like five years ago? I certainly wouldn't call that "back in the day". At any rate, there's a lot more story to FPS games than there used to be. If you wanted "back in the day" FPS games, you could cite something like Doom, Castle Wolfenstein, or Duke Nukem 3D. Doom was "shoot things", Wolfenstein was more or less the same, except with some "shoot Hitler" added, and Duke Nukem 3D mixed it up with "they have our chicks, shoot them".
 

Lenin211

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Apr 22, 2011
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I figured that I might as well do a rebuttal to these arguments, seeing as I have nothing else to do.

thunderbug said:
Few things first a "multiplayer" game in my eyes is any game that is made solely for multiplayer. WOW is an example, COD MW2 is an example the former has no single player and the second has a shitty single player tacked on to make it seem more worth the price. But all no these games are made for multiplayer. You ask anyone who buys COD and he never says "oh i bought it for the single player"

lots of opinion but no evidence to cite in your first paragraph, not unexpected as you are frameworking your arguments in this paragraph

Secondly i do play a multiplayer game, Eve online.

Now to the matter at hand.

Multiplayer games are destroying the quality of games for a few keys reasons. I wont say there ruining the industry as im not savvy with the sales figures, although the better single player games do pale in sales when compared to average multiplayer games.

So why is the multiplayer making games worse?

Reason 1 - story or lack thereof - The key difference between a single player game and a multiplayer (specifically MMO) game is that one is story driven the other uses a story to creating a setting. Taking 2 examples Mass Effect 2 and WOW. Mass effect 2 is a game which follows a story where your actions effect the world and endings. The story is the game as much as the gameplay. WOW on the other hand has a story which set the scene for the WOW world within which a bunch of people go round doing the same quests which have no impact on the world or anyone but themselves. This is not so much a developer fault as it is a fault of the style of game. Developers like to brag about there new MMO is somehow different but it always ends up the same grind. When looking at games like COD there is a pathetic story to add padding to the game and make it seem better value but COD is all about the multiplayer, meaning that what story it does have is beyond garbage.

1. Not all games need to be story driven. You cite two examples from vastly different genres and address them as if they are the same (the genres being MMO and Action Rpg). These genres are different and one needs to acknowledge that they are different when comparing them. It would be like comparing a Pokemon movie to a slasher, you can't say that Pokemon are ruining the film medium because there isn't a scary antagonist killing teenagers at a camp with a machete. While that analogy might have been a bit extreme, it still needs to be addressed that MMO and RPG games are different in their structure and shouldn't be judged as the same.

2.You say that call of duty's story is pathetic and claim that multiplayer ruins the game by hurting the quality of the story. I would say that Call of Duty's singleplayer is not driven by story and is ,in fact, driven by the franchise's signature over the top action firefight gameplay. This means that even if the story is hurt by multiplayer, it dosn't impact the quality of the game. The game dosn't need an perfect story to be good. Especially in the case of Call of duty.




Reason 2 - Character development - MMO's have none simple as that. COD and other multiplayer based FPS or TPS have very little. Taking Mass Effect 2 into account compared to any other MMO or Multiplayer based FPS or TPS. No one can argue that Gears for example has more Character development than ME2. Gears in IMO is one of the better multiplayer based games when looking at story and character development but even this in both aspects falls short of dedicated story games like ME2. The Character development in ME2 is immense and one of the best things about the game.



1. You once again fail to recognize the difference between genres. A role playing game should have character development as that is one of the characteristic qualities of an RPG. Not all genres of games need character development on the scale of a Bioware RPG to be good. You cite Gears of war as an example of how multiplayer drags down character development and that there isn't as much character development in gears of war. While, admittedly, there is an emphasis on story in Gears, it is not the focus of the game. If the game had a shit story and still the immensely fun 3rd person, cover based shooting mechanics that it does, people would still enjoy the game.

2. Your logic is backwards, Multiplayer doesn't reduce the amount of character development in a game, a game with character development can't have multiplayer.
Mass effect two could not have had multiplayer because character development necessitates lasting impacts on the game world and their effects on the player character. Such a thing could not happen in an RPG. Lasting impacts on game world cannot be incorporated effectively and profitably into an MMO. The genres are different.


Reason 3 - Ease of production - MMO games have a large game world, usually in substandard graphics and no, story, cut scenes, character development to speak of. COD has 10 small maps, good graphics, bad story, bad character development. ME2 has a large game world, immense character development, well thought out story and back story, good graphics. So we can see that to produce product like ME2 would require much more effort than COD or WOW.

1. Your argument insists that a good game can only exist with story and character development. You fail to mention gameplay. If all that matters in a game is plot and character developent to make it good and if gameplay is unimportant (as you seem to be implying by the lack of coverage on the topic) then why don't we just watch movies? Because when it comes down to it, gameplay is what really matters in a videogame.

2. You don't mention in reason 3 why multiplayer makes games easier to make, you simply state this at the end that it is true, you also do not mention why a game that is easier to make is inherently worse than a game that is more difficult to make. You don't mention gameplay in your decision that it it easier to make an MMO than an RPG.


Reason 4 - Profit - This is a tie in to reason 3, but if a game which is easier to make sells better due to multiplayer, it is going to have bigger profits. Then more companies jump on the band wagon and there is even less high quality games.

1. How does a game selling well denote its inferiority? Wouldn't this, if anything imply that it is in fact superior?

2. Multiplayer doesn't make "less high quality games". As I have stated previously, a game needn't stand up on its story alone, that is the difference between the video game medium and that of film.


Reason 5 - Old IP converted to MMO - This reason was sparked by the latest Old Republic game which sadly but not surprisingly has been turned into an MMO. KOTOR was one of the best games ever made without a doubt and no one with any sanity can argue that a game such as COD is better. The new Old Republic MMO will suffer from the same problems as all MMO in which is has a story (in this case provided by 2 single player games) with a tiny bit of story to add context to the meaningless events and quests that all players will be doing in the "grind". Now i know for a fact that no matter how good this MMO is no matter how slick it is. it will NEVER NEVER NEVER be as good as KOTOR 3 would have been. It will have no story no characters, no meaning, in short it will be a MMORPG.


1. It is your opinion that KOTOR is "one of the best games ever made".

2.You say that MMOs "suffer" from not having a story. The MMO genre is different than the RPG one. Whereas RPGs are very plot oriented, MMOs are more based off of leveling and gaining experience.

3.One cannot say that either of genres are inferior as fact. All evidence will be based off of opinion. You seem to be a big RPG fan, as is apparent from your focus on story and character development in a game as the critical elements, and so have different criteria on what makes a game good. You cannot say that the influx of multiplayer games is "ruining the quality of games" because of all of the statements I have made previously in this debate. If
4.Multiplayer games sell better because they are better-
If what you say is true and games are ruined by multiplayer, then why are they so popular? You said in reason 4, profit, that multiplayer games make more money. People wouldn't keep buying these games if they were as bad as you say that they are. That means that either your claims are exaggerated and that a game dosn't need a great story to back it up to be good, or that your claims are wholeheartedly false.


These are all the reasons i can think of for now i will add more if i think of them. Story, character development, are both dying in games, back in the day most games had some sort of story and character development i mean they had to without the net multiplayer was limited and most games sold on the single player alone apart from the obvious Tekkens and other fighting games. There are still some quality products being made like the ME series, dragon age Origins (lets not talk about the cash cow of DA2), the Witcher 2, Elder Scrolls 4 and Fallout 3/NV, Metro 2033. All these games took real thought to make, and they are not just a few maps with some idiots with guns running around teabagging each other. It seams to me that the only games left which have anything that a good game should, ie a nice rich story and characters backed up by good gameplay and graphics are the RPG's. Even FPS games back in the day had at least some attempt at a story, Killzone 1, and Warhammer 40k Firewarrior to name some.

IMO its a sad day when the best selling games are unimaginative, drab, storyless, characterless, map packs with 2 new guns (*cough* *cough* CALL OF DUTY MW/MW2/WAW/BO/MW3/ *cough* *cough*) or a game which is basically a grind doing quests which make no difference other than to get 2 gold and 100exp. Especially when the only reason companies make these games is because the idiot consumer buys them like hotcakes lest they have to actually think or pay attention while playing a game.

Hopefully this trend will end but if games like The Old Republic are commercial successes, then other single player game series could be converting to MMO format.
 

Danceofmasks

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Jul 16, 2010
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Eh.

Street Fighter 2: World Warrior was one of the best games of all time.
So is Chess. And Basketball.

The assumption that video games is something you do alone is just move evidence of the versatility of the medium.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Nah, it's Tetris that is ruining the quality of games.

The story and character development sucked.

...

Some game genres are not your cup of tea. Deal with it.
 

Dagda Mor

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Jun 23, 2011
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thunderbug said:
Secondly i do play a multiplayer game, Eve online.

Now to the matter at hand.

Reason 5 - Old IP converted to MMO - This reason was sparked by the latest Old Republic game which sadly but not surprisingly has been turned into an MMO. KOTOR was one of the best games ever made without a doubt and no one with any sanity can argue that a game such as COD is better. The new Old Republic MMO will suffer from the same problems as all MMO in which is has a story (in this case provided by 2 single player games) with a tiny bit of story to add context to the meaningless events and quests that all players will be doing in the "grind". Now i know for a fact that no matter how good this MMO is no matter how slick it is. it will NEVER NEVER NEVER be as good as KOTOR 3 would have been. It will have no story no characters, no meaning, in short it will be a MMORPG.

Hopefully this trend will end but if games like The Old Republic are commercial successes, then other single player game series could be converting to MMO format.
First, in your post, you described EVE perfectly. Bland, boring, no plot, no characterisation...Second,you don't know anything about The Old Republic,do you? First fully voiced MMO, with a heavy focus on writing in plot.There are eight classes to play as, and, as I said, there is a heavy focus on plot. Did I mention the heavy focus on plot? Because BioWare claims that each of the eight class stories is the length of three KotORs.I bid you adieu.Research before drunkenly slamming your head on the keyboard for ten paragraphs next time.
 

ZeroMachine

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Oct 11, 2008
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No.

Really, honestly, just no.

I'm fucking sick of people saying games are getting worse, and I'm fucking sick of people blaming it on multiplayer.

So no.

Stop bitching about games you don't like.

And for FUCKING FUCKS SAKE, EVERYONE STOP SAYING THE OLD REPUBLIC WILL HAVE NO STORY.

IT WILL, story is its fucking gimmick, it's a BIOWARE GAME. IT WILL HAVE STORY.

I've spoken to the lead writer. He knows what he's doing. Everyone there does. The game may not have top notch writing, but each class will have it's own seperate KotOR length Bioware-quality game.

So everyone, stop fucking saying "it's an MMO, it won't have story". That's just like saying "she's Christian, she hates people that think differently" or "he's gay, he loves theater and fashion and is girly".

Fucking hell.

I hate the people on this site sometimes.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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thunderbug said:
Reason 1 - story or lack thereof - The key difference between a single player game and a multiplayer (specifically MMO) game is that one is story driven the other uses a story to creating a setting. Taking 2 examples Mass Effect 2 and WOW. Mass effect 2 is a game which follows a story where your actions effect the world and endings. The story is the game as much as the gameplay. WOW on the other hand has a story which set the scene for the WOW world within which a bunch of people go round doing the same quests which have no impact on the world or anyone but themselves. This is not so much a developer fault as it is a fault of the style of game. Developers like to brag about there new MMO is somehow different but it always ends up the same grind. When looking at games like COD there is a pathetic story to add padding to the game and make it seem better value but COD is all about the multiplayer, meaning that what story it does have is beyond garbage.
You need to look into Final Fantasy XI. That MMO is FULL of story, and quite interesting ones at that. Most everyone I've talked to about its stories compared to WoW says it blows WoW out of the water in that respect. Sure it's grind-tastic, but they've made things easier as of late and really, what MMO doesn't have a healthy dose of grinding?

Of course there is that discrepancy that every person who is helping you complete the quest is also the "one person who can save this world" doing the exact same quest, but every game requires you to suspend your beliefs in one way or another. Games with health kits ask that you accept that a bottle of pills can cure broken bones and lacerations, games with regenerative health ask that you accept that those bullets did just harmlessly absorb into your body like osmosis, and MMOs ask that you accept that you ARE the one saving the world even though everyone else is, too.

Reason 2 - Character development - MMO's have none simple as that. COD and other multiplayer based FPS or TPS have very little. Taking Mass Effect 2 into account compared to any other MMO or Multiplayer based FPS or TPS. No one can argue that Gears for example has more Character development than ME2. Gears in IMO is one of the better multiplayer based games when looking at story and character development but even this in both aspects falls short of dedicated story games like ME2. The Character development in ME2 is immense and one of the best things about the game.
Well yeah, the point of most MMOs is that you are projecting yourself onto the character. You can't really do much character development when you are putting that in the hands of the player. However, the only online multiplayer fighters I've played are TF2 and a bit of Halo, so I can't really speak about the merits of your examples.

Reason 3 - Ease of production - MMO games have a large game world, usually in substandard graphics and no, story, cut scenes, character development to speak of. COD has 10 small maps, good graphics, bad story, bad character development. ME2 has a large game world, immense character development, well thought out story and back story, good graphics. So we can see that to produce product like ME2 would require much more effort than COD or WOW.
See, you're jumping between MMOs like WoW and MMOs like CoD and the like and it's confusing. Final Fantasy XI had many cutscenes, and I'm fairly certain most other MMORPGs that have any semblance of a story have something like them, too. The world was gorgeous for its time (I mean it is Square Enix, after all), and I think it was a hell of a lot prettier than WoW.

And--wait, are you actually trying to say that it's easier to make areas for instanced gameplay than for open-world gameplay? What the hell are you smoking? If your head is on straight you will agree that building worlds in ANY case is difficult, and I would go onto say that producing something like WoW is a LOT harder because of how vast the areas have to be. You have to take into account traffic in high-demand areas, you have to get all of the important stuff in there big enough, and you can't forget all the nice little nooks and crannies that aren't really necessary but still there to explore. Because really, that's what MMOs like WoW and FFXI are about--exploration. I assume you are basing this assumption that it's easier to make areas for WoW and the like because ME2 is prettier. Well ME2 is a hell of a lot newer, as well. It has more advanced modelers, shaders, and algorithms involved to make it look pretty. Not to mention they don't have to optimize everything to run as efficiently as possible at peak server times.

Reason 4 - Profit - This is a tie in to reason 3, but if a game which is easier to make sells better due to multiplayer, it is going to have bigger profits. Then more companies jump on the band wagon and there is even less high quality games.
Multiplayer servers cost money to upkeep, you know. That is why having in-game stores (like the hats in TF2) is almost necessary for multiplayer games to stay open in the long-term. It may mean a more steady stream of money (in theory, though that's not a guarantee), but to say it's easy money is a bit of a stretch. They have to make sure they are always making money somehow, whether by game sales or store items. They have to keep developing new content and updating to keep things interesting, and they have to expand and upkeep servers as necessary.

Reason 5 - Old IP converted to MMO - This reason was sparked by the latest Old Republic game which sadly but not surprisingly has been turned into an MMO. KOTOR was one of the best games ever made without a doubt and no one with any sanity can argue that a game such as COD is better. The new Old Republic MMO will suffer from the same problems as all MMO in which is has a story (in this case provided by 2 single player games) with a tiny bit of story to add context to the meaningless events and quests that all players will be doing in the "grind". Now i know for a fact that no matter how good this MMO is no matter how slick it is. it will NEVER NEVER NEVER be as good as KOTOR 3 would have been. It will have no story no characters, no meaning, in short it will be a MMORPG.
You're making assumptions on a game that is in development and that you know nothing about, and then using those assumptions as a reason to back your claim. That's less of a "reason" and more of a "wild stab in the dark." How about waiting until the Old Republic MMO comes out before using it as example for poorly executed MMOs, hm?

You seem to have a very limited experience and field of view in all this. And then the things that you do claim to know are poorly thought out and wildly speculative. I'm not even sure why I bothered quoting all of those things. Your own ignorance on the subject is already enough to discredit you. If you don't like multiplayer games, then fine, don't play them. There are plenty of single-player games (or games with single-player modes) that have plenty of that story and character development you love so much. But just because YOU don't like multiplayer it doesn't mean it is ruining games in general. I don't like mayonnaise, but I don't ask Kraft to stop making the stuff because I fear it's ruining the quality of turkey sandwiches everywhere.
 

MysticToast

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Jul 28, 2010
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ZeroMachine said:
le rage snip
This is pretty much what I was thinking. I think people are too quick to jump to stupid conclusions like "games are being ruined!!!!11!" without properly thinking about the situation at hand