Music and intelligence

[Rararaz]

This is a baseless and stupid argument. (although kudos on the debating side of things).

Even more so than ever there are blurred lines between the musical genres and individuals have wider music tastes than even ten years ago due to the accessibility of music. Therefore even if this idea was true in the past it is less likely to be so now. I have close friends who listen to metal and are idiots just as I have a one friend who listens to metal and is very clever.

Well, let's look at simple trend:


First, [a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.105419-Poll-Favourite-Music-Genre#1695584"]the Escapist's favourite music genre[/a].

Now let's look at [a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.88498-Poll-Do-you-know-your-IQ-What-is-it#1358131"]the 'what is your IQ' thread[/a].

I know IQ isn't a very good measurement of intelligence, but it works for this example.

Works for what? To show that there is not trend? On top of the reasons that this isn't reliable anyways you have to take into account the demographic that is on the escapist.

...Metal?

Yes, metal. In terms of the rhythms and chords used, classical and metal are highly similar. it's unsurprising, really. If you trace the geneaology of music, you'll find that metal is the direct descendant and heir to the throne of classical. Which is probably why this works so well.

How musical are you? Metal in terms of "rhythms and chords" is equally similar to most other musical genres (it will always vary in every genre). Just becasue there has been a trend in metal to cover classical songs does not mean that it is any more similar to classical music than other genres. Thousands of songs follow the same progressions as classical music becasue calssical music is older and more familiar. The most famous classical songs use natural chord/note changes and therefore these are copied/reused/rediscovered in all music. Flamenco shares more with classical in actual musical terms than metal.

 

[Ytmh]

I wish actual examples were named rather than just "classical" or "metal," since this means absolutely nothing. Are we talking about Mozart? Couperin? Bach? Hindemith? Which is it??

Also what are these "chords" I keep hearing about? You mean cadence harmony? Baroque affects? No matter where you look it's retarded to even compare Mahler to Mozart, or Liszt and Bach, and they're all "classical." Nevermind the entire 20th century.

I know also that the differences between bands, while perhaps less than within the "classical" music canon, are substantial enough to make generalizations sort of dumb. Yeah sure if you know how to play guitar you can practically see how most groups put together their songs, but that doesn't mean anything (since the same can be said to knowing music theory allowing you to see how everyone else put their songs together.)

In this thread, 16 year old metalheads who have an extremely limited knowledge of music.

No kidding...

 

[Phoenixlight]

No, stupid people listen to both metal and classical music aswell :/

 

[Arcticflame]

I'd say that people with more intelligence prefer music which has more texture, and experimentation.
Not a genre thing, an artist by artist thing.

Besides, most people who listen to pop and techno are willing to listen to metal or classical, but most people who listen to classical and metal won't even bother with pop or techno, so which "group" is showing the more scientific mindset?

Scientific? The one that dismissed a particular hypothesis after sample data showed a particular style was not conducive to an enjoyable listening experience.

(the latter).

But, as you said, music must be taken on an artist by artist basis. Someone who listens to 50 Cent and decides they hate Rap misses out on Tupac and early Eminem. Going back to the scientific point, metalheads will usually take a small sample size and judge an entire genre on it, while people who listen to pop* usually give bands a try, without judging an entire type of music off of one band.

*Also, how the hell do you judge "pop" music? Technically Metallica and Led Zepplin is "popular" with teenage morons, so does that make them pop?

I realise this entirely. My post was merely me trying to be a smart arse.

Although I do say, people who listen to vacuous pop music. Are without a doubt more stupid.

 

[Serge A. Storms]

I noticed where pre-punk, punk, folk, blues and Motown aren't even part of this clearly sophisticated study, despite their popularity and widely recognized status as "intelligent" music of the 20th century. I guess people that listen to anything other than the specific genres mentioned just fall somewhere in the middle.

 

[hittite]

All right! Fine! To those comenting on my earlier comment, no I've never seen statistics to that effect, it's just something I heard once that sounded plausible. It was 2AM. I was typing nonsense. Get off my case.

As for the guy who mentioned something about "inspector gadget," all I have to say is: you philistene!

 

[Yossarian1507]

Ugh... Yeah sure, I met a lot of empty, plastic people listening to whatever MTV or other bullcrap will tell them is cool. Sure, I'm listening to metal (classical music, jazz, trip hop, rap. I don't care about genre if it sounds good to me) and I consider myself quite intelligent (or at least I never met anyone who would call me an 'ignorant', and people like to discuss with me on various topics), most of my friends still or at least at some point listened to metal, and I think they are intelligent as well.

But that does not mean it's true. I met several metalheads, who were just as dumb and empty as your typical high school jock, but instead of being plastic they were metal...

the bottom line is: it's not music that makes you intelligent, and never will be. True, sometimes listening to music may leave a spark inside you to for example make the music you love, and with that passion maybe you'll start your interest in other things which definitely helps your intelligence, but for the love of God, it can be love to electronic music, metal, rap, jazz, blues or even country.

It's your parents during the first stage of life, and then YOU. You are making yourself intelligent (or dumb), not music.

 

[Wardnath]

In this thread, 16 year old metalheads who have an extremely limited knowledge of music.

Also lol at using "techno" to describe the entirety of electronic music.

Basically if you think theres a link in intelligence and music you aren't very intelligent.

So all deathcore fans are intelligent?

Edit: Also, most of the "metalheads" here actually only like A7X, Korn and Slipknot. There aren't very many proper metalheads here.

 

[Kris015]

...and that people with high intelligence mostly listened to Classic music or metal.

ahahaa...

Your sister might have some prejudices here.

Those are about the most opposite music genres out there. Ill place 3 Francs and a mars bar on her listening to Metal.

I know many a mental moron who listens to Metal, and one top notch toff who listens to techno.

your (and thus your sisters) argument is flawed.

It was something she had read. She don't have any prejudices.

 

[Seldon2639]

I know what she's talking about - I remember seeing this study where they compared student's test scores (SATs, in this case) with the types of music they listened to, and found (in general) that student's who did better in school tended to listen to classical music.

http://www.labnol.org/internet/music-taste-linked-to-intelligence/7489/

In my experience, I've found that this actually does tend to be true. I work with a lot of stupid people, and everytime they bring their iPods to work, I get to listen to a bunch of shitty modern hip-hop.

Self-reporting is always a bit iffy.

It could just be "those with higher intelligences are more likely to say they listen to classical music" rather than any kind of correlative (much less causal) link.

It's a selection bias. People who are more intelligent may (and in my experience, do) be more sensitive to the trappings and mis-en-scene of being intellectual, and so say they listen to more "intelligent" music than they actually do. I think a large part of it may be that classical music has a history and reputation of being more sophisticated and aristocratic, so self-styled intellectuals would report they listen to it, even if they're bopping out to Basement Jaxx.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

*Buzzer* WRONG! People who listen to more complex music have developed an ear for the more layers of sound, it's just like preferring another genre of music. Also just because a song is more complex doesn't make it better, you determine that by the songs melodies and riffs.

lets consider the implications of people to listen to classical remixes and rap-metal

madness!

Well rap-metal, aka nu-metal, is the most retarded brand of music you can find (see Insane Clown Posse).

precisely

Malenko can wave his wnd all he likes, it wont make anything from Psychopathic worth hearing

What are you babbling on about? ICP is awesome.

I will grant you that Halls of Illusion is pretty good, and I like the group's mythos as well as the amazing resultant sense of community the Juggalos seem to have, but no, sir, you are wrong. ICP is not and never has been awesome.

And Faygo tastes like ass

 

[reg42]

The music you listen to has nothing to do with intelligence. I know very smart and very stupid people who listen to rap.

 

[Zac_Dai]

In this thread, 16 year old metalheads who have an extremely limited knowledge of music.

Also lol at using "techno" to describe the entirety of electronic music.

Basically if you think theres a link in intelligence and music you aren't very intelligent.

So all deathcore fans are intelligent?

Edit: Also, most of the "metalheads" here actually only like A7X, Korn and Slipknot. There aren't very many proper metalheads here.

Hence the qualifier "16 year olds". What you said is kind of my point, they know about metal to a certain degree and base all their knowledge of hip-hop and electronic music off some shit they saw on MTV. From this ignorance they form the opinion that metal is the taste of intelligent people.

Yet Hip-hop and especially electronic music is just as diverse, rich and complex as metal is if not more so.

But they don't see that, all they see is Basshunter and 50 cent, they then go back to listening to 'Ride the lightning' feeling smug and superior.

 

[Baby Tea]

The real question is: is this cause, or effect?

Now that is the question.
I would see that musical tastes might be closer to 'cause' then 'effect'. Lower intelligence, much more susceptible to musical marketing, listening to it because you're told it's great and force-fed it on music channels and CHR radio.

That makes far more sense to me.

Music totally can stimulate emotions, making one angry or sad or happy, but raise or lower IQ?
Color me skeptical.

 

[Nazulu]

*Buzzer* WRONG! People who listen to more complex music have developed an ear for the more layers of sound, it's just like preferring another genre of music. Also just because a song is more complex doesn't make it better, you determine that by the songs melodies and riffs.

lets consider the implications of people to listen to classical remixes and rap-metal

madness!

Well rap-metal, aka nu-metal, is the most retarded brand of music you can find (see Insane Clown Posse).

precisely

Malenko can wave his wnd all he likes, it wont make anything from Psychopathic worth hearing

What are you babbling on about? ICP is awesome.

I will grant you that Halls of Illusion is pretty good, and I like the group's mythos as well as the amazing resultant sense of community the Juggalos seem to have, but no, sir, you are wrong. ICP is not and never has been awesome.

And Faygo tastes like ass

This is me your talking too. I don't need you to tell me if they are awesome or not when I already like many of their songs from their 3rd, 4th and 5th albums. In that time they were awesome, I've got no idea what you have against them but it doesn't matter because they delivered.

Faygo?

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I got slightly interested in this so did a google search to find out if there is a scientific way to compare how complex different types of music are. I got back search results from stormfront but nothing useful so I can at least conclude that metal heads are like neo nazis when it comes to wanting to prove that they are more intelligent than other groups of people.

I know what she's talking about - I remember seeing this study where they compared student's test scores (SATs, in this case) with the types of music they listened to, and found (in general) that student's who did better in school tended to listen to classical music.

http://www.labnol.org/internet/music-taste-linked-to-intelligence/7489/

In my experience, I've found that this actually does tend to be true. I work with a lot of stupid people, and everytime they bring their iPods to work, I get to listen to a bunch of shitty modern hip-hop.

I like this since I often listen to Beethoven, Sufjan Stevens and Radiohead in my car.

 

[Otterpoet]

Music choice has nothing to do with intelligence; it's typically a matter of choice.

And as for that study mentioned previously, it's an empty, pointless equation (based on what a person listens to in comparison to their SATs) that even the creator says does not represent correlation equalling causation. And look at the chart itself... 'classical' listeners are some of the stupidest of the bunch while 'Techno' and 'Indie' listeners are the smartest. It's pseudo-science crap like this that shows up on the Fox Network to prove video games corrupt our youth.

 

[Dublin Solo]

This really doesn't look like the most serious study out there. I prefer to take this with a grain of salt. Lots of factors could have influenced the results.