I find this an interesting post because, I am currently trying to beat mass effect, and slamming my face into my table every time I realize, yes, I did just enter another dialogue cuscene, oh, f@cking, joy, and slamming my face harder into my desk when I get into the sticky at best, broken at worst combat.Talshere said:No multi player experience has ever managed to replicate the gripping stories and intriguing characters that is the signature of single player RPG's.
By introducing another player you ruin it somewhat because you are, at least in part, forced to experience the story their way, not yours.
As such, I would never, in its current state play games like Kotor, ME, Fallout, Bioshock, Dragon age or alike online. (Boaderlands is not an RPG, its a jumped up FPS)
But on the same note, I would never buy an FPS these days without at least an indication that there is a decent multiplayer aspect.
My reason being, I pay 25-30 pound for an RPG like ME. I spend over 60-70 hours the first run through. Plus whatever I spend running through it again. They dont necessarily have to be challenging combat wise to be mesmerising. Modern FPS's however rarely contain more than 16-20 hours of single player that is relatively unchallenging even on some of the harder difficulties and a plot that is often disjointed at best.
While these are (mostly) entertaining, I think the only modern FPS I can say Ive been back to and replayed is the original CoD4:MW, and it was several months before I did so. The first modern warfare also contains the only level on any FPS I have been unable to complete, the rescue the diplomat mission on the plane after the credits, which on the hardest difficulty setting continues to vex me as I fail it by 3 seconds.
black-magic said:I find this an interesting post because, I am currently trying to beat mass effect, and slamming my face into my table every time I realize, yes, I did just enter another dialogue cuscene, oh, f@cking, joy, and slamming my face harder into my desk when I get into the sticky at best, broken at worst combat.Talshere said:No multi player experience has ever managed to replicate the gripping stories and intriguing characters that is the signature of single player RPG's.
By introducing another player you ruin it somewhat because you are, at least in part, forced to experience the story their way, not yours.
As such, I would never, in its current state play games like Kotor, ME, Fallout, Bioshock, Dragon age or alike online. (Boaderlands is not an RPG, its a jumped up FPS)
But on the same note, I would never buy an FPS these days without at least an indication that there is a decent multiplayer aspect.
My reason being, I pay 25-30 pound for an RPG like ME. I spend over 60-70 hours the first run through. Plus whatever I spend running through it again. They dont necessarily have to be challenging combat wise to be mesmerising. Modern FPS's however rarely contain more than 16-20 hours of single player that is relatively unchallenging even on some of the harder difficulties and a plot that is often disjointed at best.
While these are (mostly) entertaining, I think the only modern FPS I can say Ive been back to and replayed is the original CoD4:MW, and it was several months before I did so. The first modern warfare also contains the only level on any FPS I have been unable to complete, the rescue the diplomat mission on the plane after the credits, which on the hardest difficulty setting continues to vex me as I fail it by 3 seconds.
The characters are generic, the dialogue is unintereting, and although the world is in depth, I could go read a book, not my codex, or better yet, watch a star wars movie, why don't we play games for what they are, games.
You can play 60 hours on Mass effect for 30 dollars? I think thats what, 60 canadian? I spend about that on modern warfare one, and I have well over a month loged on it, just multiplayer.
Not that I disliked the single player, the scene "All ghillied up" was genius, but however much fun I can have crawling through grass, I can do the same playing battlefield 2, and actually feel like i'm going somewhere with it, towards a victory, not towards the next checkpoint.
richasr said:Single Player, but Multiplayer only in terms of co-op, where it's just the single player campaign played with a bunch of mates.
I don't know about the PSN but Xbox Live is full of irritating morons, hackers, campers and people who just want to win rather than have fun, so it gets quite frustrating, for me anyway
I think you are playing the wrong single player games if you feel you have to slog through.black-magic said:Back in '02 I picked up a wondorous game, a game called MOH:AA, for the uninitiated, MOH:AA is medal of honor: allied assault, this was one of my first video games, I went through the single player, had a little fun.
Then I got to the multiplayer. It became the only game I would play, day in and day out, for 4 years, after which I discovered counterstrike and WoW.
What i'm saying here is, I don't play single player games, I play the occasional one, but even then I feel like i'm just slogging through to the end so I can get back on WoW, why do people play single player games, do you?
I realize I made no points as to why I prefer multiplayer, I want you to point out yours reasons, I just play multiplayer because it's something I can master and feel like i'm beating others at, that and single player games are just dull.
i've played better rated single player games, ive never met one that didnt make me want to kill myself, even bioshock, mass effect, dragon age, every silent hill ive set my eyes on ive never got more then an hour into, and zelda games make me cry blood.BlindMessiah94 said:I think you are playing the wrong single player games if you feel you have to slog through.black-magic said:Back in '02 I picked up a wondorous game, a game called MOH:AA, for the uninitiated, MOH:AA is medal of honor: allied assault, this was one of my first video games, I went through the single player, had a little fun.
Then I got to the multiplayer. It became the only game I would play, day in and day out, for 4 years, after which I discovered counterstrike and WoW.
What i'm saying here is, I don't play single player games, I play the occasional one, but even then I feel like i'm just slogging through to the end so I can get back on WoW, why do people play single player games, do you?
I realize I made no points as to why I prefer multiplayer, I want you to point out yours reasons, I just play multiplayer because it's something I can master and feel like i'm beating others at, that and single player games are just dull.
Try playing Eternal Darkness or BG&E and then tell me you don't like single player.
As for me I used to like Multiplayer, but now I hate humans in generally so I tend to steer clear of it. I use games to escape the reality of dealing with real people and revel in the solitude of being in a world where I am in control.
I've played every game you mentioned on your list and I still prefer Eternal Darkness and BG&E to them by a large margin.black-magic said:i've played better rated single player games, ive never met one that didnt make me want to kill myself, even bioshock, mass effect, dragon age, every silent hill ive set my eyes on ive never got more then an hour into, and zelda games make me cry blood.BlindMessiah94 said:I think you are playing the wrong single player games if you feel you have to slog through.black-magic said:Back in '02 I picked up a wondorous game, a game called MOH:AA, for the uninitiated, MOH:AA is medal of honor: allied assault, this was one of my first video games, I went through the single player, had a little fun.
Then I got to the multiplayer. It became the only game I would play, day in and day out, for 4 years, after which I discovered counterstrike and WoW.
What i'm saying here is, I don't play single player games, I play the occasional one, but even then I feel like i'm just slogging through to the end so I can get back on WoW, why do people play single player games, do you?
I realize I made no points as to why I prefer multiplayer, I want you to point out yours reasons, I just play multiplayer because it's something I can master and feel like i'm beating others at, that and single player games are just dull.
Try playing Eternal Darkness or BG&E and then tell me you don't like single player.
As for me I used to like Multiplayer, but now I hate humans in generally so I tend to steer clear of it. I use games to escape the reality of dealing with real people and revel in the solitude of being in a world where I am in control.
I love to read, I finished battly royale last week, the manga and the book, and i'm an avid player of both harvest moon and visual novels, but these I play maybe 2 hours a month, where I spend 4 or 5 hours a day on CoD and Wow, minimum.Talshere said:black-magic said:I find this an interesting post because, I am currently trying to beat mass effect, and slamming my face into my table every time I realize, yes, I did just enter another dialogue cuscene, oh, f@cking, joy, and slamming my face harder into my desk when I get into the sticky at best, broken at worst combat.Talshere said:No multi player experience has ever managed to replicate the gripping stories and intriguing characters that is the signature of single player RPG's.
By introducing another player you ruin it somewhat because you are, at least in part, forced to experience the story their way, not yours.
As such, I would never, in its current state play games like Kotor, ME, Fallout, Bioshock, Dragon age or alike online. (Boaderlands is not an RPG, its a jumped up FPS)
But on the same note, I would never buy an FPS these days without at least an indication that there is a decent multiplayer aspect.
My reason being, I pay 25-30 pound for an RPG like ME. I spend over 60-70 hours the first run through. Plus whatever I spend running through it again. They dont necessarily have to be challenging combat wise to be mesmerising. Modern FPS's however rarely contain more than 16-20 hours of single player that is relatively unchallenging even on some of the harder difficulties and a plot that is often disjointed at best.
While these are (mostly) entertaining, I think the only modern FPS I can say Ive been back to and replayed is the original CoD4:MW, and it was several months before I did so. The first modern warfare also contains the only level on any FPS I have been unable to complete, the rescue the diplomat mission on the plane after the credits, which on the hardest difficulty setting continues to vex me as I fail it by 3 seconds.
The characters are generic, the dialogue is unintereting, and although the world is in depth, I could go read a book, not my codex, or better yet, watch a star wars movie, why don't we play games for what they are, games.
You can play 60 hours on Mass effect for 30 dollars? I think thats what, 60 canadian? I spend about that on modern warfare one, and I have well over a month loged on it, just multiplayer.
Not that I disliked the single player, the scene "All ghillied up" was genius, but however much fun I can have crawling through grass, I can do the same playing battlefield 2, and actually feel like i'm going somewhere with it, towards a victory, not towards the next checkpoint.
30 GBP is current 46.5836 CAD. CoD4 cost me £25 which is 38.8429 CAD.
I have also logged a hell of a lot of time on CoD4 online. The point I was making however was that while I enjoyed the campian, I might have felt a little cheated had that been all Id got. As a multiplayer I was highly active in a clan played weekly scrims and graced both my own clan servers as well as a particularly good full metal custom maps sever I found.
Personally I dont mind all the dialog in ME. On the first run through I enjoyed finding out about the intricacies of the various plots and side missions I was sent on. On the second run through though there is no need to do so and all the dialog is skippable, excepting the cuts where you can make a quicktime (sigh) paragon or renegade choice, and there is no real need to explore your crews side plots.
Ive personally never read the codex. Guns shoot bullets. Bigger guns shoot bigger bullets. Engines make the ship go, and shields stop it blowing up. I dont need to know more than that.
Maybe it just takes a certain type to like the dialog heavy options. Personally Ive always been a big reader, into my fantasy book, card games, RP and what have you.
And while I agree pretty much all the characters fit a generic stereotype of some kind, the persecuted daughter on the run, the kind hearted assassin, the solider type who aint to smart but can blow things up, the wizz kid, its kinda hard not to. Every that its possible to have as a personality and remain mentally stable has already been stereotyped, personally I think they do quite a good job of it in ME and I never felt particularly like any of the characters was a walking cliché unlike a certain captain from CoD4. A guy who looks like a 1930's British middle/upper class man with a stunning imitation of what Americans think all Brits talk like.
What I said was a bit misleading, I mean the people that are focused so much on their kill-to-death ratio, the amount of games they've won etc. to the point that they exploit the game's shortcomings. Nothing wrong with wanting to win, as long as you don't start cheating and using pussy tactics all the time just to do so, where's the fun in sitting in a bush for the majority of a 10 minute match with Cold-Blooded Pro, a silenced Barret and Ninja?Talshere said:richasr said:Single Player, but Multiplayer only in terms of co-op, where it's just the single player campaign played with a bunch of mates.
I don't know about the PSN but Xbox Live is full of irritating morons, hackers, campers and people who just want to win rather than have fun, so it gets quite frustrating, for me anyway
Morons, hackers and campers I get. But seriously what is everyone beef with people wanting to win. I have yet to find a single person who does not enjoy winning. Ive never been beaten by someone only to have them tell me, "you know what, I wish youd won, it would have been far more enjoyable", Ive had people tell me I deserved to win, or I should have won and they got lucky, but not once have anyone of them said, damn I wish Id lost.
Ok I know sometimes you join a game to piss about and say idk, kill each other in the safe room on L4D. But if your guna do that it should really be with 3 mates otherwise the only one being a dick is you.
Could someone please try and explain this "I want to lose" mentality to me?
richasr said:What I said was a bit misleading, I mean the people that are focused so much on their kill-to-death ratio, the amount of games they've won etc. to the point that they exploit the game's shortcomings. Nothing wrong with wanting to win, as long as you don't start cheating and using pussy tactics all the time just to do so, where's the fun in sitting in a bush for the majority of a 10 minute match with Cold-Blooded Pro, a silenced Barret and Ninja?Talshere said:richasr said:Single Player, but Multiplayer only in terms of co-op, where it's just the single player campaign played with a bunch of mates.
I don't know about the PSN but Xbox Live is full of irritating morons, hackers, campers and people who just want to win rather than have fun, so it gets quite frustrating, for me anyway
Morons, hackers and campers I get. But seriously what is everyone beef with people wanting to win. I have yet to find a single person who does not enjoy winning. Ive never been beaten by someone only to have them tell me, "you know what, I wish youd won, it would have been far more enjoyable", Ive had people tell me I deserved to win, or I should have won and they got lucky, but not once have anyone of them said, damn I wish Id lost.
Ok I know sometimes you join a game to piss about and say idk, kill each other in the safe room on L4D. But if your guna do that it should really be with 3 mates otherwise the only one being a dick is you.
Could someone please try and explain this "I want to lose" mentality to me?
black-magic said:I love to read, I finished battly royale last week, the manga and the book, and i'm an avid player of both harvest moon and visual novels, but these I play maybe 2 hours a month, where I spend 4 or 5 hours a day on CoD and Wow, minimum.Talshere said:black-magic said:I find this an interesting post because, I am currently trying to beat mass effect, and slamming my face into my table every time I realize, yes, I did just enter another dialogue cuscene, oh, f@cking, joy, and slamming my face harder into my desk when I get into the sticky at best, broken at worst combat.Talshere said:No multi player experience has ever managed to replicate the gripping stories and intriguing characters that is the signature of single player RPG's.
By introducing another player you ruin it somewhat because you are, at least in part, forced to experience the story their way, not yours.
As such, I would never, in its current state play games like Kotor, ME, Fallout, Bioshock, Dragon age or alike online. (Boaderlands is not an RPG, its a jumped up FPS)
But on the same note, I would never buy an FPS these days without at least an indication that there is a decent multiplayer aspect.
My reason being, I pay 25-30 pound for an RPG like ME. I spend over 60-70 hours the first run through. Plus whatever I spend running through it again. They dont necessarily have to be challenging combat wise to be mesmerising. Modern FPS's however rarely contain more than 16-20 hours of single player that is relatively unchallenging even on some of the harder difficulties and a plot that is often disjointed at best.
While these are (mostly) entertaining, I think the only modern FPS I can say Ive been back to and replayed is the original CoD4:MW, and it was several months before I did so. The first modern warfare also contains the only level on any FPS I have been unable to complete, the rescue the diplomat mission on the plane after the credits, which on the hardest difficulty setting continues to vex me as I fail it by 3 seconds.
The characters are generic, the dialogue is unintereting, and although the world is in depth, I could go read a book, not my codex, or better yet, watch a star wars movie, why don't we play games for what they are, games.
You can play 60 hours on Mass effect for 30 dollars? I think thats what, 60 canadian? I spend about that on modern warfare one, and I have well over a month loged on it, just multiplayer.
Not that I disliked the single player, the scene "All ghillied up" was genius, but however much fun I can have crawling through grass, I can do the same playing battlefield 2, and actually feel like i'm going somewhere with it, towards a victory, not towards the next checkpoint.
30 GBP is current 46.5836 CAD. CoD4 cost me £25 which is 38.8429 CAD.
I have also logged a hell of a lot of time on CoD4 online. The point I was making however was that while I enjoyed the campian, I might have felt a little cheated had that been all Id got. As a multiplayer I was highly active in a clan played weekly scrims and graced both my own clan servers as well as a particularly good full metal custom maps sever I found.
Personally I dont mind all the dialog in ME. On the first run through I enjoyed finding out about the intricacies of the various plots and side missions I was sent on. On the second run through though there is no need to do so and all the dialog is skippable, excepting the cuts where you can make a quicktime (sigh) paragon or renegade choice, and there is no real need to explore your crews side plots.
Ive personally never read the codex. Guns shoot bullets. Bigger guns shoot bigger bullets. Engines make the ship go, and shields stop it blowing up. I dont need to know more than that.
Maybe it just takes a certain type to like the dialog heavy options. Personally Ive always been a big reader, into my fantasy book, card games, RP and what have you.
And while I agree pretty much all the characters fit a generic stereotype of some kind, the persecuted daughter on the run, the kind hearted assassin, the solider type who aint to smart but can blow things up, the wizz kid, its kinda hard not to. Every that its possible to have as a personality and remain mentally stable has already been stereotyped, personally I think they do quite a good job of it in ME and I never felt particularly like any of the characters was a walking cliché unlike a certain captain from CoD4. A guy who looks like a 1930's British middle/upper class man with a stunning imitation of what Americans think all Brits talk like.
However, why would the option to skip dialogue be an incentive to play? better yet, why would the option to be able to skip dialogue so you can get back to walking around aimlessly and/or fighting in some of the worst combat ive ever seen be an incentive? If I want to go read/watch about a unlikeable character, i'll go read about Kiriyama or Shuya again, and I wouldent need to spend half my time flipping through a horridly stupid item screen.
To tell me to play a game to learn a story instead of intuitive and streamlined gameplay is fundementally flawed. Mario never had a story originally, maybe people played it for, lets say, fun.