My beef with piracy.

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bloodychimp

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I could go into a big discussion about how DRM sucks and the industry needs to evolve with the times, and how the entire concept of a record company was antiquated around the time the internet became popular, but I'm tired so let me say this...

If stealing a car was as easy as stealing a CD, there would be a Ferrari in my driveway.
 

Double A

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infinity_turtles said:
Double A said:
infinity_turtles said:
How about this justification:

Libraries are places that host other people's intellectual property that you can view for free while the creator makes no money off of it, whether you enjoy it or not.

Torrent sites are places that host other people's intellectual property that you can view for free while the creator makes no money off of it, whether you enjoy it or not.

There are only three real differences; amount of content, ease of access, social acceptance.
Ah, but someone actually paid for the books, no one ever pays for the pirated game or movie.
The person who uploaded it did.

And now I'm off for the night.
DAMN YOU VADER!

Ok, BUT more books are bought and put in libraries than games are bought and uploaded.
 

8bitmaster

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I really don't pirate quite as much as I used to. Steam has made things a lot more accessible, in fact I have 99 games on steam as of right.... now. I pirate the games I am on the fence about, and there are still companies that I support that I will always buy. For example, I will always pay for a blizzard game unless they end up falling to activision's subscription plan, I will also always buy valve's games. There are always companies I will always buy the game, but there are those that I did want but will refuse to buy due to the fail of drm (im looking at you ubisoft with assassin's creed 2) but if I have the money and want the game bad enough, I will pay full price. It is mainly about availability, but I do buy a good portion of my games.
 

Chunko

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Name99 said:
Chunko said:
Another thing that I'd just like to say:

You know that 30+ minutes of DRM we have to put up with before we start playing any game. We have pirates to thank for that. Their selfish nature is not only killing the gaming economy but also giving us ridiculous amounts of DRM to wade through. Developers now don't have a choice. Pirates are creating an environment in which maximum profits come from Ubisoft DRM-ing us to death while the Humble Indie Bundle still gets pirated even though it's being offered for free.
?? You think that pirates are to blame for the entertainment industry's overreaction? The 30+ minutes of DRM was Ubisoft's retarded idea for stopping pirates. It did not end up with maximum profits.

The industry's 'selfish nature' is what is causing inconveniences for legitimate gamers - they were the ones that put DRM on their products in the attempt to squeeze out some sales from would-be pirates, regardless of the convenience of use.
hmmmmm.... the industry is selfish...

[small] someone doesn't know how economics work [/small]

Speaking of selfish games are a luxury, you don't need games to survive. If you're taking them without paying you're being selfish.
 

Chunko

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slopeslider said:
Chunko said:
Another thing that I'd just like to say:

You know that 30+ minutes of DRM we have to put up with before we start playing any game. We have pirates to thank for that. Their selfish nature is not only killing the gaming economy but also giving us ridiculous amounts of DRM to wade through. Developers now don't have a choice. Pirates are creating an environment in which maximum profits come from Ubisoft DRM-ing us to death while the Humble Indie Bundle still gets pirated even though it's being offered for free.
PIRATES ARE UNNAFECTED BY THE DRM.
The drm is there to stop pirates.
but PIRATES ARE UNNAFECTED BY THE DRM.
I know, and we all have you to blame for this. You steal the games for your own personal enjoyment without worrying about the consequences for the honest people whom it affects.
 

Terminal Blue

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I personally feel that pirating something and never paying for it is a gesture of contempt towards the people who created it. Therefore, I feel little guilt from stealing crap, but if you care about something, be it a movie, album or whatever then treat it as worth paying for.

If you don't support innovation and genuine talent then sooner or later only brainless mass culture is going to be commercially viable. It's easy to heap scorn on record companies, for example, but they also sign up and coming bands who otherwise would never be able to afford to make a professional quality album. By voting with your wallet and buying the good stuff, you proove to those companies that they're justified in doing that. If you don't, they aren't going to bother.

If you like something and want to see more like it, pay for it. If you don't, don't. Consumer power rules.

Libraries, as far as I know, don't let you duplicate an entire book in minutes without leaving the house then keep a copy for yourself. People still pay for books because going to the library is a chore, piracy is currently not a chore.
 

bloodychimp

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evilthecat said:
I personally feel that pirating something and never paying for it is a gesture of contempt towards the people who created it. Therefore, I feel little guilt from stealing crap, but if you care about something, be it a movie, album or whatever then treat it as worth paying for.

If you don't support innovation and genuine talent then sooner or later only brainless mass culture is going to be commercially viable. It's easy to heap scorn on record companies, for example, but they also sign up and coming bands who otherwise would never be able to afford to make a professional quality album. By voting with your wallet and buying the good stuff, you proove to those companies that they're justified in doing that. If you don't, they aren't going to bother.

If you like something and want to see more like it, pay for it. If you don't, don't. Consumer power rules.

Libraries, as far as I know, don't let you duplicate an entire book in minutes without leaving the house then keep a copy for yourself. People still pay for books because going to the library is a chore, piracy is currently not a chore.
You pretty much summed up my feelings on the subject. For example, I own the six original Star Trek movies (on multiple formats) because I watch one of them pretty much every week. I love them, I want to reward the creators, and I most definitely get my money's worth. However, I refuse to pay $25-$30 for a new movie I will only ever watch once (now that Blockbuster is gone there isn't really a good place to rent movies where I live anymore). I have no compunctions about screwing over the movie studio in this situation, taking a few dollars of profit from multi-millionaires doesn't cause me to lose any sleep.

And to the guys saying piracy is causing DRM and ruining gaming: I've been an adamant gamer since I was little. I own something on the order of 300 video games on various systems (around 180 on PC alone). And I never in my life pirated a game until they started putting restrictive DRM on them (and even now I rarely pirate, I just buy games with restrictive DRM on the PC for my 360). DRM isn't a solution, it's part of the problem
 

Chunko

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bloodychimp said:
evilthecat said:
I personally feel that pirating something and never paying for it is a gesture of contempt towards the people who created it. Therefore, I feel little guilt from stealing crap, but if you care about something, be it a movie, album or whatever then treat it as worth paying for.

If you don't support innovation and genuine talent then sooner or later only brainless mass culture is going to be commercially viable. It's easy to heap scorn on record companies, for example, but they also sign up and coming bands who otherwise would never be able to afford to make a professional quality album. By voting with your wallet and buying the good stuff, you proove to those companies that they're justified in doing that. If you don't, they aren't going to bother.

If you like something and want to see more like it, pay for it. If you don't, don't. Consumer power rules.

Libraries, as far as I know, don't let you duplicate an entire book in minutes without leaving the house then keep a copy for yourself. People still pay for books because going to the library is a chore, piracy is currently not a chore.
You pretty much summed up my feelings on the subject. For example, I own the six original Star Trek movies (on multiple formats) because I watch one of them pretty much every week. I love them, I want to reward the creators, and I most definitely get my money's worth. However, I refuse to pay $25-$30 for a new movie I will only ever watch once (now that Blockbuster is gone there isn't really a good place to rent movies where I live anymore). I have no compunctions about screwing over the movie studio in this situation, taking a few dollars of profit from multi-millionaires doesn't cause me to lose any sleep.

And to the guys saying piracy is causing DRM and ruining gaming: I've been an adamant gamer since I was little. I own something on the order of 300 video games on various systems (around 180 on PC alone). And I never in my life pirated a game until they started putting restrictive DRM on them (and even now I rarely pirate, I just buy games with restrictive DRM on the PC for my 360). DRM isn't a solution, it's part of the problem
I think DRM is a problem as well, but the pirates are responsible for it not the game companies. What you're saying is a common story, DRM generates more pirates. Piracy is almost like an infection, and DRM is a symptom.
 

Worldbearer

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Okay, I've just read this entire thread and I have to say straight off, wow. There are some good arguments throughout it, and it's good to see that it's continued to stay a discussion and not just a flame-fest. Now, here's my two-cents worth.

The term "piracy" is probably a little misleading. Piracy in the general sense refers to the unlawful attainment of another individuals property/taking something from someone else/stealing. I'm sure we can all agree on this. So, when the term Piracy is applied to situations where torrents are concerned, truthfully it is probably the wrong description to use. Downloading torrented data is not stealing, it is making a copy, as has been discussed many times here. Therefore, it doesn't so much fall under Piracy as it does Copyright Infringement.

Now before someone jumps up and down, I realize the two terms have been one and the same for a long time, however, just for a minute think about the meaning of them. Piracy is bad, and has been associated with things much nastier than copying something. I have yet to hear of a case of someone committing murder, or plundering the wealth of someone (lets just ignore digital bank transfers as technically this falls under stealing, not copying) by simply copying data between drives. So, now that we've separated Piracy (stealing) from copyright infringement (copying), things become a little easier to explain.

In the case of copyright we have this: A team of developers get together and make a product, this product is then taken to a distributor and mass-produced and sold. A (for the sake of understanding) copyright pirate purchases a single unit of the product. This unit is then modified into a re-distributable digital format and uploaded onto a torrent site. At this point, copyright infringement has occurred once, as the pirate now has 2 copies of the product, one in hard format, one in digital. This digital copy represents a single POTENTIAL lost sale by the distributor. Let me clarify, the pirate has a purchased hard copy, 1 sale. The digital copy is a Potential lost sale as the pirate doesn't need to buy another hard copy.
Now, for each COPY of the torrent that is downloaded, this represents not 1 case of Stealing and 1 lost MATERIAL item, which GUARANTEES a loss of income, but 1 case of copyright infringement and 1 POTENTIAL lost sale, which represents a POTENTIAL loss of income.

The point I'm trying to make here is the difference between stealing and copying. Stealing is guaranteed to cause a loss to the IP owner, copying on the other hand is a potential loss to the IP owner. Don't get me wrong, the threat of loss due to copying is still there, but it's not guaranteed. There is the exception where media is copied and then sold to make a profit, in this case IT IS STEALING, similar in the way plagiarism is: in this case you have basically plagiarized anothers work in order to suit your own ends and each unit sold DOES represent a loss to the original developer, you all have to see the sense in this at least right?

Now, there is an upside to the free re-distribution of copied items. Take Anime for instance: the original owners of the works are aware of the community of Fansubbers and dojinshi artists and what they do, but they are fine with it as it promotes interest in their work and creates a larger community. Now let me closer relate this to games: I know the first copied game I played was a standalone version of Starcraft, which I was introduced to by a friend, and it's a game I've continued to enjoy for many years. When the announcement for Starcraft 2 came out, I was all over it - legitimately (pre-ordered). Why? Because of my experience with the first game: I enjoyed the series, and I wanted to support the development of future titles, so I set out to do just that. And you know what? It was because of that very experience that I promoted the game to MY friends, encouraged them to join the community, to purchase it and help keep the ball rolling. Interest breeds interest; pretty soon it's spreading like wildfire, and something that might have fallen into obscurity can be brought into the spotlight. This can be both good and bad, and really it depends on the type of person you are.

Personally, I feel that when you purchase a game based on reviews/word-of-mouth/shiny images/or just plain whim your taking a gamble with your money. It may turn out to be an absolute gem of a program worth every cent, or a complete piece of trash designed solely to squeeze your cash. If I download a copy of a game and enjoy it, I will pay for it and promote it. Why? because it's worth the money and the time (potentially lost sale ---> a definite sale). If I don't enjoy it, it gets erased and never spoken of again (potentially lost sale ---> no lost sale). As you can see this is what I support: If you like it, buy it, and if not, get rid of it.

One major thing in my argument I must point out is that this is coming from someone who has the privilege of buying stuff, and I'm sure this applies to most people here as well. I did read in an Escapist article about the copying of media in countries who DON'T have that privilege. In this case, I don't believe anyone aside from those living there have the right to condemn media piracy in the third-world.

This has been a long post and my eyes are starting to blur, so if it makes little sense in sections, please excuse me. One final thing though, I must say that I completely support the idea of Free-2-Play games like League of Legends, where the standard gameplay is solid and completely standalone, but should you want more content you pay for it (facebook games don't count, they're money-sinks). This is a genius way to help lower copyright infringement as there is no need to buy the game, its already free.

Well I think that's everything, so in short: Piracy is stealing, Downloading torrents is Copyright Infringement, Stealing is bad, CI is a possibility for bad, If you like it then buy it, if not then lose it, and good quality Free2Play games are a better DRM concept. Ummm, yeah hope this sparks some thought (and maybe this was more than 2 cents worth...).
 

TheTurtleMan

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infinity_turtles said:
How about this justification:

Libraries are places that host other people's intellectual property that you can view for free while the creator makes no money off of it, whether you enjoy it or not.

Torrent sites are places that host other people's intellectual property that you can view for free while the creator makes no money off of it, whether you enjoy it or not.

There are only three real differences; amount of content, ease of access, social acceptance.
I'd say that's completely different because with a library you can think of it as one person buying the book in some way and then passing it on to the next person who wants it. With piracy it's just a database of games that haven't been purchased that thousands of people can have at the same time for as long as they want. Try to imagine a library where they give illegal book copies to everyone for no charge to keep as long as you want. Piracy has the same basic principles of this fake library.
 

Katnap_Devikat

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I use torrent sites to download Steam Backups (the backup disks), this is because Steam likes to cap my download speed at 300kbps, whereas i can get 900kbps from a torrent site. I actually pay for the game, i just don't want to wait several hours longer then i have to get it.
 

Pegghead

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True, while I'm against piracy of material that's pretty much hot off the shelves and/or easy to get a hold of I have pirated a couple of games in the past (Specifically system shock 2 and road to fiddlers green, also Grim Fandango but it was always bugging out) because they were impossible to get a hold of under my circumstances , but if a magical time-travelling games salesman had offered to sell them to me for a reasonable price with the box, manual and disc you get when buying legally I would have paid for them.
 

Winter Rat

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If I pirate a music cd, I have not stolen it. I have copied it illegally. I have not taken a product which then cannot be sold to another. I have reproduced it illegally, a copyright infringement.

And why must I give money to the music industry parasites? Veeery little of the money from a cd actually goes to the artists and engineers who produced the work. Most of it goes to a billion middlemen who are making money selling outmoded technology. Technology has advanced to the point where I can produce and distribute hundreds of copies of an album with virtually no effort, how is it they want to charge me $14 for a non-durable disc I do not want, when I could get a pre-converted mp3 or even FLAC of the music made virtually for free? They are simply not charging what the product is worth.

The record companies and the distribution companies are all just middlemen hanging on for dear life to an industry that shouldn't exist any longer, much like the scrivener was made obsolete by movable type. Why should artists enter into recording contracts which curtail their artistic freedom and likely will not yield them much profit, the lion's share going to people who push papers across a desk?

Protools is so cheap now you can record your album at home, promote yourself on the internet and distribute your work on the net. Artists make their money live anyway, the RIAA can die. I pirate because I want that parasitic industry to die and stop fighting the future, a future where they don't exist.
 

AWAR

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Whatevah girlfriend, as long as I have the choice to pay or not to pay I go with the second. If you feel like spending money be my guest.
 
Apr 29, 2010
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Everyone does it? I'm sorry, but that is just the stupidest thing I read in the OP. Why would anyone think everyone pirates? It's just absurd to think something like that.

Anyways, we know piracy is illegal. We can discuss it all we want, pass a dozen laws, arrest some people, but in the end, will that stop anything? No, because there will still be people who pirate. It's a sad, but true, fact of life.