Muslim Protestors Target Google

[cerebus23]

-snip-

We agree there. You see, if you believe that there is a god (Which a lot of people do, apparently) and he is omnipotent... Then he has the power to communicate a perfect concept to a human. I mean, he can do anything, right?

But if any human interferes with what was communicated in any way whatsoever, even adding a single dot or a dash... Then it is no longer the work of this omnipotent being who is capable of communicating perfect concepts.

The Qur'an is written word, written in a specific language, in a specific way... And if things are to be believed, it was always the way it is now. Which is pretty nifty.

Details like these are the things that make Islam one of the current major religions that I like the most. This concern with keeping things coherent.

In case you are wondering... I am, indeed, an atheist.

Well i am not i just find more major relgions so full of absolute garbage that i cannot be bothered to give them the time of day, nor the idea that our god is the correct god b.s. that has invaded all the major religions for the last 2,000 some odd years.

that and they all worship the same god but they bicker over the details of it at best, and at worst they are killing each other over it.

i do not think "religious" people in general give god enough credit, nor do i believe that humans are the end all be all of creation that all our religions reinforce. i do not believe that universe threw up its hands when we became homo sapiens and said well thats it we cant do any better this is as good as it gets, god agrees and tells us all sure have it do whatever you want it is your planet to do with as you will.

to me all that stuff added in was men looking to control their people and religion is the perfect form of control as long as your religions agree with your civilization. which all sprung up when we went from nomadic tribes to agriculture and started cramming more people into more cramped spaces, and then assimilated or obliterated anyone that did not buy into that new agriculture mindset.

religions before and after the "agricultural revolution" were markedly different in their views, religions before were about balance and respect for nature and the god in nature, religions after were removing any respect for nature, and some were very much the excuse of why you could go slaughter your neighbors with a clear concience.

 

[katsabas]

Haven't seen the play or the movie but there are some things I wanna get out of my chest.

I know a doctor. He is a Muslim married to a christian and they have 3 kids. What's more, his wife is Greek and they live in Athens. The hatred towards other religions and fanaticism is not something Muslims are born with but rather of the blind trust that the population shows to their religion representatives, the Imams.

Being that they are the ones responsible delivering the word of Allah to the (mostly) uneducated world of Pakistan, Iran etc., the blame falls squarely upon their shoulders for each and every protest around the world that ends in bloodshed and has something to do with the laws of the Coran being broken. Freedom of speech and creativity is a dead concept in these regions.

A simple example: The Coran doesn't forbid people from eating meat. It acknowledges that it is their body but states that the pig is a filthy animal and the meat produced from it is not healthy. There is a difference between 'don't' and 'shouldn't'.

The uneducated problem shows up here as well. They protested in front of Google in order for Youtube to take down a trailer to a movie ? Good luck, here is your tent and the WC is down the road to the left.

Now as for the shining example of Mr.Ilias, the guy is scum. Complete and total scum. He tagged a fellow politician on air because he couldn't retort against the arguments presented to him. His whole political party are carbon copies of him, except for the age difference.

We do not need him or GD to intervene for us in such cases. They were nowhere to be seen in the rallies against political and economical oppression that Greece now has to deal with. Besides, we fucking fought against the Axis in 1940. GD share pretty much share the same beliefs with NeoNazis. People voted for them cause 1) of the large number of illegal immigrants in the country (Omonia in downtown Athens is a place filled with black markets, shops opening without respecting the legislation or paying taxes and where crackpots inject their genitals with cocaine in broad daylight while in front of small children who simply want to go to a puppet theater) 2) cause they thought they would be a good change.

GD are attention hounds. The best weapon against them is ignorance. The representatives of the church, while not liking the perspective from which the story of Jesus is being told (it's natural, they are only human, everyone diapproves what they do not like), actually damn the fact that some people chose to side with GD in order to protect the identity of Christ and claim that the only thing the protests managed to do is draw attention.

Both the play and the movie are expressions of art. Art by its defintion, is defined by the one watching it. Every person watching it gives it a different meaning.

On a totally hilarious note, in their first press conference, a big part of the reporters there, were thrown out cause they didn't stand up and salute when the party leader came in.

 

[Driekan]

There is absolutely nothing that this religion gives to the world other then the killing of innocent people or people who disagree with them.While you can say other religions do the same thing I have yet to see any Christens or Catholics blow themselves up in a crowed area or shoot a 14 year old girl in the head for speaking out for women's rights.

For a person with such a strong opinion on the subject, you seem to know little about it.

On the blowing themselves up... Bombs are fairly recent things, but you'll still find plenty of examples of christians doing it throughout history. Wikipedia alone has a string of fairly famous occurrences. The assassination of russian Tsar Alexander II is a specially cool example. Read through lists like these, and you'll find examples from all major cultures and religions, making it almost seem like this thing, like so many other things is kind of universal.

As for killing young women. You may have heard of the inquisition, and the salem witch trials, or of any other witch hunt down the religion's history, or the conquest of the americas, or the sacking of jerusalem, or the religious justifications for the second wave of colonialism... List goes on. Religious justification for killing young women found in all of them. But damn, that is a specific thing you picked there, huh?

On the bit about "not giving anything to the world"... You may want to think twice. The symbols you used to write that "14" on your message is arabic in origin. In fact, a disturbing volume of knowledge, science and culture in the world can be tracked to the arabic, muslim world, who kept culture alive while the christian nations were happily butchering each other.

The muslim world brought us startling examples of religious acceptance (such as the Ottoman Millet system), and was for a very long time the most fertile, most liberal and most rich breeding ground for new ideas both practical and philosophical.

These nations did all this while being, to a very significant degree, islamic and it would be disingenuous to affirm in any way that muslim values played no part in making it happen. It would be like trying to affirm that our ("Western") legal system does not derive from christian morals and values: Both are absurd statements.

How this religion has brained washed the so called million's or so people who are Muslim's on this planet I'll never know.

It's billions, actually.

-snip-

You are comparing reading a book written 10 years ago by a person from the same overall cultural background as yours to reading a book written 1300 years ago by a person from a completely different culture? Uhh... Seriously?

What I am trying to point out is that we in "The West" generally lack the cultural repertoire to adequately understand the Qur'an, especially if we do not seek secondary sources for explanation.

If you give a copy of Harry Potter to a sentinel islander (Assuming it was translated into his language, by some miracle), he will be at least as bewildered by it as you are about the Qur'an, and he will derive as much understanding as you did. Not much.

Well i am not i just find more major relgions so full of absolute garbage that i cannot be bothered to give them the time of day, nor the idea that our god is the correct god b.s. that has invaded all the major religions for the last 2,000 some odd years.

That's a reason to like Islam more than most other religions. It is the one that recognizes the prophets of a lot of other religions as being, indeed, holy people who did bring the word of god.

religions before and after the "agricultural revolution" were markedly different in their views, religions before were about balance and respect for nature and the god in nature, religions after were removing any respect for nature, and some were very much the excuse of why you could go slaughter your neighbors with a clear concience.

Those are dangerously broad blanket statements, and not ones I think you should be comfortable saying unless you've spent a lot of time with pastoral or hunter-gatherer communities.

 

[cerebus23]

There is absolutely nothing that this religion gives to the world other then the killing of innocent people or people who disagree with them.While you can say other religions do the same thing I have yet to see any Christens or Catholics blow themselves up in a crowed area or shoot a 14 year old girl in the head for speaking out for women's rights.

For a person with such a strong opinion on the subject, you seem to know little about it.

On the blowing themselves up... Bombs are fairly recent things, but you'll still find plenty of examples of christians doing it throughout history. Wikipedia alone has a string of fairly famous occurrences. The assassination of russian Tsar Alexander II is a specially cool example. Read through lists like these, and you'll find examples from all major cultures and religions, making it almost seem like this thing, like so many other things is kind of universal.

As for killing young women. You may have heard of the inquisition, and the salem witch trials, or of any other witch hunt down the religion's history, or the conquest of the americas, or the sacking of jerusalem, or the religious justifications for the second wave of colonialism... List goes on. Religious justification for killing young women found in all of them. But damn, that is a specific thing you picked there, huh?

On the bit about "not giving anything to the world"... You may want to think twice. The symbols you used to write that "14" on your message is arabic in origin. In fact, a disturbing volume of knowledge, science and culture in the world can be tracked to the arabic, muslim world, who kept culture alive while the christian nations were happily butchering each other.

The muslim world brought us startling examples of religious acceptance (such as the Ottoman Millet system), and was for a very long time the most fertile, most liberal and most rich breeding ground for new ideas both practical and philosophical.

These nations did all this while being, to a very significant degree, islamic and it would be disingenuous to affirm in any way that muslim values played no part in making it happen. It would be like trying to affirm that our ("Western") legal system does not derive from christian morals and values: Both are absurd statements.

How this religion has brained washed the so called million's or so people who are Muslim's on this planet I'll never know.

It's billions, actually.

-snip-

You are comparing reading a book written 10 years ago by a person from the same overall cultural background as yours to reading a book written 1300 years ago by a person from a completely different culture? Uhh... Seriously?

What I am trying to point out is that we in "The West" generally lack the cultural repertoire to adequately understand the Qur'an, especially if we do not seek secondary sources for explanation.

If you give a copy of Harry Potter to a sentinel islander (Assuming it was translated into his language, by some miracle), he will be at least as bewildered by it as you are about the Qur'an, and he will derive as much understanding as you did. Not much.

Well i am not i just find more major relgions so full of absolute garbage that i cannot be bothered to give them the time of day, nor the idea that our god is the correct god b.s. that has invaded all the major religions for the last 2,000 some odd years.

That's a reason to like Islam more than most other religions. It is the one that recognizes the prophets of a lot of other religions as being, indeed, holy people who did bring the word of god.

religions before and after the "agricultural revolution" were markedly different in their views, religions before were about balance and respect for nature and the god in nature, religions after were removing any respect for nature, and some were very much the excuse of why you could go slaughter your neighbors with a clear concience.

Those are dangerously broad blanket statements, and not ones I think you should be comfortable saying unless you've spent a lot of time with pastoral or hunter-gatherer communities.

I do feel relatively comfortable saying a major change had to occur in the mindset of people living nomadically, where over hunting, grazing etc could destroy your local ecosystem for the coming seasons.

Not to say i believe in the noble savage thing, where all nomad peoples got along like hippies, i am sure back then tribes were competing over hunting areas, water sources and depending on feast and famine conditions those conflicts could get pretty bloody.

Vs agriculture where you have to toss out that balance, and because your population can expand beyond what your local ecosystem can support you tend to expand rapidly. also the idea that we have destroyed 90 some percent of peoples not living our way. The story of kain and able is a story about that war between the old ways of living and the new WAY of living.

The few olden peoples that do exist yet are a dying breed, and the elders will lament the fact that their children are seduced by missionaries that win them over with radios and flashlights and ipods and convince them they need these things to survive and run off to the cities with dreams of cool stuff that hardly ever work out because they do not have the skills needed in modern societies. we do not destroy people with smallpox and genocide of the local animal life, and bloody conflict, we simply give them stuff.

 

[LordLundar]

what? you were being very unspecific at first so i was trying to clarify what you meant. no, i hadn't realized a mosque was there 4 blocks away, which i have no problem with it being there actually, i never said i did? i'm sorry that i don't do research on every building in a city that i don't live in nor have ever been to.

So you didn't even bother to do research about the very thing you were talking about? Are you just that goddamn lazy?

the reason why i was pissed off had NOTHING to do with that mosque nor ground zero. I've said MULTIPLE times in this thread and before that you are welcome to have your beliefs, that i have no problem with, but when you get pissed off/try to do something about every little thing that doesn't line up with your beliefs, that's when i do have a problem, and if they don't like the fact that the people who made the video have those rights then they can simply ignore it/deal with it like a normal person, or simply not use the internet.

"Deal with it like a normal person"

This is what you just said, right there. You have openly admitted that you don't think they're "normal people" because they're exercising their rights as UK citizens to have a peaceful protest to invoke a change that they believe in. And you're trying to tell me that if it was a bunch of Catholics you'd be saying the same thing? So when do you start calling any christian protest as infringing rights and comparing them to abortion clinic bombers? I'd be willing to bet it doesn't happen.

a far worse incident? what are you referring to? i'm too lazy to go back and look so please, enlighten me if you really think i'm blindly bashing muslims.

Maybe I should retract that first question as you clearly are to lazy to do anything yourself. Let's see, how should I respond to this...

NO.

It's not my responsibility to spoon feed a lazy ass like yourself information. Learn to read and find it yourself (here's a hint: I told you where you could find it in my previous reply) THEN try and prove your point. You're either a bigot or ignorant. Take your pick.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Sometimes I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

captcha: buffalo wing
Now I want one to help me forget this silliness.

 

[Eldrig]

The sheer amount of ignorance and hate for muslims on this comment section is bewildering for me. How can anyone living in the modern age feel comfortable making such huge and sweeping generalizations of a religion based on the actions of a tiny minority? It boggles the mind. Muslims are no more inherently violent or evil than any other religious group, and in fact, looking at some of the tenants of their religion, I have to say that it has far more provisions for tolerance than christianity. In any case, good for these people protesting. I think the video should be taken down. Not because I am against free speech, just that I think it absurd that google seems to place a higher value on trying to take down videos that violate copyright laws rather than a video that's only purpose is to engender hate towards a specific group -ANY GROUP-.

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

what? you were being very unspecific at first so i was trying to clarify what you meant. no, i hadn't realized a mosque was there 4 blocks away, which i have no problem with it being there actually, i never said i did? i'm sorry that i don't do research on every building in a city that i don't live in nor have ever been to.

So you didn't even bother to do research about the very thing you were talking about? Are you just that goddamn lazy?

the reason why i was pissed off had NOTHING to do with that mosque nor ground zero. I've said MULTIPLE times in this thread and before that you are welcome to have your beliefs, that i have no problem with, but when you get pissed off/try to do something about every little thing that doesn't line up with your beliefs, that's when i do have a problem, and if they don't like the fact that the people who made the video have those rights then they can simply ignore it/deal with it like a normal person, or simply not use the internet.

"Deal with it like a normal person"

This is what you just said, right there. You have openly admitted that you don't think they're "normal people" because they're exercising their rights as UK citizens to have a peaceful protest to invoke a change that they believe in. And you're trying to tell me that if it was a bunch of Catholics you'd be saying the same thing? So when do you start calling any christian protest as infringing rights and comparing them to abortion clinic bombers? I'd be willing to bet it doesn't happen.

a far worse incident? what are you referring to? i'm too lazy to go back and look so please, enlighten me if you really think i'm blindly bashing muslims.

Maybe I should retract that first question as you clearly are to lazy to do anything yourself. Let's see, how should I respond to this...

NO.

It's not my responsibility to spoon feed a lazy ass like yourself information. Learn to read and find it yourself (here's a hint: I told you where you could find it in my previous reply) THEN try and prove your point. You're either a bigot or ignorant. Take your pick.

yes because every single person ever has researched everything they've posted to the upmost degree..i did not express that as fact, but as merely my opinion, i'm so sorry for not realizing there was a mosque four blocks away, my research only led me to 3 blocks away, next time i'll research even further!

hahah 'normal' has nothing to do with your religion/race/gender/etc.. it's being able to deal with a situation like a normal person does, which is, they say/believe their two cents and then go on with life. and i said i had a problem with who they are doing it to, which is random google employees. hypothetical example:

say the local supermarket sold sandwiches, and accidently they were shipped a bad set of meat unknowingly, but the meat processing plant knew this, would you:

A) get mad at the supermarket (youtube)

or

B) get mad at the meat packing plant (douchebag who made the movie)

I would get mad at the meat packing plant, because they are the ones who made it and shipped it out, which is not what these protesters are doing, they are grilling the wrong people.

you keep going off on random tangents, which is why i question you so much in your posts, you randomly switch every sentence which is why i was asking for more citations/details on what you were referring to, i'm sorry that i don't research enough...asian dad would be very disappointed in me.

bigot or ignorant?

mehh, i'll take both, a big ant!

Spoiler: RAWR RAWR BEHEAD THE INFIDELS

 

[Illyasviel]

You are comparing reading a book written 10 years ago by a person from the same overall cultural background as yours to reading a book written 1300 years ago by a person from a completely different culture? Uhh... Seriously?

What I am trying to point out is that we in "The West" generally lack the cultural repertoire to adequately understand the Qur'an, especially if we do not seek secondary sources for explanation.

If you give a copy of Harry Potter to a sentinel islander (Assuming it was translated into his language, by some miracle), he will be at least as bewildered by it as you are about the Qur'an, and he will derive as much understanding as you did. Not much.

So you're attempting to frame everything through scholarly academia, where everybody has a degree in anthropology, history and religious studies. And that's fine and all.

And I'm attempting to approach this from a natural, realistic point of view of an average person. And you're telling me I'm doing it all wrong. And also that's fine and all.

So what are you going to tell the teeming masses of actual Muslims in the Middle East, a large portion much of undereducated, potentially illiterate, and blindly believe in their Imams? At least I'm freaking reading the thing for myself. I'm trying to appreciate it as an average person. For that matter, how many people really read religious texts while holding a degree in anthropology and history? Maybe merrily LARPing away. You know. Just to really get in the mindset? Your view is unrealistic so why don't you come down to this level where reality happens? Or hey, read the second chapter for yourself and tell me what you glean from it: http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=1.

Remember, what I said was exactly that the first six pages are full of intolerance and that it creates a bad impression. Tell me how I'm wrong. Don't try to be a wuss and dodge it. "Oh, I can't read it because its not supposed to exist! Waahhh." Man up.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

He's currently in jail.

For his own protection or an actual crime I hope.

An actual crime. He violated the terms of his probation that outright stated that he couldn't use computers or the internet at all for 5 years. By posting the video online he violated his probation and went to jail.

Fucking idiot, he really went out of his way to get this started. As long as he's not just been detained to keep a few of the less rational protesters happy; it's not right that I jumped to that conclusion but it's hardly unjustified these days.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Do you know what the worst thing about this whole debacle is?



The film was absolutely terrible. Terrible writing, terrible acting, terrible sets, terrible effects.

I wish the muslims would just shrug this off the way most Christians would. Barring the Westboro Baptist church and various fundamentalists/extremists, most christians are generally pretty chill when people take the piss out of Jesus or God. Yet the Muslims declare that someone should be murdered for depicting Mohammed (pbuh). I just don't get it.
Perhaps Mr/Mrs Garrison was onto something
http://youtu.be/eNtDrUhcKyQ?t=47s

I suspect most people around where you live deposit more of their personal faith and values in things other than religion. I'm gonna go on a wild hunch and assume you're north american (Beg forgive if you're not, but building up a point here).

I suspect you, or people around you, react somewhat more powerfully when other values are threatened. In my experience, most americans place a huge burden of importance on 9/11, to a degree that seems irrational to anyone looking from the outside,much like their reaction to this film seems irrational. Not to diminish a tragedy, merely pointing out that to most people in the world, it was "A building fell down, couple thousand people died", an event far less shocking than most tragedies that happened around the same time, or since.

I am an English agnostic (it's not the right word for my beliefs but I can't find a definition that sits comfortably), as are most of the people I spend my time with. Some are atheists, others are Christian. We tend to keep a firmly open mind about religion, generally mocking each others beliefs in good fun.

We react strongest to threats against freedom, be it freedom of speech, freedom of expression.

I think I might actually buy an English translation of the Qur'an and read it, see if I can't understand a bit better. It just doesn't make sense to me why the Muslims react so violently.

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

Seems like Muslim protestors are targeting everything lately. They could stand to chill out a bit.

 

[prowll]

Every burned book enlightens the world. Every time someone makes a huge stink, and tries to 'ban' a book, movie, or whatever, it just brings more attention than it ever deserved in the first place. Had there been no protest, nobody would notice or care about the crappy movie.

 

[IamGamer41]

There is absolutely nothing that this religion gives to the world other then the killing of innocent people or people who disagree with them.While you can say other religions do the same thing I have yet to see any Christens or Catholics blow themselves up in a crowed area or shoot a 14 year old girl in the head for speaking out for women's rights.

For a person with such a strong opinion on the subject, you seem to know little about it.

On the blowing themselves up... Bombs are fairly recent things, but you'll still find plenty of examples of christians doing it throughout history. Wikipedia alone has a string of fairly famous occurrences. The assassination of russian Tsar Alexander II is a specially cool example. Read through lists like these, and you'll find examples from all major cultures and religions, making it almost seem like this thing, like so many other things is kind of universal.

As for killing young women. You may have heard of the inquisition, and the salem witch trials, or of any other witch hunt down the religion's history, or the conquest of the americas, or the sacking of jerusalem, or the religious justifications for the second wave of colonialism... List goes on. Religious justification for killing young women found in all of them. But damn, that is a specific thing you picked there, huh?

On the bit about "not giving anything to the world"... You may want to think twice. The symbols you used to write that "14" on your message is arabic in origin. In fact, a disturbing volume of knowledge, science and culture in the world can be tracked to the arabic, muslim world, who kept culture alive while the christian nations were happily butchering each other.

The muslim world brought us startling examples of religious acceptance (such as the Ottoman Millet system), and was for a very long time the most fertile, most liberal and most rich breeding ground for new ideas both practical and philosophical.

These nations did all this while being, to a very significant degree, islamic and it would be disingenuous to affirm in any way that muslim values played no part in making it happen. It would be like trying to affirm that our ("Western") legal system does not derive from christian morals and values: Both are absurd statements.

How this religion has brained washed the so called million's or so people who are Muslim's on this planet I'll never know.

It's billions, actually.

-snip-

You are comparing reading a book written 10 years ago by a person from the same overall cultural background as yours to reading a book written 1300 years ago by a person from a completely different culture? Uhh... Seriously?

What I am trying to point out is that we in "The West" generally lack the cultural repertoire to adequately understand the Qur'an, especially if we do not seek secondary sources for explanation.

If you give a copy of Harry Potter to a sentinel islander (Assuming it was translated into his language, by some miracle), he will be at least as bewildered by it as you are about the Qur'an, and he will derive as much understanding as you did. Not much.

Well i am not i just find more major relgions so full of absolute garbage that i cannot be bothered to give them the time of day, nor the idea that our god is the correct god b.s. that has invaded all the major religions for the last 2,000 some odd years.

That's a reason to like Islam more than most other religions. It is the one that recognizes the prophets of a lot of other religions as being, indeed, holy people who did bring the word of god.

religions before and after the "agricultural revolution" were markedly different in their views, religions before were about balance and respect for nature and the god in nature, religions after were removing any respect for nature, and some were very much the excuse of why you could go slaughter your neighbors with a clear concience.

Those are dangerously broad blanket statements, and not ones I think you should be comfortable saying unless you've spent a lot of time with pastoral or hunter-gatherer communities.

Your talking about thing in the past.Seem's that most other religions have moved passed waring on others because they don't believe the same was a they do.All but Muslims.Also let me point out that I don't go to wiki every single time I need info. Believe it or not there are other forms in information you can look to.Arabic is not the same as Muslim or is it? I'm sure most people can't tell or even care.

Lets go back to that 14 year old girl who was shot point blank in the head because he dare speak about women's rights.Do you see catholic's shooting people in the head because they may have to provide birth control to employees's? No you do not.

Also let me point you to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCXHPKhRCVg&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLw6nCwgahpZ1DCcN3I9KYhg

 

[Char-Nobyl]

While in the Middle East, Muslim protestors have taken to smashing shop windows and attacking US embassies in order to demonstrate their displeasure at the release of terrible comedy, The Innocence of Muslims, those in the UK have chosen a marginally more sensible target. On Sunday, a large crowd of Muslims barricaded Google's London office in a bid to pressure the company into removing The Innocence trailer from YouTube. The protest was entirely peaceful.

Oh, for the love of...

This is why it's so hard to argue against the stigma created by the countless 'Behead those who insult Islam' posters and whatnot that can be found in all corners of the internet. This...this just makes no sense. It's poorly-made movie screened to less than a dozen people, and had to be massively overdubbed in post-production just to make it as controversial as it is. Compare this to the release of, say, The Da Vinci Code. That was a a multi-million dollar film starring A-list actors.

In response, Opus Dei (the group portrayed as composed solely of A) evil priests and B) albino assassins) simply asked the filmmakers to consider editing the DVD release because the content portrayed Catholics in such a damaging light, and did so with utter seriousness and 'factual' basis. The Vatican/Catholic churches in general released various pamphlets and whatnot, pretty much just saying that the movie was pure fiction because it was based on a book written by a man who thought a previous book of utter fiction was 100% truth. The worst incident was in India, where a large group of youths protesting the film broke a bookstore's window and destroyed a bunch of copies of the book.

My point is that there was a time when the Vatican would muster entire armies to crush cities and nations that opposed them. Most major religions have a few black marks on their records, but they try to move beyond those times in as great a majority as they can.

Then there's this, and I can't help but ask...why? Nobody would care about this movie if people hadn't literally been murdered because of it. Ten people saw all of it. Ten. This is why the average Western citizen actually has reason to worry about terrorists: because they don't give a rat's ass about 'individuals.' If one American did something that they didn't like, then by golly, it only makes sense to look for the nearest Americans and kill them. That'll teach 'em! Because Americans are a hive mind, right?

"Unreservedly condemns the preposterous film vilifying Islam and desecrating the sanctity of the Holy Prophet Mohammad peace be upon Him" reads the group's manifesto, which also "Calls for all civilized fellow human beings to join in the 'Campaign for Global Civility.'"

Okay, that sounds like a noble goal, but...really? It needed a stupid movie to happen?

YouTube has declined to remove the video, arguing that it doesn't break any of the service's rules. The MAF intends to organize other actions until the video is removed. Targeting Google is a clever move: If anything will force the West to abandon freedom of expression, it's the threat of having to use Bing.

Oh, goddamnit. Youtube is a subsidiary of Google, yes. But somehow I doubt that Google office is the Youtube Master Control Center. Taking it over is akin to occupying a kid's college dorm room because you didn't like something his parents did and they're the ones who pay his tuition.

 

[Doom972]

That's muslims in Europe for you. Civilized countries allow them to protest as a form of freedom of speech, and they use that right to demand censorship and an end to democracy.

I think I'll go watch this thing and see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

For a person with such a strong opinion on the subject, you seem to know little about it.

On the blowing themselves up... Bombs are fairly recent things, but you'll still find plenty of examples of christians doing it throughout history. Wikipedia alone has a string of fairly famous occurrences. The assassination of russian Tsar Alexander II is a specially cool example. Read through lists like these, and you'll find examples from all major cultures and religions, making it almost seem like this thing, like so many other things is kind of universal.

Alexander II was assassinated via explosives, not suicide bomb. The assassins threw the explosives at his carriage. One of them died, sure, but that was inadvertent.

A more recent example for you, though, would be the IRA, who were definitely founded with religious goals in mind, and were essentially the face of terrorist bombings until the late 80s.

As for killing young women. You may have heard of the inquisition,

The tales of which were, oddly enough, greatly exaggerated. Most of those 'medieval' torture devices you see attributed to inquisitors were fabricated in the past century and a half to be used as tourist attractions. Inquisitors weren't very nice, sure, but they were more a combination of auditor, detective, and commissar than anything else.

and the salem witch trials, or of any other witch hunt down the religion's history,

Yes...but in that case, world powers genuinely believed that witchcraft was a very real and very dangerous thing. Great Britain even passed a law in the 1700s making witchcraft or sorcery punishable by death. They were less worried about women gaining social mobility and more about them summoning real, non-metaphorical demons to devour their souls.

or the conquest of the americas,

Actually, that wasn't really religion's fault. When the Spanish met with the Tlaxcala (an enemy of the Aztecs), they had no problem whatsoever with adopting 'Dios' into their religious pantheon, and the Spanish didn't mind them keeping their temples. And when they fought groups like the Aztecs, Spanish troops were more worried about the concrete-and-actually-real stuff like cutting the hearts out of POWs than the fact that the Aztecs thought Quetzalcoatl would drive the Spanish back with the fury of the sun.

or the sacking of jerusalem,

In a hilarious-in-hindsight sort of way, the Crusades actually tended to veer violently from the Vatican's set goals from the third Crusade onward. Pope Innocent actually excomunicated the entire army during the 4th Crusade when he found out they'd sacked a Christian city. And not a Catholic city, either.

or the religious justifications for the second wave of colonialism... List goes on. Religious justification for killing young women found in all of them. But damn, that is a specific thing you picked there, huh?

It was a specific one from not even a month ago. All the examples you gave are centuries old, friend. Most groups, whether they're nations, organized religions, or whatever, have things they're not proud of in their history, but the important thing is growing beyond it.

The example he gave was a 14 year old girl, writing on the internet about how women deserved education. And for this, one of the most well-known terrorist groups on Earth hunted her down and shot her in the head.

On the bit about "not giving anything to the world"... You may want to think twice. The symbols you used to write that "14" on your message is arabic in origin. In fact, a disturbing volume of knowledge, science and culture in the world can be tracked to the arabic, muslim world, who kept culture alive while the christian nations were happily butchering each other.

I'll happily agree with you on everything up until the sweeping "Christians were just a bunch of bloodthirsty barbarians" part at the end.

The muslim world brought us startling examples of religious acceptance (such as the Ottoman Millet system), and was for a very long time the most fertile, most liberal and most rich breeding ground for new ideas both practical and philosophical.

Yes...but what matters more? A nation's past, or a nation's present? The Vatican declared bloody wars centuries ago, but it doesn't any more. Old Muslim empires may have been exceptionally tolerant of other faiths centuries ago, but it seems like Islam has been becoming steadily more splintered in recent years.

What I am trying to point out is that we in "The West" generally lack the cultural repertoire to adequately understand the Qur'an, especially if we do not seek secondary sources for explanation.

If you give a copy of Harry Potter to a sentinel islander (Assuming it was translated into his language, by some miracle), he will be at least as bewildered by it as you are about the Qur'an, and he will derive as much understanding as you did. Not much.

Did...did you just compare the entire Western hemisphere's ability to understand Islam to the ability of a group who can literally and without hyperbole be called 'bloodthirsty savages' to understand a work of young adult fiction?

And aside from that, I'm worried that your point here is, "If you had the cultural background to understand Islam, you'd know why some people follow it and decide to try and murder teenage girls for wanting an education."