Muslim Organization To Rate Games Based on "Values of Islam"
- Thread starter Greg Tito
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hope it goes well for the games heading over to Islamic states & countries. wont work in the west since some arent even aware videogames have ratings at all <.<
...I think you just described the OFLC issue there, Greg. Also, ESRB is optional? You lucky sons of...
Also also, what's the difference between 'sociology of the family' and 'family sociology'?
EDIT: I have no problem with this if it's optional. The whole point of ratings is (or, rather, should be) to advice people on the game contents. If the Islamic gamers want to have something more specific to them to judge, go ahead; sharing the information won't do any harm unless it becomes more than that.
Also also, what's the difference between 'sociology of the family' and 'family sociology'?
EDIT: I have no problem with this if it's optional. The whole point of ratings is (or, rather, should be) to advice people on the game contents. If the Islamic gamers want to have something more specific to them to judge, go ahead; sharing the information won't do any harm unless it becomes more than that.
Not really, I'm of the latter, and I don't really care...Ekonk said:
OT: It really doesn't bother me that they're doing this. It's just a rating system, as long as content isn't altered, I don't have a problem with it.
That's cute. I like that you live in a world where you think systems like the ESRB are "voluntary". You seriously don't believe that studios are forced to edit or censor their games because of the rulings these boards hand down? That's naive. One does not need de jure law to gain a de facto impact.letterbomber223 said:
Also:
big·ot·ed
   /ˈbɪgətɪd/ Show Spelled[big-uh-tid] Show IPA
?adjective
utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
I'm perfectly tolerant of a number of different opinions and creeds (Monetarist vs Keynesian theories, go!), just not ones that are superstitious, misogynistic, homophobic, and grossly immoral. Is it bigotry to passionately disagree with racists and forthrightly state that disagreement? Do you typically stand up in history class when discussing Jim Crow and loudly shout "Hey! It's only by your standards and beliefs that he was wrong! You bigot! You're so intolerant of other viewpoints!" No, no you do not because you recognize that statement as the laughably preposterous drivel that it is.
Funny how moral and intellectual clarity makes one "bigoted".
^ Exactly. These are the last organizations to be talking to anyone about morality.SPELLEGRINO said:
LethalBargi said:Ummm, wow just wow ok I am a Muslim and I am an arab living in Saudi Arabia, and brother you are soooo off... there are always black sheep in every nation every religion etc... so why are we judged by them and not the true muslims the ones that want to innovate the ones who seek true knowledge and better understanding of life? i dont go all westerns are all up in each others beds just having massive orgy's or all westerns have no sense of morals because we cant compare each others standards. I love video games and most times the way the portray Muslims and arabs is soooo wrong and off, but thats ok in a way because thats how its seen through the designers eyes. for instance most westerners dont understand why someone would blow himself up so the relation came to the only way they can relate... Sex the whole 72 virgins crap going on but they dont see (because the media doesnt show) the seig that Israel does on Palestinians how they watch their mothers, daughters, brothers and fathers killed no food no water and barley anyway to defend themselves it is against Islam to kill yourself but there is no hope for them and its their final defense thats why they blow themselves not because of the "72 virgins" but i dont blame anyone for trying to relate in anyway why dont you try being open minded and see this as a step for westerners to learn more about Muslims and vice? i find it a great step towards peace because yes if the crappy news media cant do it or movies hopefully games can...Therumancer said:
Understand, I draw a careful line between the culture and the religion of Islam. I understand he situation quite well. In general tolerant Muslims like what you claim to be represent the actual minority. This style of terrorism exists because the vast majority of society supports what the terrorists are doing. You also see it when you have Civilians literally acting as human shields for snipers and ambushers attacking our troops.
I for one never really gave much credence to the whole "Virgins" thing in a modern sense, despite people making jokes about it. That whole thing came from The Opium wars and Assasins (the word Assasin actually being a corruption of the term used). They were conditioned by drugging them after training and then while in a stuper bringing them to a big party where they were wined, dined, and given loose women. Then drugged again and dropped back where they started and told they had a vision of Paradise, and that if they died in service to god they would go back and get all of that for eternity. In conjunction with other things it's a pretty valid brain washing technique, but one that I don't think is practiced nowadays on the same scale. Organizations like Al Queda and The Taliban using military training camps more akin to those set up by PMCs (or run by them in some cases) for their people, and rely more on getting the ones they want to be really fanatical extremely young.
At any rate, my correcting that assumption (about what I believe about Muslims) aside, the point of all those links was that the culture more or less hangs itself. A lot more could be provided, but I was being brief. Understand that I've grown up for decades seeing pictures of kids being trained as soldiers and terrorists through the years. I'm just old enough to remember all the stuff when The Taliban were presented in our media as Freedom Fighters.
I'll also be honest that I think Saudi Arabia plays a lot of games, enough to the point where I don't trust your country despite being an "ally" on paper. I've seen a bit of footage over the years with the goverment being buddy-buddy with the USA because of the money, but at the same time turning around and playing up the entire "Kill Americans" thing with the people themselves. Bin Ladin himself was a Saudi war Hero and when caught setting this terrorist stuff up, he wasn't imprisoned or executed, rather he was exiled and pretty much permitted to keep his resources. A lot of the guys involved in his organization are Saudis. Exiling him was more or less a "do nothing" solution due to his popularity and taking more direct action against him for the benefit of outside powers probably would have caused a revolt. I've read a bit about the subject. Some people comparing the situation to the one in Pakistan where the leadership is interested in cooperating with the USA and it's allies, but the people themselves want us dead and have more or less rebelled against the leadership on numerous occasions because of attempts to hold an alliance.
I talk about the problems with the culture due to things that have been going on decades. Truthfully I don't think this is a case where the USA needs to be more tolerant, I think it's a situation where the regional cultures need to do more to earn our trust if they don't want to hear from people like me, or risk the fact that guys like me might some day start making policies.
I get that you don't like what I'm saying, and I am sorry about that, however like it or not I'm far from ignorant despite what people might want to assume. What I think has been a long time in forming, and as I've shown it's hardly undocumented.
Besides which, on issues like Women's sufferage, I believe Saudi Arabia is one of those nations where we conceal our female workers in robes and such for diplomatic meetings and the like on a lot of occasions. On the subject of this post, if you were to take the Saudis as an example as one of the more progressive cultures in the region, you'd still wind up with the kind of standards I'm talking about, and why I think this is a bad idea.
As a friend of mine jokingly pointed out, when you start seeing Jewish guys elected to goverment office regularly in Muslim Middle Eastern nations, it will be a sign they have changed. Kind of over the top, but if you think about how say Blacks have been treated in the USA and how long we've been seeing them in offices even before Obama it does sort of show where our attitudes changed substantially. Truthfully, I think most of the nations in the region, especially the ones that are problems like Iran or the unacknowleged Palestine would be deeply offended by the suggestion. What's more the newly adapted constitutions of Iraq and Afghanistan specify these nations as being Muslim nations, and I believe being Islamic is a requirement for office, and laws are also to be interpeted through Islamic teachings.
While kind of unpleasant, just imagine what would be going on right now if the USA with it's current power was holding onto the ethics of a hundred, hundred and twenty years ago. Or worse yet if we had decided to officially define ourselves as a Christian nation, and decided to REALLY turn this into a religious grudge match/crusade. I think the results would be even worse than what I suggest (more akin to the words people like to put into my mouth, or how people like to interpet what I say in my more extreme posts). This is one of the big reasons why nations with goverments based on relgiion like Iran get so much pressure about trying to do things like develop nuclear technology.
Islamic standards being applied to games actually tends to be counter productive on a lot of levels. See the spread of ideas is one of those things that could cause changed without outright warfare, however it's one of those situations where the nations intentionally insuolate themselves as much as possible from outside ideas for that reason. You see that a lot today with things like China's "Bamboo Curtain" and national firewall.
It's hard to force people to consume media, however I think avoiding things like Islam-centric ratings increases the chance of Muslims being exposed to outside ideas, and adapting culturally as a result.
See, NOT engaging in things like this ratings system is one of the best ways of working towards proving me wrong, and showing that the Muslim world actually is trying to become more progressive in a sense other than developing more powerful technology.
we dont want to offend anyone, now do we? *starts drawing a Muhammad comic book with blackjack and hookers*
Watch this fail epically because no developer on earth is interested in submitting their games for the ESRA's approval. Or at least, they won't be once they realize that every single game gets branded as "porn" for having female characters who don't wear burkas.
And honestly, that's how it ought to be. We don't need central ratings boards, government-run or otherwise, that profess to be the final authority on who can be trusted to play, see, or hear what without turning into some kind of psychopath. We have the Internet. We can get, at the click of a button, the perspective of other people who are more in tune with our own values, instead of some monolithic group of suits who think they know what's best for everyone.
But if we do have to have central ratings boards, even voluntary ones, I'm glad they at least try to reflect broad cultural values instead of some religious organization's opinion. I wouldn't want Focus on the Family putting their rating marks on my movie cases*, and I don't like the idea of these people putting theirs on games.
*Except that one time they said the MPAA went too far in giving Hoodwinked a "PG" instead of a "G". That was epic win.
The key difference between these groups and the ESRA (and the ESRB) is that developers do not submit their games to them for a rating and then slap said rating right on the box. They buy the game at retail, play through it, and post their evaluation on their own website. There are other groups that do the same thing for other mediums. Heck, even the film critic in our newspaper has a column that breaks down the content of new releases from a more or less secular perspective, even though the MPAA rating is already prominently displayed.sp86 said:
And honestly, that's how it ought to be. We don't need central ratings boards, government-run or otherwise, that profess to be the final authority on who can be trusted to play, see, or hear what without turning into some kind of psychopath. We have the Internet. We can get, at the click of a button, the perspective of other people who are more in tune with our own values, instead of some monolithic group of suits who think they know what's best for everyone.
But if we do have to have central ratings boards, even voluntary ones, I'm glad they at least try to reflect broad cultural values instead of some religious organization's opinion. I wouldn't want Focus on the Family putting their rating marks on my movie cases*, and I don't like the idea of these people putting theirs on games.
*Except that one time they said the MPAA went too far in giving Hoodwinked a "PG" instead of a "G". That was epic win.
So they'll bury people up to their necks and stone them to death, but they wont let people play the games they want.
You clearly know nothing about how the ESRB and systems like it function coercively. The same thing happens with movies: these ratings strongly affect sales and can, de-facto, shut down games that are slapped with an "adult" ranking because publishers won't sponsor them.letterbomber223 said:
Also, THIS guy is your hero? Is that a joke? An Oil mogul? (and one who seems to profit greatly from the "Money-Based Western" society you dislike so obsessively.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zayed_bin_Sultan_Al_Nahyan#Attitudes
Someone who opposes a secular parliamentary democracy in favor of an Islamic theocratic-fascist state? That sounds real modernized.
And building Islamic states! How could I forget! Oh, yes, countries where they bury homosexuals alive and shoot rape victims in stadiums! Very "forward thinking". I'm sure the competition for "Leader of Progressive Thought" was hotly contested.
Where are you ranked on Amnesty International again?
Good for them, then.
I'm all for people poking around in games, while looking for deeper meaning. Just don't start censoring them!
EDIT: I don't know why, but I just hit the "Report" button on my own post. Sorry mods, my finger slipped.
I'm all for people poking around in games, while looking for deeper meaning. Just don't start censoring them!
EDIT: I don't know why, but I just hit the "Report" button on my own post. Sorry mods, my finger slipped.
Games about trust benevolence and virtue? Good luck with that, you might want to start with Little Big Planet and perhaps wait for the Undergarden game -- this isn't even about Islam -- if those are the virtues they're looking for, they're in the wrong medium.