Muslim Should Not Equal Villain

[Geekmaster]

maybe if moderate muslims took a more front and center position against extremists, and took back your religion from facists that seek to define it and jihad as some war against non believers, instead of the internal struggle with faith.

back when christianity was putting philosophers and scientists and jews to death as evil and non believers. islam welcomed science and other faiths.

sure does not help the islamic cause when chrisitans on one hand are often ridiculed and made the but of jokes and downright belittlement they take more or less with a grain of salt. but south park dares use the name and "image" of muhammid and they get death threats pouring in so they have to bleep even the name.

islam can be a beautiful religion and people that follow it can be caring generous and accepting even of non believers, but far too often do the vocal minority of the extremists rise to the top and belittle the rest of you.

I agree with everything but the "islam can be a beautiful religion" part but that's because I can't stand religion in general.

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

It dosen't help that most of the muslim world considers music unsuitable for muslims nevermind videogames.

This just plain isn't true. I think claims like these are part of the problem that crops up when the US media basically resorts to a fundamentalists = most Muslims equation. Type in "Arabic music" in google and you get literally millions of hits. "Pakistani music" gives you hundreds of thousands. Yes, like with every religion, there are a handful of jerkoffs who try to tell people not to have a good time, but they're not anything like 'most' of the Muslim world -- they're not even a sizable minority.

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

You know what else is funny about Jafar?

He's got an English accent. Frankly it's like England exists only to voice villains.

I don't mind too much because Jafar is awesome but bear in mind there's another racial stereotype at work there.

Yeah, a posh English accent in an American cartoon pretty much = loves to torture puppies (or, perhaps, have a manservant torture puppies) while calmly sipping tea.

 

[Jkudo]

Yea we probably wouldnt hear what the civilians of arab nations are saying right now. There are muslim soldiers in many armies, and they have fought in many wars for there country.

Ummm... you do realize that there are such things as Middle East correspondents, right? News agencies have them all over the Muslim world, and they routinely cover major public movements there. Unsurprisingly, most of what they cover are the near-constant anti-Western protests that pop up all over the Muslim world when even the slightestest whiff of Islamic blasphemy comes from the West.

This only further proves my point. To many Westerners, the Middle East is a a land where religious maniacs are tolerated or even aided and abetted by the general population. If such a stereotype were to be broken over there, those same massive protests that Muslims are all-too-capable of should be directed at the extremist groups, not the West. If they demonstrated this, I could see a developer making a "Saboteur"-esque game where a Muslim city that has been taken over by terrorists wages guerilla war against them, for example.

One more point: Muslim terrorists have taken their place next to Nazis and Soviets as the guilt-free enemies of viedogames. there's no denying that, so why should the article whine about the fact that they just happen to be Muslim? If South American terrorist organizations had murdered 3000 Americans on September 11, the US army would probably be in Ecuador right now. Religion really has nothing to do with it. Westerners might be repulsed by aspects of Islam, but we are not in the Middle East because of it.

Sorry i almost forgot. There are Afghani soldiers fighting right alongside american soldiers, it was on 60 min actually. Even with middle eastern correspondents how often do you hear from the civilians in the area? I for one would like too. Also maybe the cover the flag burning cuz it would be bad depict the people you will eventually be at war with as anything other than maniacs. You are right about how many westerners see the middle east though, but thats not because muslims arent marching in the street in america about how bad extremists are. Why isnt everyone else marching in the streets about how bad terrorists are? Why should muslims in another part of the world be expected to defend there religion based on what some extremists did? Every time an abortion clinic is bombed are Christians expected to speak out against them? I dont think so, i think for the most part we just talk about how crazy those specific people are.
its because that is the main depiction of Arab people. The article isn't really whining about it. It's really about how most Arabs are portrayed and the context. It isnt because he wants to see terrorist that aren't Arab or Muslim its that he would like to see Arab or Muslims that arent always terrorist getting shot at.

 

[Jkudo]

ignore this

 

[Forgetitnow344]

While I see that Saladin is actually sort of exaggerating the effect of fictional media on the current reputation of Muslims and Arabs, I can definitely see where he is coming from.

Last year, I took two semesters of Arabic at my college, and it actually had an effect on more than just my linguistic skills. I got an inside point of view on the experience of Arabs living in America. I'd actually say Arab immigrants are some of my favorites. They balance a love of their own culture with a seething love for America very well, unlike a lot of others I've seen who will either shit on their own country or mine. A lot of them would speak about the trouble they had with fitting in around people who weren't Arab themselves. Basically, have you seen the movie Amreeka? It's extremely accurate - Americans are ridiculously prejudiced against Arabs.

Hell, I got to experience it firsthand! After I told my coworkers I was learning Arabic, they started calling me Akbar and asking me to blow up the store on their day off. At first I took it in good humor, but it gets old after six months of five days a week. While I was getting to know a culture better and beginning to fully understand their current struggle, I was also being taunted for merely trying to learn about them. Hell, my own Grandfather scoffed and scolded me for wanting to "hang out with A-hab the A-rab" when I told him I wanted to do a Summer program in Egypt. Then things got stupid. I am white, which is very apparent to anyone who sees me; however, I am rather hairy and the hair is dark. A couple of months ago, I grew a beard. It isn't dirty, scruffy, or unkempt, but people started referring to me as a "terrorist." As someone who has studied and embraced my country's history and foundation, I was extremely offended that someone would even insinuate that I would be such a thing. Why was I being taunted? For trying to understand a different culture. Why is the common person so ignorant that this can be an acceptable reason for teasing to the point of actual insult?

I think if you're going to target the media, you should target terrible comedians like Jeff Dunham. His Dead Terrorist puppet is ridiculous and for some reason, all it does is fuel the ALALALALABOOM point of view people have of Arabs here.

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

It is this sort of spirit that's on display in many videogames: Muslims are villainous killers whose only purpose is to serve as bullet sponges. Like Indians in a 1950s Western, the Arabs of these games are swarthy, savage, bloodthirsty madmen who gibber incoherently at the hero as they try to mow him down. There's only one sane way to deal with such a threat - blow 'em all to Kingdom Come. And that's just what we are encouraged to do in games like Metal Slug 2, Full Spectrum Warrior, Desert Strike, Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell, America's Army, and so on.

Full Spectrum Warrior? You mean the game that was basically an Army training sim and had no story and no characterization of any kind whatsoever? Or America's Army, a multiplayer military sim? What do you want, the terrorists to run up to the player and try to hug him? For them to shout out their life stories in english during the firefight?

This is why people don't take this garbage seriously. Any dipiction of any muslim as a villian must be accompanied by an extensive justification where it turns out, that, no, he's really the good guy, and it's the evil American pig-dogs that are the real monsters! Every representation of any muslim as a villiam, or even the implication that real-world terrorists might actually be wrong, is an immediate statement that every muslim everywhere is a froathing-at-the-mouth pscycho. Context can go screw itself and realism is just a tool of the imperialists!

I think you're going pretty far afield of my actual words here. As others seem to have picked up on, I'm not saying we shouldn't ever have Muslim villains in videogames. I didn't sya a thing about real-world terrorism in the article. But if ALL we have is 2-dimensional portrayals of what is, in real life, a complex conflict, then we end up ignoring the context you're supposedly interested in. There's room for more nuance in games, and saying so isn't the same as saying "it's the evil American pig-dogs that are the real monsters!" In a recent interview with actual US military guys about the 'play as the Taliban' multiplayer option in the new Medal of Honor title, one soldier said:

"Games such as MW2 teach the player that it is heroic to play as a nearly invincible shooting machine mowing down brown-skinned people who spout off culturally stereotypical platitudes and die in droves before the player's corporately licensed wrath (i.e. the weapons actually having the correct names such as M4A1, Spectre Gunships, and wearing copywritten ACU patterns). Portraying the conflicts in such a manner cheapens the deaths of all those who have died on both sides of the conflicts."

 

[bojac6]

3) A number of comments seem to basically start 'Well, until muslims stand up and refute the extremists...' So let me ask you: if you're white, do you feel the need to constantly apologize for the actions of the KKK? If you're Christian, do you feel the need to constantly apologize for the nutjobs that bomb abortion clinics? If you're American, do you feel the need to constantly apologize for the actions of a few soldiers at Abu Ghraib? Probably not. (See http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2010/08/please-forgive-me-for-the-actions-of-extremists-i-have-never-met-who-commit-acts-of-violence-that-i-.html)

We didn't just write an article complaining about how the KKK is always portrayed as villains instead of being shown as sympathetic, nuanced human beings.

You're asking for it both ways. You don't want to disown muslim extremists and admit that they are the bad guys, but you don't want to be assocaited with them either.

No, that's not at all what's going on here. The analogous situation would be if we wrote an article complaining about how all Christians are always portrayed as KKK members who bomb abortion clinics instead of being portrayed as sympathetic nuanced human beings. At no point did he say a game should be made showing the Taliban or Al-Qaeda as sympathetic. He said Muslims. Those are not synonymous.

He has disowned Muslim extremists, his article is about the fact that there are tons of Muslims who are not extremists, they just are never represented in media. He just doesn't want to begin every sentence with the statement "I'm a Muslim, but I'm not a terrorist and I don't support terrorism and I don't think those people really are Muslims, so with that in mind, here is my point" just like Christians don't want to start every sentence with "I'm a Christian, but I'm not a member of the KKK, I don't think the world is only 6,000 years old, I don't think Harry Potter is devil worship and intrinsically evil, or that gays, disobedient wives, and pagans should be killed."

Please try to think through how the analogy works, you're coming across as a bigot that can't separate "Muslim" from "Terrorist," when those terms are not inherently connected. Most Muslims are not terrorists and most terrorists are not Muslim.

 

[Spinozaad]

While I think that Orientalist (in the Saidian sense) tendencies are at work in videogames (because, let's face it, you can't expect western culture to escape 2500 years of cultural tradition), you are being unfair towards America's Army.

The OPFOR (note how they are called 'Opposing Forces' and not 'Muslim Terrorists') are indeed armed with AK-47's and rocket launchers, but they are as faceless and backgroundless as the American soldier you control. The assumption that they are muslim might be correct, but the suggestion that this inherently portrays islam as the enemy is ridiculous.

Also, you can play as a "muslim" in quite a number of maps.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

KKK isnt a religion with quite a bit of people belonging to it.

The KKK is a religious organization, just as the Taliban and various islamic terrorist groups. Also, it's Saladin's analogy.

Also there would be an issue of the only depiction of white people where in white sheets getting shot at.

White people are the villians just as often as any other race.

 

[The_Emperor]

I agree that Aladdin is terribly racist.

Making a realistic game means casting an enemy that is/has been fought in a real war, IE russians/germans/japanese/arabs and a popular war that people of heard of, think about or whatever. None of the games you have mentioned defame muslims in any way they merely depict fact, Western forces are fighting Middle Eastern forces.

It just so happens that most modern games are made in America so you play from their viewpoint.

Again this article tries to fit an extremely complex issue of the islamophobic tendencies of a minority of dicks into the context of videogames and it doesn't work because gamers aren't logging on going "yeah im going to shoot me some muslims" they are logging on saying "yeah I'm going to kick some ass"

Islamophobia does exist and is terrible, I hate it, there was a rumour in England that England flags were banned during the world cup incase it offended muslims, A complete fabrication by a tabloid newspaper, I was infuriated at the ignorance and hate speech that ensued by ignorant xenophobic uneducated zealots raging against the Political Correctness camp over something made up, even after it was confirmed to be a hoax.

This does not mean that the game devs are thinking "mwahahaha now to convince the american people that muslims are evil! mwahahaha!"

They are simply a plausible opponent. Trying to cram the race debacle into videogames without first thinking about context is silly.

 

[Saladin Ahmed]

You know, I'm currently reading The Arabian Nights as translated by Husain Haddawy, while the morals on display are certainly a little...outdated, (see: King Shayrayar and King Shahzaman killing their wives for cheating on them, and then being forced to have sex with the wife of a demon...yeah, which of course is only the prologue, and starts off Shayrayar's subsequent new wife killings and meeting Shahrazad. Fun stuff though.) it'd certainly be something fascinating to tap into and make a videogame out of, maybe a RPG?

Okay..maybe not the best source to get a 'good' Arab character out of

Yeah, Haddaway's translation is top-notch. And I would freaking LOVE a good Bioware or Bethesda-ish Arabian Nights RPG. One where you had the option to act heroically or villainously or a mix of both.

 

[darth gditch]

3) A number of comments seem to basically start 'Well, until muslims stand up and refute the extremists...' So let me ask you: if you're white, do you feel the need to constantly apologize for the actions of the KKK? If you're Christian, do you feel the need to constantly apologize for the nutjobs that bomb abortion clinics? If you're American, do you feel the need to constantly apologize for the actions of a few soldiers at Abu Ghraib? Probably not. (See http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2010/08/please-forgive-me-for-the-actions-of-extremists-i-have-never-met-who-commit-acts-of-violence-that-i-.html)

We didn't just write an article complaining about how the KKK is always portrayed as villains instead of being shown as sympathetic, nuanced human beings.

You're asking for it both ways. You don't want to disown muslim extremists and admit that they are the bad guys, but you don't want to be assocaited with them either.

No, but you did just comment on it. Thus you might have well have written an article complaining about how minorities are always complaining about being oppressed or misrepresented.

OT: While I do think that there is a lot of stereotyping in video games, hell, media in general, but I also believe that this is the nature of the beast. For good or ill, we humans seem to derive entertainment from such scenarios as blowing terrorists to hell. It seems radical middle eastern men are just the current flavor of the day. I don't think this is intended to insult. Because quite frankly, you can find racism EVERYWHERE if you try. Even when there isn't any. You make an excellent point, but personally, I do not believe that the stereotyping is an attack on Muslims, I think it is filling the eternal "bad guy" role for this current iteration of games. For good or ill.

 

[Jkudo]

KKK isnt a religion with quite a bit of people belonging to it.

The KKK is a religious organization, just as the Taliban and various islamic terrorist groups. Also, it's Saladin's analogy.

Also there would be an issue of the only depiction of white people where in white sheets getting shot at.

White people are the villians just as often as any other race.

Sorry i erased what i posted once someone else had already responded to it. The last thing i said was a hypothetical. Obviously thats not how things are, but there would be a problem if that was the only depiction of white people. Yea the KKK is a religious organization you're right about that but its still not a religion. Yes its true that in most video games you are not being told to shoot at Muslims you are being to shoot at terrorist that are clearly Arab. The author is both muslim and arab so if thats the main depiction of arab people, that bothers him as well. What i'm saying is that the article is about race as well.

 

[Zhukov]

That was an interesting article. Thanks.

...

Also, Saladin is an awesome name.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

No, that's not at all what's going on here. The analogous situation would be if we wrote an article complaining about how all Christians are always portrayed as KKK members who bomb abortion clinics instead of being portrayed as sympathetic nuanced human beings. At no point did he say a game should be made showing the Taliban or Al-Qaeda as sympathetic. He said Muslims. Those are not synonymous.

The games he's complaing about are explicitly about fighting organizations like the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. They're not about going up to a bunch of random muslims and starting a fight. If anyone here is treating them as synonymous, it's him.

Moreover, think about your own analogy a little bit: If somebody made a game about fighting the KKK, would it be reasonable for me to write an article about how it portrays all Christians as KKK members?

He has disowned Muslim extremists, his article is about the fact that there are tons of Muslims who are not extremists, they just are never represented in media. He just doesn't want to begin every sentence with the statement "I'm a Muslim, but I'm not a terrorist and I don't support terrorism and I don't think those people really are Muslims, so with that in mind, here is my point" just like Christians don't want to start every sentence with "I'm a Christian, but I'm not a member of the KKK, I don't think the world is only 6,000 years old, I don't think Harry Potter is devil worship and intrinsically evil, or that gays, disobedient wives, and pagans should be killed."

The problem is that he's claiming to disown them in one breath then complain about them being portrayed as villians in the next. Is it ok for the Taliban to be villians or not? If not, why not?

Please try to think through how the analogy works, you're coming across as a bigot that can't separate "Muslim" from "Terrorist," when those terms are not inherently connected. Most Muslims are not terrorists and most terrorists are not Muslim.

I've put more thought into this than you have. Please refrain from namecalling.

 

[Keepitclean]

As a Russian, I can only give you the following advice. Those are games. They depict bad guys. Every community has bad guys. If you know that your community has the same percentage of them as other ones, why should fiction bother you?

And this type of media is primarily for entertainment. Not to get some kind of message across.